Chisoxfn Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 What to Do With Alexei Ramirez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 20, 2015 Author Share Posted July 20, 2015 Thought this was a very interesting read and Mark put together an excellent case for why we should be patient on Ramirez. I was expecting the stats to back up the fact that he wasn't hitting the ball hard, but it seems like, more then anything, Ramirez is going through some undue luck at the plate (driven largely from a low BAPIP and an even lower HR bat (despite having good exit velocities and typical line drive rates (compared to his career). While we have seen some defensive regression, Ramirez has made some major positive jumps in the defensive metrics over the past month as well, which would indicate a lot of what was going on defensively was mental (and for all I know, might have been a carry forward from some errors he took too rough and/or his offensive struggles). Given how much heat Alexei takes on here, I thought this was a good read and I agree on the premise. Unless another team was going to give us prospects betting on a Ramirez bounce back, their is far more upside in us keeping him and seeing him turn around during 2nd half (to justify bringing him back) vs. losing him for near nothing. Now if you could get an intriguing prospect, matters get interesting, but if we did that, we'd open up a major hole at a critical position wihle intending to contend. This would become a moot point of if we acquired a SS (or top SS prospect elsewhere) but Tim Anderson is still pretty raw and probably at least a year away (and maybe longer if we are talking about defense, an area of need), so while I think Anderson's bat could play next year and be ready, his glove at SS is a major work in process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 10:53 AM) Thought this was a very interesting read and Mark put together an excellent case for why we should be patient on Ramirez. I was expecting the stats to back up the fact that he wasn't hitting the ball hard, but it seems like, more then anything, Ramirez is going through some undue luck at the plate (driven largely from a low BAPIP and an even lower HR bat (despite having good exit velocities and typical line drive rates (compared to his career). While we have seen some defensive regression, Ramirez has made some major positive jumps in the defensive metrics over the past month as well, which would indicate a lot of what was going on defensively was mental (and for all I know, might have been a carry forward from some errors he took too rough and/or his offensive struggles). Given how much heat Alexei takes on here, I thought this was a good read and I agree on the premise. Unless another team was going to give us prospects betting on a Ramirez bounce back, their is far more upside in us keeping him and seeing him turn around during 2nd half (to justify bringing him back) vs. losing him for near nothing. Now if you could get an intriguing prospect, matters get interesting, but if we did that, we'd open up a major hole at a critical position wihle intending to contend. This would become a moot point of if we acquired a SS (or top SS prospect elsewhere) but Tim Anderson is still pretty raw and probably at least a year away (and maybe longer if we are talking about defense, an area of need), so while I think Anderson's bat could play next year and be ready, his glove at SS is a major work in process. Mike* (Eminor 3rd on this board). He raises great points about what exactly has caused Alexei to just drop off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 he looks lazy to me, I am still a fan of getting rid of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 04:06 PM) Mike* (Eminor 3rd on this board). He raises great points about what exactly has caused Alexei to just drop off. any link so we can read it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Good read. Biggest problem is the Sox don't really have anyone to play SS other than Saladino or Sanchez and then that opens up 3B and 2B. Or you could do 3B - Saladino, SS - Sanchez, 2B - Johnson, but then you have a very, very light hitting offense. At this point, I may be more inclined to do that and just turn the page on Alexei. I could totally see him bouncing back next year, but his poor ABs and often lackadaisical demeanor have sort of worn thin on me. I just think it is time to move on if you can get anything of value for him. I don't see the Sox picking up the option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 20, 2015 Author Share Posted July 20, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 09:12 AM) any link so we can read it. It is in the 1st post of this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Yall really want the Sox to pay $9 million for Alexei Ramirez next year? Get a 3B and let Saladino play short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 11:15 AM) Yall really want the Sox to pay $9 million for Alexei Ramirez next year? Get a 3B and let Saladino play short. It is actually $11M, y'all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I'd be curious to see who are free agent infielders / shortstops for next year. Maybe the Sox can get one on a short term deal. They need to get rid of Ramirez in my opinion. He is the poster boy for "baseball-stupid" that has been plaguing this team for the past few years. