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Marlins scouting Mig Gonzalez

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QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 10:10 AM)
Can't believe Miguel Gonzalez is getting trade interest, hope it grows, Kolek is almost absolutely not being dealt while Naylor is a major long shot

 

I'd take RHPs Austin Brice and Cody Poteet for Miguel

 

Kolek could be an interesting name. Maybe with the surgery they have interest in moving him instead of waiting to see if he is the same pitcher again.

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 10:18 AM)
Sox signed him to a minor league deal. He makes much less than $5M, more like $500k.

 

The contract he signed with the Orioles to avoid arbitration was 1 year $5.1 million. The Orioles released him before it became guaranteed and paid him the required 25% buyout much like the Sox did with Viciedo. I would think that the $5.1 million is the number an arbitrator would look at if it goes to arbitration next year.

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QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 10:50 AM)
The contract he signed with the Orioles to avoid arbitration was 1 year $5.1 million. The Orioles released him before it became guaranteed and paid him the required 25% buyout much like the Sox did with Viciedo. I would think that the $5.1 million is the number an arbitrator would look at if it goes to arbitration next year.

 

Right, but the team acquiring him (if traded) is on the hook for the pro-rated amount of the $5-600k.

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 10:51 AM)
Right, but the team acquiring him (if traded) is on the hook for the pro-rated amount of the $5-600k.

 

Right but I think Lillian's post was more concerning what his salary would be next year in his final arbitration year. And that number I think will be based off of the $5.1 million deal he signed and not the $1.25 million + major league minimum that he was actually paid this year.

Edited by lasttriptotulsa

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QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 10:58 AM)
Right but I think Lillian's post was more concerning what his salary would be next year in his final arbitration year. And that number I think will be based off of the $5.1 million deal he signed and not the $1.25 million + major league minimum that he was actually paid this year.

 

Yessir.

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QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 10:58 AM)
Right but I think Lillian's post was more concerning what his salary would be next year in his final arbitration year. And that number I think will be based off of the $5.1 million deal he signed and not the $1.25 million + major league minimum that he was actually paid this year.

 

 

Arbitration is based off of comparable players. His salary this year is meaningless. They want to know what players in their 5th year got in comparison to the stats that the player and his comparisons have put up. If they offer arb, that is what will be looked at.

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Also wouldn't be surprised to see Shields moved again, he has been pretty good after his first three disastrous outings here. Contract is very affordable now.

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QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 11:22 AM)
Also wouldn't be surprised to see Shields moved again, he has been pretty good after his first three disastrous outings here. Contract is very affordable now.

 

 

On this market, if someone believes Shields is fixed that could be huge.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 11:06 AM)
Arbitration is based off of comparable players. His salary this year is meaningless. They want to know what players in their 5th year got in comparison to the stats that the player and his comparisons have put up. If they offer arb, that is what will be looked at.

 

Prior year salaries are not meaningless.

 

From the CBA

 

Maximum Salary Reduction

(1) Maximum Salary Cut Rule

A Club may not tender, sign or renew a Player under reserve to

the Club pursuant to Article XX(A) of this Agreement and paragraph

10(a) of the Uniform Player’s Contract to a Uniform Player’s

Contract that provides a salary for:

 

(a) Major League service that constitutes a reduction in

excess of 20% of his salary for Major League service in the previous

season or in excess of 30% of his salary for Major League

service two seasons prior to the first season covered by the new

contract

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 11:23 AM)
On this market, if someone believes Shields is fixed that could be huge.

 

I'd prefer to keep him. We need pitching.

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 11:34 AM)
I'd prefer to keep him. We need pitching.

They can't trade all fo the pitching. They either keep the back end of the rotation or trade one of the top of the rotation. If they rrade 3 out of the 5 with what they have in the system it will be a long, long rebuild.

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QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 11:24 AM)
Prior year salaries are not meaningless.

 

From the CBA

 

Maximum Salary Reduction

(1) Maximum Salary Cut Rule

A Club may not tender, sign or renew a Player under reserve to

the Club pursuant to Article XX(A) of this Agreement and paragraph

10(a) of the Uniform Player's Contract to a Uniform Player's

Contract that provides a salary for:

 

(a) Major League service that constitutes a reduction in

excess of 20% of his salary for Major League service in the previous

season or in excess of 30% of his salary for Major League

service two seasons prior to the first season covered by the new

contract

 

He isn't getting a paycut, which is what the provision is about. This is what is looked at.

