Samardzija Trade Packages

[caulfield12]

Heyward is still a very good player, the best defensive OF in the game.

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/pos...ype/sabermetric

 

In one key offensive category (runs created/27 outs), Heyward ranks dead last and yet he's probably going to get $90-120 next year.

That's crazy. Alex Gordon will be in line for a similar contract, with both falling in behind Upton.

 

Heyward's at 3.58. Justin Upton 7.21. Alex Gordon (another FA) 5.69.

 

Melky Cabrera's far and away the lowest for qualified corner OF'ers at 1.77 to provide some perspective.

 

 

[GreenSox]

and that is my point, the sox will have to find ways to address the lack of hitters in the system. also remember the hitter we do have, have a limited contract.

Right, but how? Free agents are over priced by a ton. The don't want to use high draft choices on hitters. Development of the ones they do have isn't going all that well. I think what they've done best is trade for major league ready prospects (Avi, Quentin, Eaton) but those trades are hard to find. You start forcing them and you fail. Had Peralta not gotten hurt they would have ended up with Middlebrooks or Bradley Jr

[LDF]

Right, but how? Free agents are over priced by a ton. The don't want to use high draft choices on hitters. Development of the ones they do have isn't going all that well. I think what they've done best is trade for major league ready prospects (Avi, Quentin, Eaton) but those trades are hard to find. You start forcing them and you fail. Had Peralta not gotten hurt they would have ended up with Middlebrooks or Bradley Jr

 

all excellent points. i will wait until day 2 is over.

 

but the sox may need to go the KW route, by overpaying in trades.

 

i have been saying this since the new yr, this yr, the int't draft yr, starting July 2, the sox needs to address 3 positions. maybe 2 if stretching it. nah 3. the closest to help will be the cuban market, let alone the cubans who are playing in Japan. since the new deal may come into effect, there are a crap load of superstars cubans who didn't want to give up their citizenship and is just crying for a sox uni......

 

then the rest of the int'l players, sign some of the top 5-10, regardless ...... they will take the longest to develop.

[GreenSox]

all excellent points. i will wait until day 2 is over.

 

but the sox may need to go the KW route, by overpaying in trades.

And that's been a sorry, failed proposition for years when trading for veterans. Not only do they overpay, what they get isn't what is advertised. And then they dump them for dimes on the dollar.

People want to pile on the prospects for Longoria or Kemp, or Zobrist or Lucroy, but those guys are no cinches to repeat performance. KW tried to load up the wagon for Erstad (before he was terrible, but he was never particularly great) foiled only by the Angels owner. Castro's hitting .681 OPS...yea, better than Flowers, but still lousy. You can't trade for lousy.

ML ready talent seems to be something they're good at identifying (not perfect, but good). Those are the kind of players I'd trade prospects for. Not "proven veterans".

 

Edited June 9, 2015 by GreenSox

[caulfield12]

And that's been a sorry, failed proposition for years when trading for veterans. Not only do they overpay, what they get isn't what is advertised.

People want to pile on the prospects for Longoria or Kemp, or Zobrist or Lucroy, but those guys are no cinches to repeat performance. KW tried to load up the wagon for Erstad (before he was terrible, but he was never particularly great) foiled only by the Angels owner.

ML ready talent seems to be something they're good at identifying, but to pry that away you need a)something to trade and b) often have to catch a team desperate.

Avi, Quentin and Eaton are good players, but we traded a good player for each (Peavy, our #1 prospect Carter, Santiago who was and is a good young pitcher). But that's fine - we overpaid for none of them, but simply traded value for value.

 

 

Because the other route is getting harder and harder, finding guys like DeAza or JD Martinez that are dumped by their organizations and in need of a change of scenery (Dominguez MIGHT be another example)...OR Alexei when there wasn't much of a track record for Cubans and many clubs still were expecting more Rey Ordonez/utility infielder types. Then we were fortunate to have a 1B opening for Abreu in a year when almost all of the other big market teams were not looking to fill that particular position.

 

Then we seemingly whiffed on the Davidson trade, and we also made numerous OTHER mistakes with 3B (Teahen, Viciedo, Keppinger, Brent Morel).

 

The margin for error is razor thin when you miss out on one or two of those trades and also end up stuck with bad contracts such as Melky Cabrera and John Danks.

Edited June 9, 2015 by caulfield12

[LDF]

And that's been a sorry, failed proposition for years when trading for veterans. Not only do they overpay, what they get isn't what is advertised.

People want to pile on the prospects for Longoria or Kemp, or Zobrist or Lucroy, but those guys are no cinches to repeat performance. KW tried to load up the wagon for Erstad (before he was terrible, but he was never particularly great) foiled only by the Angels owner.