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 12:24 PM) I'd be curious to see who are free agent infielders / shortstops for next year. Maybe the Sox can get one on a short term deal. They need to get rid of Ramirez in my opinion. He is the poster boy for "baseball-stupid" that has been plaguing this team for the past few years. Mark Alexei Ramirez is as good as any other FA option, which should tell you a lot. Hell, I'm not sure I'd be all that mad about picking him up for $5 million as a 1-year stopgap. Alexei, Cabrera, Stephen Drew, JRoll, and a couple of utility guys. Joaquin Arias (31) Mike Aviles (35) Willie Bloomquist (38) Asdrubal Cabrera (30) Ian Desmond (30) Stephen Drew (33) Alcides Escobar (29) – $5.25MM club option with a $500K buyout Maicer Izturis (35) – $3MM club option with a $1MM buyout Cliff Pennington (32) Alexei Ramirez (34) – $10MM club option with a $1MM buyout Sean Rodriguez (31) Jimmy Rollins (37) Brendan Ryan (34) – $1MM player option Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JolietThunder Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 11:10 AM) he looks lazy to me, I am still a fan of getting rid of him. 150%Agree about him being Lazy and wold love to see SOX get rid of him. Would love to see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 20, 2015 Author Share Posted July 20, 2015 Ian Desmond would be an interesting buy low candidate. Have no idea what has caused his drop in production but he was coming off of 3 straight years with an OPS > .740 and has twice posted OPS > .840. Over past 3 seasons had averaged just over 3.5 WAR and just turned 30. Solid defensive player as well. Other then Desmond, I'd say Alexei is the next best candidate. Rollins is a pretty heady ball player but has struggled in LA (part of that may be effect of new stadium) but he's been trending downward for a few years. I also presume he wants to play for a contender (if he even plays a year from now). I am not counting Alcides Escobar as I'm going to assume their is no way the Royal's don't pick up that option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 05:12 PM) It is in the 1st post of this thread. many thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I have said that about Alexei all along. It applies to some others on the team too that we see being called out as trade now. I still think we have talented players and we should not dismantle over a bad year. A few changes are needed for sure but not a total dismantling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Why not Saladino? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 05:34 PM) Why not Saladino? excellent article... funny on the other adjective link. btw, how does adam laroche stats look like using the come back portions, or can that be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Great article, nice first blog post, Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 10:51 AM) Great article, nice first blog post, Mike. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 12:51 PM) Great article, nice first blog post, Mike. While I totally disagree with the conclusion, I also offer compliments on the article and post. Well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 12:27 PM) Alexei Ramirez is as good as any other FA option, which should tell you a lot. Hell, I'm not sure I'd be all that mad about picking him up for $5 million as a 1-year stopgap. Alexei, Cabrera, Stephen Drew, JRoll, and a couple of utility guys. He is the 8th highest paid SS in baseball and this year is one of the worst overall. I wouldn't offer more than $3 Mil and if he refuses worse case pick up someone who can defend. Next year is another rebuild in the 3 year plan so you monitor Anderson and determine his future and the see who you can get in 2016. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 20, 2015 Author Share Posted July 20, 2015 QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 10:53 AM) He is the 8th highest paid SS in baseball and this year is one of the worst overall. I wouldn't offer more than $3 Mil and if he refuses worse case pick up someone who can defend. Next year is another rebuild in the 3 year plan so you monitor Anderson and determine his future and the see who you can get in 2016. I think Ramirez gets more then 3M. I'd give him an incentive laden deal that guaranteed him around 5 and gave him upside for another 3 - 5. This could all change by the end of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 10:32 AM) Ian Desmond would be an interesting buy low candidate. Have no idea what has caused his drop in production but he was coming off of 3 straight years with an OPS > .740 and has twice posted OPS > .840. Over past 3 seasons had averaged just over 3.5 WAR and just turned 30. Solid defensive player as well. Other then Desmond, I'd say Alexei is the next best candidate. Rollins is a pretty heady ball player but has struggled in LA (part of that may be effect of new stadium) but he's been trending downward for a few years. I also presume he wants to play for a contender (if he even plays a year from now). I am not counting Alcides Escobar as I'm going to assume their is no way the Royal's don't pick up that option. Beware the jinx of the Nationals.... Dunn, LaRoche, now we want Desmond? Suppose it would be better than Stephen Drew, Asdrubal, etc., so there's that. Might as well trade Quintana for Strasburg and pray real hard. Edited July 20, 2015 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 01:58 PM) Beware the jinx of the Nationals.... Dunn, LaRoche, now we want Desmond? Suppose it would be better than Stephen Drew, Asdrubal, etc., so there's that. Might as well trade Quintana for Strasburg and pray real hard. Basically our options for next year are Saladino, one of those guys, or trading legit talent away for a legit shortstop. And that's just one of multiple positions where we have major issues. Ponder that for a minute and you'll start understanding why I'm down on this team's chances for the near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 12:09 PM) Basically our options for next year are Saladino, one of those guys, or trading legit talent away for a legit shortstop. And that's just one of multiple positions where we have major issues. Ponder that for a minute and you'll start understanding why I'm down on this team's chances for the near future. Outside of a Japanese or Korean (the Pirates were doing okay with Kang for awhile)...no answers. Maybe the Dodgers will deal the other Cuban with the super long name beginning and ending with an A that they acquired two years ago, but he would probably hit as well as Rey Ordonez or Rondon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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