I quickly scanned the first three pages and saw 0 (zero) mentions of Robin being a bad manager because of his winning percentage.

Wouldn't lack of wins be winning percentage? I don't think the pitchforks would be out if he had a .550 winning percentage, and I know you have seen plenty of posts actually using the words winning percentage.

 

The bottom line is, if you think Robin is a bad manager because the Sox don't win many games, you don't want Manny Acta as the bench coach and possible replacement, because when he was making out line up cards, his teams lost more often.

I haven't used winning percentage as the main reason for wanting him fired. There's many others before I'd pull that card. He hasn't had great players but there's just no accountability, consistent dumb mistakes and lacking good fundamentals.

Not sure I agree with blaming Robin for lack of fundamentals. These players have been playing baseball their entire lives, and a bunch of our players are veterans from other teams. It's not up to Robin to teach them fundamentals, they should already know how to do that.

Not sure I agree with blaming Robin for lack of fundamentals. These players have been playing baseball their entire lives, and a bunch of our players are veterans from other teams. It's not up to Robin to teach them fundamentals, they should already know how to do that.

 

I've seen this posted so many times yet it feels like I keep seeing the "ROBIN DOESN'T EVEN SHOW THEM FUNDAMENTALS!!" circlejerk over and over. These guys made it to pro-ball, if they sucked at fundamentals they wouldn't be where they are in the first place.

Edited October 21, 201510 yr by TheTruth05

Wouldn't lack of wins be winning percentage? I don't think the pitchforks would be out if he had a .550 winning percentage, and I know you have seen plenty of posts actually using the words winning percentage.

 

The bottom line is, if you think Robin is a bad manager because the Sox don't win many games, you don't want Manny Acta as the bench coach and possible replacement, because when he was making out line up cards, his teams lost more often.

 

Eh, now you are really stretching to keep this going. What you said, isn't there in any real volume. A few people said it, SOXTALK didn't say it.

Not sure I agree with blaming Robin for lack of fundamentals. These players have been playing baseball their entire lives, and a bunch of our players are veterans from other teams. It's not up to Robin to teach them fundamentals, they should already know how to do that.

 

They constantly make dumb mistakes and lack focus at times. His job to hold players accountable.

Not sure I agree with blaming Robin for lack of fundamentals. These players have been playing baseball their entire lives, and a bunch of our players are veterans from other teams. It's not up to Robin to teach them fundamentals, they should already know how to do that.

 

This is the anti-Robin argument I see made most often on Soxtalk.

Eh, now you are really stretching to keep this going. What you said, isn't there in any real volume. A few people said it, SOXTALK didn't say it.

DA's net that he casts usually is a wide one.

Eh, now you are really stretching to keep this going. What you said, isn't there in any real volume. A few people said it, SOXTALK didn't say it.

 

And as far as I can tell, only one person mentioned wanting Manny Acta. And it wasn't even to replace Robin.

Edited October 21, 201510 yr by Iwritecode

Acta was one of the earlier managers that embraced analytics, so the stats guys have enduring love for him.

But his bottom line is miserable. I don't know if it's his fault, etc.

 

I do want a manager who uses analytics. But there are a lot of those guys, and see little reason to take one that has a poor percentage.

Plus, given that Ventura is coming back, unfortunate as that may be, it just doesn't make sense to have an experienced manager looking over his shoulder. That's not healthy.

I'd much rather an Alomar type who at least can presume to be at a proper position of bench coach.

Acta was one of the earlier managers that embraced analytics, so the stats guys have enduring love for him.

But his bottom line is miserable. I don't know if it's his fault, etc.

 

I do want a manager who uses analytics. But there are a lot of those guys, and see little reason to take one that has a poor percentage.

Plus, given that Ventura is coming back, unfortunate as that may be, it just doesn't make sense to have an experienced manager looking over his shoulder. That's not healthy.

I'd much rather an Alomar type who at least can presume to be at a proper position of bench coach.

Acta's team rankings by WAR

 

2007: 30th in pitching, 25th in hitting, 12th in defense

2008: 25th in pitching, 29th in hitting, 15th in defense

2009: 30th in pitching, 22nd in hitting, 28th in defense

2010: 28th in pitching, 25th in hitting, 26th in defense

2011: 20th in pitching, 22nd in hitting, 28th in defense

2012: 24th in pitching, 27th in hitting, 29th in defense

 

Not hard to see why his bottom line is miserable, all of his teams have been f***ing terrible. I'm actually surprised he managed to win 80 games with one of them.