ML ready talent seems to be something they're good at identifying, but to pry that away you need a)something to trade and b) often have to catch a team desperate.

Avi, Quentin and Eaton are good players, but we traded a good player for each (Peavy, our #1 prospect Carter, Santiago who was and is a good young pitcher). But that's fine - we overpaid for none of them, but simply traded value for value.

 

damn, you really have another excellent post. i am loving this conversation.

 

re to overpaying and what is avail.

 

i am an ranked amateur compared to the real org, but i went and soured the prospects list of those teams that may need a player for the playoff run and teams with a nice systems.

 

so if a team needs a player that the sox can help, that doesn't mean they will help in the rtn assets. so how can the sox persuade a team to help the sox, if the sox helps them.

[LDF]

Because the other route is getting harder and harder, finding guys like DeAza or JD Martinez that are dumped by their organizations and in need of a change of scenery (Dominguez MIGHT be another example)...OR Alexei when there wasn't much of a track record for Cubans and many clubs still were expecting more Rey Ordonez/utility infielder types. Then we were fortunate to have a 1B opening for Abreu in a year when almost all of the other big market teams were not looking to fill that particular position.

 

Then we seemingly whiffed on the Davidson trade, and we also made numerous OTHER mistakes with 3B (Teahen, Viciedo, Keppinger, Brent Morel).

 

The margin for error is razor thin when you miss out on one or two of those trades and also end up stuck with bad contracts such as Melky Cabrera and John Danks.

re the bold, that was the KW era.....

 

but you made a interesting point. here is the question, would the sox have signed Jose A, if the sox didn't needed a 1b???

 

now is the run on cuban players.

[GGajewski18]

I know it's still early, but Astros have lost 6 straight now. They were/are scouting Shark, wonder if they are calling Rick consistently to see what the price would be for Shark.

 

What do you guys think the price would be for the Astros to get Samardzija?

[BlackSox13]

I think the best way to look at this is what Sox prospects would fans be willing to give up for Shark and translate those prospects to the equivalent Astros prospects.

 

Would Sox fans be willing to give up any one of Adams, Montas, Danish, Anderson for 3 months of Shark?

[Quin]

I think the best way to look at this is what Sox prospects would fans be willing to give up for Shark and translate those prospects to the equivalent Astros prospects.

 

Would Sox fans be willing to give up any one of Adams, Montas, Danish, Anderson for 3 months of Shark?

 

Different teams in different situations.

 

If I were the Astros and at the deadline I desperately needed a starter to go on a WS run, yeah, I could probably be convinced to give up Adams or Danish.

[LDF]

I think the best way to look at this is what Sox prospects would fans be willing to give up for Shark and translate those prospects to the equivalent Astros prospects.

 

Would Sox fans be willing to give up any one of Adams, Montas, Danish, Anderson for 3 months of Shark?

 

there are a couple ways to think about that. esp since i am not seeing it in your post.

 

the intangibles are this, when was the last time Hou won the WS?? when was the last time Hou made it to the WS?? can Hou win it all and what is missing??

 

those question, when answered will dictate the course hou should take.

[BlackSox13]

Different teams in different situations.

 

If I were the Astros and at the deadline I desperately needed a starter to go on a WS run, yeah, I could probably be convinced to give up Adams or Danish.

Based on Samardzija's performance so far combined with being a three month rental, I could not do it. There's been no indication Samardzija will improve. I could see it if Samardzija was pitching the way he did last, but not now.

[SCCWS]

Based on Samardzija's performance so far combined with being a three month rental, I could not do it. There's been no indication Samardzija will improve. I could see it if Samardzija was pitching the way he did last, but not now.

 

I may be underestimating the value of Shark as a short term rental. I just read about the young phenom, Rodriquez, Boston brought up. In his first 3 starts he has a .44 ERA and 21 SO in 20 innings. Boston got him at trade deadline for Anrew Miller. Now granted Miller was a lefty closer but Baltimore still only go the 3 months out of him. Rodriquez was Baltimore's 3rd highest prospect. So maybe Shark brings some team's top 5 prospect.

 

[oldsox]

I may be underestimating the value of Shark as a short term rental. I just read about the young phenom, Rodriquez, Boston brought up. In his first 3 starts he has a .44 ERA and 21 SO in 20 innings. Boston got him at trade deadline for Anrew Miller. Now granted Miller was a lefty closer but Baltimore still only go the 3 months out of him. Rodriquez was Baltimore's 3rd highest prospect. So maybe Shark brings some team's top 5 prospect.

While they bragging about the trade in Boston, in Baltimore there is criticism.

