Victor Martinez Re-signs with Tigers

[Eminor3rd]

I would guess the Royals aren't willing to spend that kind of money, whether he fits their roster or not.

 

Cot's only shows them with $50m in commitments next year though. Assuming Butler and Shields walk, you can bet they'll be spending SOMEwhere. And as an elite defensive team, upgrading at DH actually makes a ton of sense, as it doesn't replace any of the defenders.

[southsider2k5]

I stumbled across an article yesterday that speculated Seattle does have room in the payroll for VMart. I have no idea if that's true or not but it could make sense.

 

I'm guessing VMart lands in KC.

 

They are going to have pressure to go after a starting pitcher, whether it be Shields or someone else.

[BlackSox13]

I would guess the Royals aren't willing to spend that kind of money, whether he fits their roster or not.

The Royals were a few timely hits away from being WS champs. Victor's bat easily makes up the difference and as I said, the Royals have the money to afford Victor and I'd bet the desire seeing as how close they were.

[LDF]

They are going to have pressure to go after a starting pitcher, whether it be Shields or someone else.

 

 

I think the sox has 1 or 2 they can give them

 

Danks and E Johnson.

[BlackSox13]

They are going to have pressure to go after a starting pitcher, whether it be Shields or someone else.

I believe Caulfield has pointed this out already but the Royals likely go with Finnegan since he was drafted a starter anyway. Now he won't replace Shields' innings but Finnegan is going to be a starter and seeing as how he performed pretty well, I'd say he gets his chance in 2015.

 

Finnegan makes it easier for the Royals to move on from Shields.

[shysocks]

The Royals were a few timely hits away from being WS champs. Victor's bat easily makes up the difference and as I said, the Royals have the money to afford Victor and I'd bet the desire seeing as how close they were.

They were also a few timely outs away from being just another forgettable wild card team, though I understand your point about their advancement through the playoffs motivating spending.

 

My gut is just that they aren't going to be buying any of the premium free agents. Not to mention that the org has often pointed out how the team is built around defense - allocating 20% or more of their annual payroll on a DH is contrary to that.

 

I am not arguing he wouldn't be a good pickup for them though.

[Dick Allen]

Why is Victor Martinez perfect for the Royals, but for the White Sox he would be nothing but a bad contract?

[shysocks]

Why is Victor Martinez perfect for the Royals, but for the White Sox he would be nothing but a bad contract?

That seems fairly obvious - the Sox aren't primed to be contenders next year when VMart would be most likely to earn his money, and he'd be declining and potentially done when the team was ready to compete. The Royals are at a different point on the win curve and an upgrade in 2015 could make the contract worth it despite the decline years.

 

Let's save the rehashing of whether or not old guys decline and which ones do or don't for another time. Whether or not you agree with the above, that's the reasoning.

[Dick Allen]

That seems fairly obvious - the Sox aren't primed to be contenders next year when VMart would be most likely to earn his money, and he'd be declining and potentially done when the team was ready to compete. The Royals are at a different point on the win curve and an upgrade in 2015 could make the contract worth it despite the decline years.

 

Let's save the rehashing of whether or not old guys decline and which ones do or don't for another time. Whether or not you agree with the above, that's the reasoning.

Why can't the White Sox be contenders next year?

 

The anti Victors are saying his production will not match the contract. That isn't a perfect fit anywhere. If you think Victor can hit, he would be good for the White Sox. If you think he isn't good for the White Sox, he isn't good for a team with less revenue.

 

I don't understand the reasoning of Victor being an upgrade over Butler, but posters actually preferring Butler over Victor for the White Sox.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Dick Allen

[caulfield12]

They are going to have pressure to go after a starting pitcher, whether it be Shields or someone else.

 

 

WHY?

 

They have Ventura/Duffy as co #1's going into the season, then Guthrie and Vargas for the back end.

 

It would be like assuming the White Sox would need a pitcher when they only have one rotation hole, when in reality there are probably two more(depending on your feelings regarding Danks and Noesi) and that's IF Rodon makes it in 2015.