Robin's winning pct. has been mentioned numerous times as the proof he needs to be fired. It has also been posted that no team other than the White Sox would ever hire him. You called Acta an ideal candidate. What is that based on? Certainly not how the teams he managed played.

 

73-89

59-102

26-61

69-93

80-82

65-91

First, I said an ideal "bench coach" candidate, with the three primary reasons being he is a former manager, bilingual, & being pro-stats. Second, I've argued time and time again that using wins & losses is a horrible way to evaluate a manager.

 

So if you're using me as your source of hypocrisy you're way off base.

Not hard to see why his bottom line is miserable, all of his teams have been f***ing terrible. I'm actually surprised he managed to win 80 games with one of them.

Fair enough, but you could produce similar statistics for Ventura re offense and defense and see why his bottom line is miserable.

I'm looking for a reason to believe he's a good manager, beyond his use of analytics.

The same question has been asked 1000 times as well...forgetting completely about talent and/or winning percentage, list just 3-5 things that we can credit Ventura with being really good or exceptional at. He's even keeled and doesn't get too high or low (the opposite argument being he doesn't care or visibly show that he cares). He keeps things in the clubhouse and out of the media...but apparently that didn't extend to Parent.

 

We can only do that for Maddon because of a media conspiracy to hype him or because they love his quotes and eccentricities?

 

He's done pretty well with bullpen management over the past couple of years. That's about the best defense so far. Managers don't matter isn't a good reason to be happy when our coaching staff has been ranked fourth from the bottom among all major pro sports franchises.

 

We're definitely more old school overall than analytics driven in approach, especially in terms of line-up construction and platooning (creating optimal match-ups). With both Cooper and Robin, you'd be hard-pressed to say that will change anytime soon. Although we had the greatest percentage change in shifting defensively...where that came from and who pushed it the most (KW, Hahn, the computer and data models manager, etc.)

Edited October 21, 201510 yr by caulfield12

I don't care if the guy is an analytics type if our team doesn't have the talent which I don't think this team does for the most part.

I think Sandy Alomar would be a great bench coach. He has a lot of respect out there and experience. However, does he have more loyalty to the Indians then the Sox? He might not be interested in moving back to the Southside. I have no problems with Robin Ventura, but I am sure another losing season won't be tolerated by the front office. Alomar is managerial ready

Staying with the Indians.

 

https://twitter.com/hoynsie/status/658732186133241856

I'm on the Julio Vinas bandwagon.

 

I'm on the Julio Vinas bandwagon.

 

Certainly makes sense considering the contract status of everyone else on the coaching staff.

Can't believe you wouldn't want this job. Francona has won a world series and is 3 for 3 being over .500 in Cleveland. No one is else is getting that job soon. Sox job you could have as soon as May 1st.

 

My only thought is he thinks he'll get interviewed for a head job this offseason and the sox said they wouldn't release him for that since this an important hire for them.

 

Merkin said he was no longer a candidate last week. We don't know if he turned down the job or the White Sox like someone else better. Or it could be the contract situation. Can they really give him a multiple year contract and say for certain he is the permanent replacement if they make a change? Would they?

 

Renteria seems like the best choice left to me of the candidate named.

Merkin said he was no longer a candidate last week. We don't know if he turned down the job or the White Sox like someone else better. Or it could be the contract situation. Can they really give him a multiple year contract and say for certain he is the permanent replacement if they make a change? Would they?

 

Renteria seems like the best choice left to me of the candidate named.

I'm intrigued by Ibanez. I think it's him. Seems like we're waiting on him. Or at the very least talk to him.

 

Wouldn't bench coach be considered a lateral move? If so, wouldn't the Indians have to give him permission to interview?

 

Honestly, if I had to guess I would say the Indians simply denied the Sox's request for an interview.

Wouldn't bench coach be considered a lateral move? If so, wouldn't the Indians have to give him permission to interview?

 

Honestly, if I had to guess I would say the Indians simply denied the Sox's request for an interview.

He definitely talked to the Sox about the job. There were some quotes from him a couple of weeks ago.

I bet that Alomar asked for a promise that he was next in line for the job, and the Sox didn't give it, which is why he is back in Cleveland.