Isn't it really like 5 people that are negative vs. 25+ that are positive? I think their is a segment, including myself, that views this deal as positive as long as it isn't the final piece. If we are going to contend, we need to build a team that truly can contend. That team exists if we find a significant upgrade in the OF (offensively and defensively). Anything more, at that point, is gravy. I think the package with the Reds was fair and I love the fact that Frazier can play above average D. Only thing I don't like about Frazier's game is the lack of OBP.

 

I put a poll up. I am curious how the numbers tally out.

Balta - I think someone mentioned right now, the Sox are 1st in the division in projected WAR (or maybe it was 2015 WAR). That is a stat you had always thrown about (and I believe they were 1st in the division in projected WAR prior to acquiring Frazier so I presume this will increase their margin). We all know teams are still rebuilding but you have touted on that stat a lot in the past about where the Sox fell short, but isn't that a pretty good indicator of where they are headed (vs. even last year where those projections didn't add up).

 

They have significantly upgraded 3 positions thus far. If they are done, I'd argue it isn't enough (as the Royals seem to be undervalued through WAR and I presume they still have moves to make to fill out their roster). But this division is totally up for the taking. If the Royals resign Gordon that would restore them (as everything stands) as the favorites in my eyes, but they have some players who might be due for some regression. Twins & Tribe? Sure they could take steps forward but this division, with the Royals losing Cueto, Gordon (possibly), and Zobrist (along with all the assets that went with acquiring Cueto & Zobrist), they are much different than the team that won the series a year ago.

Bernstein is sour on the deal, shocking

Bernstein is sour on the deal, shocking

 

He gave us 2 more wins....weeee

The amount of negativity surprises even me and I was pretty much against the idea of Frazier. That said, I'm not going to complain about the increased power and defense at 3B or the package it took for those increases.

 

Welcome to the South Side Todd Frazier-.

Is Frazier's defense really elite? I know it's above average, but I didn't think it was that good.

Past 3 years -

 

UZR: 7.2, 6.5, 9.7

DRS: 6, 7, 5

 

At third, that scales out to very good to right under elite IMO

Edited December 16, 201510 yr by Knackattack

Balta - I think someone mentioned right now, the Sox are 1st in the division in projected WAR (or maybe it was 2015 WAR).

Wait, really?

They are still a team that can catch fire because they have starting pitching in spades, but can easily wallow because Sale/Q/Rodon won't get any run support and everything collapses. Losing Samardzija is still probably the best move of this offseason.

You seem pretty convinced that Frazier will tank and that's your right, but I think it's safe to say that those three guys are gonna get more run support with Frazier/Lawrie than Lawrie/Sanchez.

Hahn just said they are not satisfied

Past 3 years -

 

UZR: 7.2, 6.5, 9.7

DRS: 6, 7, 5

 

At third, that scales out to very good to elite IMO

Thank you. I would have checked for myself but BBref and Fangraphs are blocked on my current Wi-Fi network.

Greensox and Alexeihyeess would find a reason to complain if they found a million dollars on the ground.

I loved the Swisher trade...

I loved the Dunn signing...

I was all about the moves last year...

 

I'm tired of getting burned in nearly identical fashion every offseason.

 

The Lawrie trade was a good trade. Sox gave up absolutely nothing for him and Lawrie is young enough to see a breakout year. Uike this deal where despite everyone's declarations could easily contain very good ballplayers dealt in exchange for Adam LaFrazier.

Wait, really?

Maybe I can't read but I thought someone said it was Sox and Indians in the top 2 spots. I never fact checked it so maybe I'm crazy. I would say that this move would only cement that fact.

Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale 45s45 seconds ago

The #WhiteSox still looking to upgrade the lineup,GM Rick Hahn says,and could be in market for splashy free agent such as Upton or Cespedes.

 

Heart warming moment

Balta - I think someone mentioned right now, the Sox are 1st in the division in projected WAR (or maybe it was 2015 WAR). That is a stat you had always thrown about (and I believe they were 1st in the division in projected WAR prior to acquiring Frazier so I presume this will increase their margin). We all know teams are still rebuilding but you have touted on that stat a lot in the past about where the Sox fell short, but isn't that a pretty good indicator of where they are headed (vs. even last year where those projections didn't add up).

 

They have significantly upgraded 3 positions thus far. If they are done, I'd argue it isn't enough (as the Royals seem to be undervalued through WAR and I presume they still have moves to make to fill out their roster). But this division is totally up for the taking. If the Royals resign Gordon that would restore them (as everything stands) as the favorites in my eyes, but they have some players who might be due for some regression. Twins & Tribe? Sure they could take steps forward but this division, with the Royals losing Cueto, Gordon (possibly), and Zobrist (along with all the assets that went with acquiring Cueto & Zobrist), they are much different than the team that won the series a year ago.

http://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.aspx?position=Team

 

Projected WAR now at 33.6, Cleveland is at 38.0, so 2nd in the ALC right now according to Fangraphs, but like you said the Royals are probably undervalued here, even though I think they've been considerably weakened.

Bernstein is sour on the deal, shocking

 

He's down on the deal because he's a typical Sox fan, like many on here. I don't know why this is, but we love to s*** on almost everything the front office does.

Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale 45s45 seconds ago

The #WhiteSox still looking to upgrade the lineup,GM Rick Hahn says,and could be in market for splashy free agent such as Upton or Cespedes.

Add Upton and our pitching staff and I'd say Chicago's best team is on the South Side

Hahn just said they are not satisfied

Deja vu... again

The Sox are about 3-4 WAR better than they were yesterday, which is about 5-6 WAR better than the end of the year. Add in that we managed to dump Shark and all we need is a meager improvement in the outfield to be in contention for the division.

The Cubs put up nearly 50 fWAR last year. The Royals put up 38.3. The Astros put up 44.6. The Indians put up 42.8. The White Sox put up 23.5.

 

If the White Sox replaced Avi Garcia with a 4 win player, and they were already 6 WAR better than the end of the year using your numbers, they would still need a lot of people to step up their performance or to get really lucky to put a team on the field that is a division contender. And again, that's assuming somehow we're as healthy as we were last year, which was a miracle in its own right.

Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale 45s45 seconds ago

The #WhiteSox still looking to upgrade the lineup,GM Rick Hahn says,and could be in market for splashy free agent such as Upton or Cespedes.

 

AWESOME

The reaction to the trade here is overwhelmingly positive. Those complaining about HOW NEGATIVE EVERYONE IS BEING are suffering confirmation bias or something.

Add Upton and our pitching staff and I'd say Chicago's best team is on the South Side

The amount of negativity surprises even me and I was pretty much against the idea of Frazier. That said, I'm not going to complain about the increased power and defense at 3B or the package it took for those increases.

 

Welcome to the South Side Todd Frazier-.

 

Its unbelievable really. And this is coming from someone who loves Trayce and wasn't the biggest Frazier fan because of our already lack of OBP on this team. But his defense and power help immensely on this team. He can regress in both categories and will STILL be better than the crap we've been trotting out at 3B since Beckham's rookie season. Hell even streamer jas him regressing to a 3 WAR player. I'll take that and run every time.

Watching him dominate the derby this year was amazing. Too bad it messed with his swing so much

Chuck Garfien ‏@ChuckGarfien 28s28 seconds ago

Can the White Sox get into the Upton/Cespedes/Gordon sweepstakes? Hahn said "We shall see."