 

 

Ventura

Duffy

Finnegan (the Royals see him exactly as the White Sox view Rodon)

Vargas

Guthrie

 

Kyle Zimmer (depending on health, was pulled from AFL)

Sean Manaea

Liam Hendricks

Lamb

Binford

 

If they're going to make ANY move in their rotation, it's for a one year veteran "placeholder" to have as additional insurance for Finnegan, but I'm not even convinced 100% they will go that route.

 

They might even look at Aaron Crow as a possibility, although it's a longshot....

 

 

The Royals have DH and RF (do they add another big name or platoon Dyson with someone?), and the only other starting position that's open for debate about changing is 2B with Omar Infante, but they absolutely don't HAVE to get rid of him, either.

 

So you're telling me if the White Sox had THREE high draft picks all close to ready for the majors....and there was only ONE available spot in the rotation, and then you had three or four other realistic possibilities in Hendricks, Lamb, Binford and Aaron Crow, that you'd STILL pull the trigger on expensive/overpaid veteran starting pitchers in the McCarthy/AJ Burnett/Peavy/Volquez/Hammel/Vogelsong/Masterson/Kuroda, etc., tier????

 

Even with the injury to Zimmer, I think a big-time pitching move is highly unlikely.

Edited November 4, 2014 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

WHY?

 

They have Ventura/Duffy as co #1's going into the season, then Guthrie and Vargas for the back end.

 

It would be like assuming the White Sox would need a pitcher when they only have one rotation hole, when in reality there are probably two more(depending on your feelings regarding Danks and Noesi) and that's IF Rodon makes it in 2015.

 

 

Ventura

Duffy

Finnegan (the Royals see him exactly as the White Sox view Rodon)

Vargas

Guthrie

 

Kyle Zimmer (depending on health, was pulled from AFL)

Sean Manaea

Liam Hendricks

Lamb

Binford

 

If they're going to make ANY move in their rotation, it's for a one year veteran "placeholder" to have as additional insurance for Finnegan, but I'm not even convinced 100% they will go that route.

 

They might even look at Aaron Crow as a possibility, although it's a longshot....

 

 

The Royals have DH and RF (do they add another big name or platoon Dyson with someone?), and the only other starting position that's open for debate about changing is 2B with Omar Infante, but they don't HAVE to get rid of him, either.

 

So you're telling me if the White Sox had THREE high draft picks all close to ready for the majors....and there was only ONE available spot in the rotation, and then you had three or four other realistic possibilities in Hendricks, Lamb, Binford and Aaron Crow, that you'd STILL pull the trigger on expensive/overpaid veteran starting pitchers in the Peavy/Volquez/Hammel/Vogelsong, etc., tier????

 

Even with the injury to Zimmer, I think a big-time pitching move is highly unlikely.

 

World Series teams don't go into seasons with that many question marks on their team.

[Dick Allen]

WHY?

 

They have Ventura/Duffy as co #1's going into the season, then Guthrie and Vargas for the back end.

 

It would be like assuming the White Sox would need a pitcher when they only have one rotation hole, when in reality there are probably two more(depending on your feelings regarding Danks and Noesi) and that's IF Rodon makes it in 2015.

 

 

Ventura

Duffy

Finnegan (the Royals see him exactly as the White Sox view Rodon)

Vargas

Guthrie

 

Kyle Zimmer (depending on health, was pulled from AFL)

Sean Manaea

Liam Hendricks

Lamb

Binford

 

If they're going to make ANY move in their rotation, it's for a one year veteran "placeholder" to have as additional insurance for Finnegan, but I'm not even convinced 100% they will go that route.

 

They might even look at Aaron Crow as a possibility, although it's a longshot....

 

 

The Royals have DH and RF (do they add another big name or platoon Dyson with someone?), and the only other starting position that's open for debate about changing is 2B with Omar Infante, but they absolutely don't HAVE to get rid of him, either.