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article....articleid=15864

What criteria are admissible? What is inadmissible?

The Collective Bargaining specifically outlines what can and what cannot be brought up by either side's representatives. If evidence is brought up that is not specifically listed in the CBA it is not to be considered by the arbitrators.

 

The following evidence is admissable:

  1. The quality of the player's contribution to his club during the past season (including but not limited to his overall performance, special qualities of leadership and public appeal).
  2. The length and consistency of his career contribution.
  3. The record of the player's past compensation.
  4. Comparative baseball salaries (the arbitration panel is provided with a table of confidential baseball salaries for all players broken down by years of service).
  5. The existence of any physical or mental defects on the part of the player.
  6. The recent performance of the club, including but not limited to his league standing and attendance.
The following evidence is inadmissible:

 

  1. The financial position of the player and the club (though player representatives often try to get this information in the back door by presenting attendance information that implies the health of a club's revenue streams).
  2. Press comments, testimonials or similar material bearing on the performance of either the player or the club, except for recognized annual player awards for playing excellence.
  3. Offers made by either the player or the club prior to arbitration.
  4. Cost to the parties of their representatives.
  5. Salaries in other sports or occupations.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 11:45 AM)
Kolek could be an interesting name. Maybe with the surgery they have interest in moving him instead of waiting to see if he is the same pitcher again.

Although Kolek has awful stats and is now recovering from TJS I'd take a Gonzalez-Kolek swap in a heartbeat being that Gonzalez is a luxury and Kolek's prospect status

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QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 12:22 PM)
Also wouldn't be surprised to see Shields moved again, he has been pretty good after his first three disastrous outings here. Contract is very affordable now.

Even though he's pitching well as of late that contract is sickening. If he's movable you have to move him. The return may not be strong (2-3 low level prospects) but his contract is too heavy on a team that already seems to have 4 set starters for next year in Sale, Q, Rodon, and Fulmer (Yes, I believe Sale and Q will remain Sox and they will)

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QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 12:52 PM)
Although Kolek has awful stats and is now recovering from TJS I'd take a Gonzalez-Kolek swap in a heartbeat being that Gonzalez is a luxury and Kolek's prospect status

I don't think I have words for how great a deal that would be

 

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 12:23 PM)
On this market, if someone believes Shields is fixed that could be huge.

Could definitely see Boston's and LAD's interest grow on Shields, especially if he pitches well today

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QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 11:55 AM)
Even though he's pitching well as of late that contract is sickening. If he's movable you have to move him. The return may not be strong (2-3 low level prospects) but his contract is too heavy on a team that already seems to have 4 set starters for next year in Sale, Q, Rodon, and Fulmer (Yes, I believe Sale and Q will remain Sox and they will)

 

The Shields contract isn't bad. At least for us it isn't since technically San Diego is paying for it.

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QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 11:58 AM)
Could definitely see Boston's and LAD's interest grow on Shields, especially if he pitches well today

 

Heck maybe Miami's scouts will stick around today. They had interest in Shields too a couple years ago I believe.

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QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 12:57 PM)
I don't think I have words for how great a deal that would be

Personally feel like Kolek has "Bust" written all over him but I'd no doubt pull the trigger on that while I still think it's highly unlikely

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Why would you trade Gonzalez just to trade him? He has more value to the Sox than a team like the Marlins, especially if they move Sale or Quintana.

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QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 12:59 PM)
The Shields contract isn't bad. At least for us it isn't since technically San Diego is paying for it.

Smart call, really do feel like this is his ceiling in Chicago though while I certainly hope he can maintain it

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QUOTE (Dunt @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 01:05 PM)
Why would you trade Gonzalez just to trade him? He has more value to the Sox than a team like the Marlins, especially if they move Sale or Quintana.

They won't be moving Sale or Q anytime soon

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QUOTE (Dunt @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 01:05 PM)
Why would you trade Gonzalez just to trade him? He has more value to the Sox than a team like the Marlins, especially if they move Sale or Quintana.

 

Because Kolek is an arm the Sox could definitely develop. It'd be like getting a more hyped version of Montas for Miguel Gonzalez.

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QUOTE (Dunt @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 12:05 PM)
Why would you trade Gonzalez just to trade him? He has more value to the Sox than a team like the Marlins, especially if they move Sale or Quintana.

 

I think it's more realistic they deal him than Sale or Quintana.

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