2015-2016 NBA Thread

[Rowand44]

Trading Butler for anything other than a top 2 pick in this draft is dumb, even if you get a guy like Wiggins. Why would you trade a franchise player (even a lower end one) for a couple of prospects that percentages say will never pan out?

 

All but about 5 teams in the league continue searching for an all-star quality player to build their team around. The Bulls have one. It would be moronic to let that go.

Cause he's not a franchise player.

[Jenksismyhero]

Cause he's not a franchise player.

 

Then your definition of franchise player is pretty limited.

[bmags]

Wiggins and a 5 would be unreal. I'd lose my faith in Thibs with front office power if he made that deal.

[Boogua]

Barring injury, Jimmy Butler is Andrew Wiggins's floor. Absolutely no way the Bulls get him.

[bmags]

Barring injury, Jimmy Butler is Andrew Wiggins's floor. Absolutely no way the Bulls get him.

 

Wiggins is obviously very talented but Jimmy Butler is not his floor.

[Jenksismyhero]

As it should be. Every team doesn't have a franchise player, just because they are the most talented on that specific squad.

 

Sure, but the flipside to that is we have more than just 2-3 franchise players in the league. You can be a franchise player and not be a superstar (even though Butler is getting there based on his exposure and endorsements).

 

Butler's a top 15 player in the league. Put him on the vast majority of teams and he's going to be the best player. Let's go down the list:

 

GS (the big three)

Cleveland (Lebron and Kyrie)

OKC (Durant and Westbrook)

Spurs (Khawi, maybe Aldridge)

NO (Davis)

 

Those are the only teams with guys I would take over Butler no questions asked. I'm sure i'm missing someone obvious, but it's still a small list.

 

To me Butler's on that next tier with Paul George, Damian Lillard, Boogie, etc. Guys that aren't winning you a championship by themselves but are still great players that won't allow your team to become the Sixers. Obviously the dysfunction around the Bulls this year hurts that argument, but I don't think that was due to anything Butler did on the court. I still consider those guys franchise players based on their play and marketability. They're all recognized nationally and for good reason.

[Panerista]

Barring injury, Jimmy Butler is Andrew Wiggins's floor. Absolutely no way the Bulls get him.

Throw out the picks, I would do Wiggins for Jimmy any day of the week.

[Panerista]

Sure, but the flipside to that is we have more than just 2-3 franchise players in the league. You can be a franchise player and not be a superstar (even though Butler is getting there based on his exposure and endorsements).

 

Butler's a top 15 player in the league. Put him on the vast majority of teams and he's going to be the best player. Let's go down the list:

 

GS (the big three)

Cleveland (Lebron and Kyrie)

OKC (Durant and Westbrook)

Spurs (Khawi, maybe Aldridge)

NO (Davis)

 

Those are the only teams with guys I would take over Butler no questions asked. I'm sure i'm missing someone obvious, but it's still a small list.

 

To me Butler's on that next tier with Paul George, Damian Lillard, Boogie, etc. Guys that aren't winning you a championship by themselves but are still great players that won't allow your team to become the Sixers. Obviously the dysfunction around the Bulls this year hurts that argument, but I don't think that was due to anything Butler did on the court. I still consider those guys franchise players based on their play and marketability. They're all recognized nationally and for good reason.

Top 15 player in the league won't win you a championship. Especially when some teams have more than one top 15 player.

 

Move Butler if the price is right.

[shipps]

Thibs is not giving up Wiggins. They are offering the 5th pick and I am sure they anticipate having to throw in a sweetener like Levine and a future pick for it to possibly be enough for the Bulls FO to take the bait.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

Wiggins and the 5th pick and the deal is done. If you don't get Wiggins, I'm not making this deal. By the way, there is no way the Wolves are going to give up the #5 & Wiggins without intense pressure from another team (i.e,. Boston offering the #3, Brooklyn's unprotected pick in next years draft, and like Crowder or Olynk (or however the hell you spell it). I don't think Bulls would turn down either of those deals and to be frank, those are the only type of deals I'm going to make if I were in the Bulls shoes (and I put odds on either team offering up that as relatively low). My preference would be on the Wiggins and the 5th (but I still don't see a lot of reasons why Twolves would do it).