 

So you're telling me if the White Sox had THREE high draft picks all close to ready for the majors....and there was only ONE available spot in the rotation, and then you had three or four other realistic possibilities in Hendricks, Lamb, Binford and Aaron Crow, that you'd STILL pull the trigger on expensive/overpaid veteran starting pitchers in the Peavy/Volquez/Hammel/Vogelsong, etc., tier????

 

Even with the injury to Zimmer, I think a big-time pitching move is highly unlikely.

Their bullpen is about to eat a lot of their payroll, and as bad as Shields was in the postseason, he was really good in the regular season. It is highly doubtful they can replace that, (227 IP 3.21 ERA) and this is a team that barely made the playoffs and 99% of the time would have lost the wild card game. They could be decent, but I doubt we are looking at a run Royals contention.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Dick Allen

[caulfield12]

World Series teams don't go into seasons with that many question marks on their team.

 

 

Is it really THAT difficult to replace Billy Butler's DH production and Aoki in RF when Dyson might already be better?

 

That's not a lot of question marks.

 

Imagine they add Victor Martinez and, let's say, Rasmus. That suddenly becomes a team where Omar Infante is the only "breather" in the line-up for an opposing pitcher, if you want to call him that.

 

Moustakas struggled in the regular season, but they're not going to replace him after hitting five homers and playing so well in the post-season, any more than the White Sox are going to replace Conor before 2015.

 

[caulfield12]

Their bullpen is about to eat a lot of their payroll, and as bad as Shields was in the postseason, he was really good in the regular season. It is highly doubtful they can replace that, (227 IP 3.21 ERA) and this is a team that barely made the playoffs and 99% of the time would have lost the wild card game. They could be decent, but I doubt we are looking at a run Royals contention.

 

The Giants have averaged about the same number of regular season wins (87-90) in 2010/12/14 and have three World Series championships to show for it.

 

It's simply a matter of getting there.

 

Seattle was badly fading down the stretch. It wasn't THAT close where you can say they BARELY made it.

[southsider2k5]

Is it really THAT difficult to replace Billy Butler's DH production and Aoki in RF when Dyson might already be better?

 

That's not a lot of question marks.

 

Imagine they add Victor Martinez and, let's say, Rasmus. That suddenly becomes a team where Omar Infante is the only "breather" in the line-up for an opposing pitcher, if you want to call him that.

 

Moustakas struggled in the regular season, but they're not going to replace him after hitting five homers and playing so well in the post-season, any more than the White Sox are going to replace Conor before 2015.

 

 

That rotation doesn't have questions in it? lol.

[caulfield12]

That rotation doesn't have questions in it? lol.

 

 

Is that even an argument?

 

At any rate, it's still going to have questions in it even if they idiotically re-signed Shields with 257 innings pitched and 7 or 8 years or whatever at over 200 IP (just like the 2006 White Sox starting rotation and KW discovered far too late).

 

The only ones who wouldn't lead to questions would be Scherzer and Lester...but those questions would be when those contracts would blow up in their faces.

 

Even if things go right with Rodon, the White Sox have two more huge question marks. If Finnegan pitches as expected as a starter, they will have a pretty competitive rotation, and they can reallocate Shields' money to improving their offense at DH and RF.

 

Not only that, but Aoki isn't a very good defender, so someone like Rasmus and Martinez would vastly improve their offense and defense...at two positions.

Edited November 4, 2014 by caulfield12

[shysocks]

Why can't the White Sox be contenders next year?

 

The anti Victors are saying his production will not match the contract. That isn't a perfect fit anywhere. If you think Victor can hit, he would be good for the White Sox. If you think he isn't good for the White Sox, he isn't good for a team with less revenue.

 

I don't understand the reasoning of Victor being an upgrade over Butler, but posters actually preferring Butler over Victor for the White Sox.

They can be, it's just less likely.

