2016 Democratic Thread

[southsider2k5]

Y'all voting Libertarian like bridges and roads, right? I've never quite understood the logistical realities of the Libertarian movement, and as such always just attributed it to being supported by easily manipulated young people who loved Ron Paul, and "get off my lawn" old people.

 

This is just as apt as calling anyone who votes for Bernie Sanders a communist.

[bmags]

Kasich's problem is that he is too smart and moderate for this election. He can't get any traction because he doesn't speak in meme's, which have become the standard currency for this election cycle. It is amazing how short of an information span that people have gotten down to now. It used to be that people listened to hours of entire speeches to get an impression of a candidate. Now if it doesn't fit on a cute picture, America doesn't have time for it. So we get Bernie, Hillary, Trump, and Cruz as a final four.

 

This country is getting the hot mess it deserves. Maybe one of these days it will put more effort into the Presidential election than it does fan fiction for its favorite show.

 

I know you are of a different political persuasion. But I think having watched the Dem debates seen them go into the minutae of specific bills, and go into detailed policy debates to find the edge for candidates, I just think it's absurd to be like "All people care about is sound bytes, therefore Hillary, Bernie, Trumpa nd Cruz".

 

The dem debate has not been about sound bites. It has been about policy and who can push the most progressive, and what is too progressive.

 

It has not been an angry temper tantrum to decide which strong man will go to congress and call them idiots and then the country is saved!

 

Basically, this primary season has been polar opposite, so I don't understand the "#bothsides" of it.

[bmags]

For instance, has there been one debate to address the absolutely insane tax plans of the republican candidates? There's been plenty of dem pushback on the growth rate claims of Bernie Sanders.

[southsider2k5]

I know you are of a different political persuasion. But I think having watched the Dem debates seen them go into the minutae of specific bills, and go into detailed policy debates to find the edge for candidates, I just think it's absurd to be like "All people care about is sound bytes, therefore Hillary, Bernie, Trumpa nd Cruz".

 

The dem debate has not been about sound bites. It has been about policy and who can push the most progressive, and what is too progressive.

 

It has not been an angry temper tantrum to decide which strong man will go to congress and call them idiots and then the country is saved!

 

Basically, this primary season has been polar opposite, so I don't understand the "#bothsides" of it.

 

The Sanders campaign and followers have been the king of the memes this election cycle from what I have seen.

[bmags]

They've certainly been meme-y about delegate math and fairness, but the detbates have been a question about history of legislation and the battle between idealism and pragmatism. Which is better than an intellectual battle of idealism vs. nihilism.

[cabiness42]

I know you are of a different political persuasion. But I think having watched the Dem debates seen them go into the minutae of specific bills, and go into detailed policy debates to find the edge for candidates, I just think it's absurd to be like "All people care about is sound bytes, therefore Hillary, Bernie, Trumpa nd Cruz".

 

The dem debate has not been about sound bites. It has been about policy and who can push the most progressive, and what is too progressive.

 

It has not been an angry temper tantrum to decide which strong man will go to congress and call them idiots and then the country is saved!

 

Basically, this primary season has been polar opposite, so I don't understand the "#bothsides" of it.

 

I agree that the candidates themselves have been more substantive on the Democratic side (though Kasich had remained almost entirely substantive until just recently), Bernie and Hillary supporters by and large have fallen into the same mudslinging the the Republicans have.

[Reddy]

This is just as apt as calling anyone who votes for Bernie Sanders a communist.

OK, but do you have a response? Who pays for public services without taxes?

[southsider2k5]

OK, but do you have a response? Who pays for public services without taxes?

 

Considering about 45% of people paid no federal income taxes? I'd say the other half of the country.

[Reddy]

Considering about 45% of people paid no federal income taxes? I'd say the other half of the country.

That doesn't actually answer the question of how public services would be maintained under libertarian policies...

[Chisoxfn]

Considering about 45% of people paid no federal income taxes? I'd say the other half of the country.

Really, that many people paid no federal income taxes?

[southsider2k5]

Really, that many people paid no federal income taxes?