[BlackSox13]

I may be underestimating the value of Shark as a short term rental. I just read about the young phenom, Rodriquez, Boston brought up. In his first 3 starts he has a .44 ERA and 21 SO in 20 innings. Boston got him at trade deadline for Anrew Miller. Now granted Miller was a lefty closer but Baltimore still only go the 3 months out of him. Rodriquez was Baltimore's 3rd highest prospect. So maybe Shark brings some team's top 5 prospect.

Hmm, you make a good point. Perhaps I'm underestimating Samardzija's value. I really don't see the value but I do hope I'm blind in this case.lol.

[harfman77]

His greatest value is either with the Sox or as a comp pick at the end of the season. No reason to think about trading him. Yes the team is 6.5 games out of first and 3.5 out of the wildcard, but that is not insurmountable by any means especially given how many things have gone wrong thus far. When the players start regressing toward their norms this team will be right there. It has taken a while to gel things together which can be expected when there are so many new parts.

 

I think by the time the end of July rolls around this team will be looking to upgrade a position or two to make a stretch run.

[SCCWS]

His greatest value is either with the Sox or as a comp pick at the end of the season. No reason to think about trading him. Yes the team is 6.5 games out of first and 3.5 out of the wildcard, but that is not insurmountable by any means especially given how many things have gone wrong thus far. When the players start regressing toward their norms this team will be right there. It has taken a while to gel things together which can be expected when there are so many new parts.

 

I think by the time the end of July rolls around this team will be looking to upgrade a position or two to make a stretch run.

 

 

Agree that some players will move more to norm. We are seeing Beckham go the other way as well w more playing time. We also have been pretty free of major injuries but we should expect to lose some time as well. I discount the 6.5 and 3.5 because you have to factor in the number of teams we are behind as well as the games back. We should know by mid-July whether we will be buyers or sellers

[Balta1701]

Agree that some players will move more to norm. We are seeing Beckham go the other way as well w more playing time. We also have been pretty free of major injuries but we should expect to lose some time as well. I discount the 6.5 and 3.5 because you have to factor in the number of teams we are behind as well as the games back. We should know by mid-July whether we will be buyers or sellers

If Samardzija were actually pitching well and everyone else around him were crumbling you could make a case for moving him now to get a better return, but since he's been awful there's no harm in waiting on him to see if he puts together a couple non-terrible starts in a row before mid July.

[cabiness42]

The offer the Sox would need to get to justify giving up the comp pick they would get >>>>>>> the offer any sane team would make to get Jeff for half a season.

[Boopa1219]

The Blue Jays want pitching, I would trade them Shark for Hoffman and cash straight up.

Edited June 12, 2015 by Joshua Strong

[southsider2k5]

The Blue Jays want pitching, I would trade them Shark for Hoffman and cash straight up.

 

And after they hang up the phone on you...

[caulfield12]

The Blue Jays want pitching, I would trade them Shark for Hoffman and cash straight up.

 

 

Depends on how desperate they are for cash, and how willing the White Sox are to give it up.

 

We've never really made that type of move, that I can recall...but it would make sense if the Jays looked at it as adding Samardzija and being able to add 1-2 more pieces with the cash sent over by the Sox.

 

Their attendance has been just so-so this year (also had high expectations going in like us), so you'd have to imagine they're not exactly rolling in the dough.

 

What did Forbes say about their profits/losses over the last 2-3 seasons? That would be one area to look at.

[LDF]

 

i do not think a. tor would do and b. i don't think chi will do it.

 

remember, looking at the thread on may 1 team results, chi is still in the thick of it. why do any trade.

[GGajewski18]

Let's think, what teams need pitching help.

Houston. Toronto. Yankees. Rangers. Pittsburg. Dodgers. Boston (Chris Sale, hahaha jk)

 

Teams that need SS help:

San Diego. Pittsburg. Mets. Yankees.

 

If the Sox are out of it, I think we can start thinking of packages with these teams.

Edited June 12, 2015 by SoxPride18

[Boopa1219]

Depends on how desperate they are for cash, and how willing the White Sox are to give it up.

 

We've never really made that type of move, that I can recall...but it would make sense if the Jays looked at it as adding Samardzija and being able to add 1-2 more pieces with the cash sent over by the Sox.

 

Their attendance has been just so-so this year (also had high expectations going in like us), so you'd have to imagine they're not exactly rolling in the dough.

 

What did Forbes say about their profits/losses over the last 2-3 seasons? That would be one area to look at.

 

The Blue Jays never made never made that type of move before, that's why they have to make it, they're in the mix for Papelbon. They could win the division this not only this year but they have the brightest immediate future of of all the teams in the east and Shark would cement that. Plus they have some pitching depth in their system

Edited June 12, 2015 by Joshua Strong