 

I continue to think that Victor's production will not match his contract, but if I had to pick one year of the next four where it will, it's 2015. That's the most important year for the Royals. The most important year for the Sox is 2016, or maybe later. "Bad contract for Sox = bad contract for Royals" makes sense in a vacuum, but all 30 teams are in a different situation, and I'll just say that Victor wouldn't be as bad a deal for KC.

 

And just for the record, I do not want Butler, and I do not think the Royals will sign Martinez

[caulfield12]

Other than signing Lester or Scherzer, what team in the majors is going to have the perfect rotation?

 

The Giants are probably going to lose Peavy and Vogelsong.

 

They're going to plug in the gaps with Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum, in all likelihood. Is that a surefire plan? As always, it depends on health.

 

Tim Hudson's 39 going on 40. I remember something about him being the oldest pitcher to start a Game 7.

 

Y. Petit was ONCE a top starting prospect a long time ago but he doesn't throw much harder than Dylan Axelrod.

[Dick Allen]

The Giants have averaged about the same number of regular season wins (87-90) in 2010/12/14 and have three World Series championships to show for it.

 

It's simply a matter of getting there.

 

Seattle was badly fading down the stretch. It wasn't THAT close where you can say they BARELY made it.

Don't compare the Royals with the Giants. That is beyond silly. The Royals had not "been there" in 29 years. There is no reason to think with their limited resources ( I actually read where trading Alex Gordon is a possibility) that they are the next Tampa Bay Rays. You seem to have Finnegan in the HOF already, but chances are you are more than a little overboard.

[caulfield12]

Don't compare the Royals with the Giants. That is beyond silly. The Royals had not "been there" in 29 years. There is no reason to think with their limited resources ( I actually read where trading Alex Gordon is a possibility) that they are the next Tampa Bay Rays. You seem to have Finnegan in the HOF already, but chances are you are more than a little overboard.

 

 

I'm sure more have Rodon there already.

 

They're not going to trade Alex Gordon. Who would be stupid enough to come up with that idea??? He's their franchise player right now, along with Sal Perez and Yordano Ventura.

 

 

Edited November 4, 2014 by caulfield12

[LittleHurt05]

That rotation doesn't have questions in it? lol.

 

Haven't you heard? The Royals pitching prospects are all guaranteed to immediately succeed and have zero injury risk.

[Balta1701]

Haven't you heard? The Royals pitching prospects are all guaranteed to immediately succeed and have zero injury risk.

He did have a point where he notes that people are counting on Rodon to do the same thing for us in order for the Sox to be competitive next year.

[southsider2k5]

He did have a point where he notes that people are counting on Rodon to do the same thing for us in order for the Sox to be competitive next year.

 

The difference being is that no one is talking about the White Sox as a World Series team next year, while the Royals are looking to get back there next year. Take away your ace, and that becomes incredibly harder.

[caulfield12]

Haven't you heard? The Royals pitching prospects are all guaranteed to immediately succeed and have zero injury risk.

 

 

Well, the difference is they have 6-7 options for the final spot in the rotation.

 

The White Sox have Rodon, and then:

 

Bassitt, who would actually prefer to be a reliever

Beck, who can't strike anyone out and looks to be a long man or pen piece for now

Montas, who is more likely to become closer out of necessity

Danish, who's unlikely to be in the Sox rotation plans until 2016 or 2017

 

 

Right now, it's going to be either Carroll or Bassitt unless they sign someone or make a trade.

[caulfield12]

The difference being is that no one is talking about the White Sox as a World Series team next year, while the Royals are looking to get back there next year. Take away your ace, and that becomes incredibly harder.

 

 

The Red Sox (if they spend a mint on free agents), Orioles (if they keep Cruz and Markakis and continue to improve the rotation), Angels and possibly the Tigers (depending on what happens with Victor and Scherzer) all will be favored over the Royals at the start of 2015.

 

A lot depends on Richards' time frame for the Angels...but it wouldn't be a shock to see Las Vegas betting line setters favor the Angels over the Royals even if Richards isn't projected back until mid-season.

 

 

After 29 years of drought, nobody in KC actually has the brazenness to expect the World Series again in 2015.