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-02-25/4...eral-income-tax

 

[StrangeSox]

That is generally due to the eitc, which was actually a quasi libertarian version of a basic income pushed by Milton Friedman.

[Reddy]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-02-25/4...eral-income-tax

 

 

Still no public services answer in Libertarianism?

 

[southsider2k5]

Still no public services answer in Libertarianism?

 

Since when did I become the spokesperson for the Libertarians? This is like asking who is going to work if a Democrat is elected because the natural progression of progressiveism is communism.

[Reddy]

Since when did I become the spokesperson for the Libertarians? This is like asking who is going to work if a Democrat is elected because the natural progression of progressiveism is communism.

You said you'd vote for Gary Johnson, so you must have a grasp of his policies and the ramifications of said policies, yes?

[southsider2k5]

You said you'd vote for Gary Johnson, so you must have a grasp of his policies and the ramifications of said policies, yes?

 

A grasp of his policies, lol. That is pretty ironic coming from someone who is voting for a person that doesn't hold convictions towards basically any policies.

 

Johnson is very much a protest vote in an election that is very wing oriented.

[Reddy]

A grasp of his policies, lol. That is pretty ironic coming from someone who is voting for a person that doesn't hold convictions towards basically any policies.

 

Johnson is very much a protest vote in an election that is very wing oriented.

Glad you can answer the question.

[southsider2k5]

Glad you can answer the question.

 

The ramifications of policy positions don't matter nearly as much when a candidate won't follow through on policy positions if popular opinion changes.

 

I mean seriously. Do you want the candidate who was for civil rights all along, or do you want the candidate who was evetually for civil rights, after previously working against them? Do you want the candidate who was always against war, or the candidate who voted for it, changed her mind, but then supported getting into another war in Libya?

 

If you are going to vote for someone because they hold your convictions, I would damned well want to know that those convictions are actually valuable to them. In no way, shape, or form, can you say that about Hillary Clinton. You also can't say that about Bill Clinton, or Donald Trump, just so you don't try to falsely equate that to sexism again.

[Reddy]

The ramifications of policy positions don't matter nearly as much when a candidate won't follow through on policy positions if popular opinion changes.

 

I mean seriously. Do you want the candidate who was for civil rights all along, or do you want the candidate who was evetually for civil rights, after previously working against them? Do you want the candidate who was always against war, or the candidate who voted for it, changed her mind, but then supported getting into another war in Libya?

 

If you are going to vote for someone because they hold your convictions, I would damned well want to know that those convictions are actually valuable to them. In no way, shape, or form, can you say that about Hillary Clinton. You also can't say that about Bill Clinton, or Donald Trump, just so you don't try to falsely equate that to sexism again.

 

I want the candidate who can vote with conviction, and if it turns out to be a mistake, can own up to it and say she made a mistake. I'm looking for a candidate who can reevaluate positions when presented with new information. I like people who change. I like people who grow. You don't?

[southsider2k5]

I want the candidate who can vote with conviction, and if it turns out to be a mistake, can own up to it and say she made a mistake. I'm looking for a candidate who can reevaluate positions when presented with new information. I like people who change. I like people who grow. You don't?

 

Wouldn't you rather vote for the candidate who doesn't have the long history of making the mistakes, (some of them important ones that were repeated)?

[Reddy]

Wouldn't you rather vote for the candidate who doesn't have the long history of making the mistakes, (some of them important ones that were repeated)?

Honestly? No. Because that candidate doesn't exist. And Bernie is the candidate who can't get anything done NOW - and to me, that's more important.

[cabiness42]

"If you're doing everything right, but find it harder and harder to get by, you're not alone." -Bernie Sanders commercial

 

So for all you perfect people out there who never do anything wrong, Bernie's you guy!!

[bmags]

Of all the things to criticize...

[cabiness42]

Of all the things to criticize...

 

It's essentially telling people that that the government should take care of them completely and they have no accountability of their own. "You're perfect and your life still sucks! The government should do more!"

[StrangeSox]

Nah that's not the message