 

Basically unless a huge bidding war breaks out over Butler, I think he stays with the Bulls. The real question is what happens with DRose, imo. I still think he goes somewhere for a late 1st. I don't expect Durant to leave OKC which is what could actually put the Bulls in an interesting spot (regarding Butler) as he'd be the best, potentially on the block asset in the league.

 

My big problem is I don't want Hoiberg around and I don't like Gar. If we had a better coach, I'd be more comfortable moving Butler, but than again, if we had a better coach, I honestly don't think we are talking about moving Butler and instead are talking about moving Rose and finding a good point guard and other young talent to surround around Buckets. So kind of a who knows. I do think Rose needs to leave Chicago and he'll probably get better being another year removed from injuries, etc, but he clearly is too soft of a player and since he isn't a great passer and isn't a great outside shooter, his style isn't going to work that well in this current NBA regime unless he really wants to play aggressive and attack.

I know it's unscientific, but I found it interesting, in April I went into the Sports Depot at USCF. I checked out the sales racks. They have jerseys of ex players Flowers, Shark, etc. then they had some Danks jerseys. Sure enough, a week or so later, he gone. The only Bulls jersey they have on the sale rack is DRose.

[bmags]

I would also deal for Wiggins straight up. You get a younger cheaper player with high upside. On the other hand, he's not an older, whiter, hand picked player from some sort of rural corn town. Tough call for Gar.

[Chisoxfn]

Sure, but the flipside to that is we have more than just 2-3 franchise players in the league. You can be a franchise player and not be a superstar (even though Butler is getting there based on his exposure and endorsements).

 

Butler's a top 15 player in the league. Put him on the vast majority of teams and he's going to be the best player. Let's go down the list:

 

GS (the big three)

Cleveland (Lebron and Kyrie)

OKC (Durant and Westbrook)

Spurs (Khawi, maybe Aldridge)

NO (Davis)

 

Those are the only teams with guys I would take over Butler no questions asked. I'm sure i'm missing someone obvious, but it's still a small list.

 

To me Butler's on that next tier with Paul George, Damian Lillard, Boogie, etc. Guys that aren't winning you a championship by themselves but are still great players that won't allow your team to become the Sixers. Obviously the dysfunction around the Bulls this year hurts that argument, but I don't think that was due to anything Butler did on the court. I still consider those guys franchise players based on their play and marketability. They're all recognized nationally and for good reason.

No one thought Steph Curry was a franchise player until he was (or that the Warriors were a budding dynasty until they were..."they needed to get Love"). If we should only make moves for franchise players, than typically, you are going to be royally screwed in this league. Should we just quit for 20 years until somehow a franchise player lucks in your lap or should you consistently strive to be as good as possible (which should in theory position yourself to have the necessary assets to potentially be able to attract a key piece in FA and/or give you pieces to be able to land such piece via trade). Anthony Davis was a so called franchise player (and don't get me wrong, I'd love him on the Bulls and I still think he's the guy they will get after he eventually grows tired in his current situation) but what has he really done.

[Chisoxfn]

Top 15 player in the league won't win you a championship. Especially when some teams have more than one top 15 player.

 

Move Butler if the price is right.

Multiple top 15 guys in the league or a top 15 guy with multiple good players, could. Last I looked, while you strive for a championship, just because you aren't the favorite, should you just quit and just focus on the draft.

[Chisoxfn]

I know it's unscientific, but I found it interesting, in April I went into the Sports Depot at USCF. I checked out the sales racks. They have jerseys of ex players Flowers, Shark, etc. then they had some Danks jerseys. Sure enough, a week or so later, he gone. The only Bulls jersey they have on the sale rack is DRose.

So I actually came to a similar conclusion. I was at the NBA store in New York yesterday (just stopped in) and was going to see if they maybe had something cool for my son and/or daughter that was Bulls related. I didn't see anything but Rose stuff. I eventually found Butler stuff burried in the store (Behind even the noah stuff). That said, probably has a lot more to do with overall sales as I think Rose is still pretty high on merchandise sales for whatever reason.

