Gray, Keuchel, and Price are the finalists. Sale's ERA was 3.41, but he had the lowest FIP in the AL.

Gray, Keuchel, and Price are the finalists. Sale's ERA was 3.41, but he had the lowest FIP in the AL.

 

Sale had 2.4 more fWAR than Gray. Gray had 2.5 more bWAR than Sale.

 

How Sale only had 3.3 bWAR last year is beyond me...

Not really surprising.

Sale had 2.4 more fWAR than Gray. Gray had 2.5 more bWAR than Sale.

 

How Sale only had 3.3 bWAR last year is beyond me...

 

fWAR is the preferable metric for pitchers.

 

Anyway, thanks White Sox defense!

fWAR is the preferable metric for pitchers.

 

Anyway, thanks White Sox defense!

 

bWAR is supposed to judge based on ERA and defense. Apparently, whatever metric they used thought Sale didn't pitch in front of a bad defense...that's laughable.

He's going to win it next year anyway, so no worries.

 

His ERA definitely wasn't indicative of how good he was last year.

I think the award should judge what did happen on the field, not what should have happened if everyone had the same defense. Sorry Chris, just gonna have to strike everyone out next year.

Thanks Minnesota! Assholes. Sale needs to pitch better against them

Thanks Minnesota! Assholes. Sale needs to pitch better against them

They singlehandedly cost him the Cy Young this year. It f***ing sucks.

Can't argue with it. Strikeouts are nice but wins are nicer in my opinion and Sale was simply inconsistent this year save for that stretch of 10 or so games.

 

Mark

Chris Sale had a 6.2 fWAR season with a FIP of 2.73. Sonny Gray put up a 3.8 fWAR and a 3.45 FIP. Him being in the discussion over Sale is a joke.

bWAR is supposed to judge based on ERA and defense. Apparently, whatever metric they used thought Sale didn't pitch in front of a bad defense...that's laughable.

 

bWAR is based on runs allowed regardless of whether they were earned or not. If your defense is bad you give up more runs lowering your bWAR. That's the huge difference in his fWAR and bWAR is that fWAR doesn't ding the pitcher for poor defense.

It's not all just bad defense that raised Sale's ERA. The other major difference between FIP (fWAR) and RA (bWAR) is the FIP is unconcerned with the order in which things happen. Sale was absolutely dominant for long stretches, but he also made his own bed with that ERA by allowing a lot of big innings. Putting all the blame on the guys behind him, especially for a pitcher with such a high strikeout rate, distracts from problems that Chris actually did have this year.

 

He still should have been ahead of Gray, but ultimately who cares if he finishes third or fourth. If you ain't first, you're last.

It's not all just bad defense that raised Sale's ERA. The other major difference between FIP (fWAR) and RA (bWAR) is the FIP is unconcerned with the order in which things happen. Sale was absolutely dominant for long stretches, but he also made his own bed with that ERA by allowing a lot of big innings. Putting all the blame on the guys behind him, especially for a pitcher with such a high strikeout rate, distracts from problems that Chris actually did have this year.

 

He still should have been ahead of Gray, but ultimately who cares if he finishes third or fourth. If you ain't first, you're last.

 

If he turns those 4-5 run inning implosions to 1-2 runs instead, his ERA will improve.

 

I'm not worried about him.

Edited November 11, 201510 yr by ChiSoxFanMike

I've read some posts on here that feel Sale should pitch to contact more, and that the focus on strikeouts was part of the cause for his career-high ERA. I don't really agree with that, he saw a similar large jump in his K% and K/9 from 2013 to 2014, where he had by far the lowest ERA of his career. This year it was a combination of bad defense, perhaps a bit of bad luck on balls in play (his BABIP was significantly higher than his career average), too many big innings, the god damn Twins, and giving up way too many HR the last 5-6 weeks of the season.

He finished 4th

Dan Hayes' story on it

I think the award should judge what did happen on the field, not what should have happened if everyone had the same defense. Sorry Chris, just gonna have to strike everyone out next year.

Where aer you in the cy young thread, but the same points I make against Kershaw, I'll make against Sale. He did not deserve to win the Cy Young award.

I've read some posts on here that feel Sale should pitch to contact more, and that the focus on strikeouts was part of the cause for his career-high ERA. I don't really agree with that, he saw a similar large jump in his K% and K/9 from 2013 to 2014, where he had by far the lowest ERA of his career. This year it was a combination of bad defense, perhaps a bit of bad luck on balls in play (his BABIP was significantly higher than his career average), too many big innings, the god damn Twins, and giving up way too many HR the last 5-6 weeks of the season.

 

I feel like his fastball got hit a lot because he was cutting down on sliders. Not sure the stats back that up but I'm sure someone who knows where to find his BAA on fastballs and BAA on sliders and changeups will tell us. Lefties I think also hit him much better than in past years. Maybe too many fastballs instead of sliders to LH's ?

I feel like his fastball got hit a lot because he was cutting down on sliders. Not sure the stats back that up but I'm sure someone who knows where to find his BAA on fastballs and BAA on sliders and changeups will tell us. Lefties I think also hit him much better than in past years. Maybe too many fastballs instead of sliders to LH's ?

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfx.aspx?play...&position=P

Dellin Betances and Shawn Tolleson were better pitchers in 2015 according to 2 writers....A couple thought Marco Estrada was better.....

 

Holy f***, ban those writers immediately.

Dellin Betances and Shawn Tolleson were better pitchers in 2015 according to 2 writers....A couple thought Marco Estrada was better.....

 

Holy f***, ban those writers immediately.

Some writers believe that ERA means everything, unfortunately.

Some writers believe that ERA means everything, unfortunately.

 

At least that's progress from believing that wins mean everything.

Dellin Betances and Shawn Tolleson were better pitchers in 2015 according to 2 writers....A couple thought Marco Estrada was better.....

 

Holy f***, ban those writers immediately.

Yeah, Marco Estrada and his 4.40 FIP for Cy Young!