Flash Tizzle

They probably never even mentioned his name. I guarantee he would have been theirs for the taking, you never heard anyone claiming he was untouchable. Their focus was probably pitching and pitching alone

Mistakes of that magnitude cannot be made. Especially since we're trying so hard to trade for and/or develop quality prospects, and if we had done nothing at all we'd be in a better position. I know people have argued that trade and subsequent failures may have propelled the rebuild. Although we had absolutely no purpose for Shields at the point of the trade to begin with. It was a horrible job all around.

Wouldn't you think the Padres were having the same exact thought process? "He has no value and isn't bringing back a Top 100 prospect." If it happened to Hahn, why can't it happen to another GM? The Padres obviously knew who they were receiving and we embarrassingly no clue of who were giving up. Let's start expecting more from Hahn. It's vitally important for our future to have one of those types of trades. If we don't get a Rizzo or Arrieta, crap for gold type of deals, we're relying on FA, equal value, or our minor league system. Call it dumb luck, or whatever; but we need some our way

We always have such low expectations. Why are we always assuming returns will be minimal? If Tatis Jr can be received from Shields or Arrieta from Cashner, we can't just have this defeatist mentality. It's the responsibility of our organization to take advantage of another team's weakness in evaluating their players. If it happen to us, why can't we expect the same from Hahn?

If they fail to develop the young talent at their disposal, especially after last years trades, it proves one of two scenarios -- either the players weren't worthy of their hype, or the Sox organization failed at developing and/or maintaining their health. Someone said earlier it doesn't matter which players succeed, as long as some of them do. Absolutely not true. You mean to tell me if Hansen, Collins, Stephens, and Burger are the future high-end talent from within the organization, it wouldn't matter that none of the players we acquired in recent trades succeeded? That would be a terrible indictment of our organization. Every major trade (Eaton/Quintana/Sale) NEEDS two, at the absolute minimum one successful and contributing part to push forward this rebuild. Hahn also needs two other factors to go his way for this team to reach its potential -- a crap for gold type of trade, and a low value, high return FA signing. Every WS team has a combination of internal development, FA signings, and those one-sided trades. I know it seems obvious, but atleast two/three need to happen. Hahn has been miserable in both categories, and our minor league development (while on the right track) has experienced the built in excuse of injuries, as of now. It's not enough to trade highly valued players for a highly valued return; no, you need a Cashner for Arrieta trade. One where an absolute stud is received for garbage. Basically what Shields for Tatis Jr did......but benefitting us.

No greater insult can be given. I've been ready for a rebuild since 2007 lol. I believe it's reasonable to worry about Moncada if, after the conclusion of the season, he hasn't improved. I'd place a .245/.320/.700+OPS slash as an expected goal. That doesn't mean abandon him for 2019 or line up replacements. We've seen with Avi Garcia how long it can take for everything to click. I understand it's a process, but perhaps I just expected more out of Moncada then many here did.

That's not really an update though. How is it nothing more has come out in the last few hours?

If Moncada doesn't reach that reasonable benchmark, it's time to openly criticize the organization. Either they overestimated Moncada (their fault) or don't have the coaches capable of working with him (again their fault). A rebuild is obviously an opportunity for development, but he isn't learning in a vacuum -- his value is tied to an unprecedented trade deal involving a perrenial Cy Young contender/possible HOF pitcher. We didn't trade Sale to accept a 2 year learning curve for a highly regarded prospect. I feel like we constantly lose sight of the value we traded. There's no room for excuses or errors. They need to fix it, or else, may as well complete the rebuild and fix the front office. That's just Moncada, mind you. We haven't even been treated with Kopech and Jimenez yet; but I'll set the stage now. "You can't expect every prospect to immediately succeed and sustain success!" Well, how about 1?

I'd imagine it was the coaching staff being overly cautious. He probably felt a tweak.

I'd expect immediate value to favor Boston, and of course the long-game here (as with any prospect deal) is meant to favor us. This should all but be guaranteed when dealing someone of Sale's stature when considering age, performance and contract value.

At a minimum the value needs to be equal. Although we should expect value from Moncada, Kopech, Basabe to exceed Sale -- otherwise why bother unless we expected to come ahead

He certaintly hasn't regressed in value, that much is obvious. There's probably not one person in Boston who is regretting that trade now.

We cannot have both sides of the argument -- either Moncada is a player with trememdous potential who (for whatever reason) is inexplicably falling apart; or practically everyone aside from Boston overvalued him. Which is it? We can never forget he was the centerpiece of the Chris Sale trade. No matter how we try to make excuses, he was not expected to be performing this poorly 570 abs into his career. Is it just too much to expect immediate success? It'd be a huge morale boost for the entire rebuild to atleast point to ONE example. I honestly fear what these forums become if Kopech and Jimenez struggle immediately. At some point, of all the pieces need to begin fitting together. No more Giolito projects or acceptance of our highly touted players floundering around.

It's amazing how quickly he deterioated. He's a cornerstone of our rebuild and watching him play is embarrassing lately. How the hell did he become this bad?

It's not a blow.....as long as no other starting pitcher experiences any significant setback.