 

I thought to myself...hmmm...does the NBA store know, haha. I know they don't, but made me think. That said, it could be that they have not ordered a ton of inventory of Butler stuff due to what they hear (i.e., manage it). Hell if I know.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Thibs is not giving up Wiggins. They are offering the 5th pick and I am sure they anticipate having to throw in a sweetener like Levine and a future pick for it to possibly be enough for the Bulls FO to take the bait.

 

 

They aren't getting Jimmy Butler then. I don't think Kris Dunn, Zach LaVine, and Dieng is enough. Bulls should hold out for Wiggins or not deal him to Minnesota. How badly does Tom want him? Boston can probably top Minnesota's offer. I'm definitely on board with dealing him and remaking the roster. I also love Dunn. I just don't think that's enough though. That Minnesota deal would allow them to make a run at Demar Derozan though.

[Jenksismyhero]

They aren't getting Jimmy Butler then. I don't think Kris Dunn, Zach LaVine, and Dieng is enough. Bulls should hold out for Wiggins or not deal him to Minnesota. How badly does Tom want him? Boston can probably top Minnesota's offer. I'm definitely on board with dealing him and remaking the roster. I also love Dunn. I just don't think that's enough though. That Minnesota deal would allow them to make a run at Demar Derozan though.

 

Why would he sign with the Bulls when the Bulls have no one but rookies and a broken D-Rose to play with?

[Boogua]

Wiggins is obviously very talented but Jimmy Butler is not his floor.

Wiggins is already close offensively with a ton more upside. If he takes another step defensively under Thibs, which should be expected, he's already there.

[Boogua]

Throw out the picks, I would do Wiggins for Jimmy any day of the week.

I'll take the guy that is six years younger, is a just about as good a scorer, and has much higher upside on both offense and defense. Thibs has shown that he is good at developing players. I would never trade Wiggins for Butler, as I don't think many teams would.

[bmags]

Wiggins is already close offensively with a ton more upside. If he takes another step defensively under Thibs, which should be expected, he's already there.

 

Oh so to hit his floor he needs to progress offensively and defensively?

[Boogua]

Oh so to hit his floor he needs to progress offensively and defensively?

Hence the "barring injury". I never said he was there yet. The kid turned 21 4 months ago. He's close enough where a Jimmy Butler caliber player should be his floor.

[Rowand44]

So what kind of team are we hoping to build around Jimmy? Cause we're not getting KD or Russ or LeBron, so are we just going to try signing good but not great players again and rinse and repeat?

 

Standing pat with Jimmy is just a bad move imo.

[ZoomSlowik]

This discussion annoys me. Butler is the one thing about the Bulls that doesn't suck. Okay, he's probably not the best player on a title winner. That doesn't mean the answer is to trade him for some castoffs from a s***ty team. He's young enough and his contract is going to be a steal pretty soon. They can still try other avenues to improve and do something similar in a year or two if things don't improve (I'm assuming Wiggins isn't involved).

[Panerista]

This discussion annoys me. Butler is the one thing about the Bulls that doesn't suck. Okay, he's probably not the best player on a title winner. That doesn't mean the answer is to trade him for some castoffs from a s***ty team. He's young enough and his contract is going to be a steal pretty soon. They can still try other avenues to improve and do something similar in a year or two if things don't improve (I'm assuming Wiggins isn't involved).

What's your plan? What gets the Bulls closer to a championship?

[Steve9347]

So I actually came to a similar conclusion. I was at the NBA store in New York yesterday (just stopped in) and was going to see if they maybe had something cool for my son and/or daughter that was Bulls related. I didn't see anything but Rose stuff. I eventually found Butler stuff burried in the store (Behind even the noah stuff). That said, probably has a lot more to do with overall sales as I think Rose is still pretty high on merchandise sales for whatever reason.

 

I thought to myself...hmmm...does the NBA store know, haha. I know they don't, but made me think. That said, it could be that they have not ordered a ton of inventory of Butler stuff due to what they hear (i.e., manage it). Hell if I know.

That NBA Store is the s***. My wife had to drag me out of there when we visited.

[Steve9347]

What's your plan? What gets the Bulls closer to a championship?

I don't think that the Bulls and a championship is anything that's a remote possibility in the next 5 seasons. Butler or Wiggins it doesn't really matter, so we might as well keep Jimmy around to watch the Rose v Jimmy soap opera continue to develop.