Creative Trades

[Chicago White Sox]

17 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

Something like Carlos Santana and Nick Williams for Nate Jones, Jordan Stephens and Bernardo Flores. Phillies take on a few mil of Santana's 2020 season as well...

Not to be a dick, but I don’t understand why we would ever make that trade.  Nick Williams isn’t worth taking on Santana’s contract and giving up three pieces on top of it (even for a small discount) doesn’t make a lick of sense to me.  What does this move accomplish for us exactly?

[GreenSox]

The Sox have no use for Santana; and trading 2 young pitching prospects with this thin staff?  Nix.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Swap Williams with JP Crawford and I'd consider it.

[wrathofhahn]

10 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Not to be a dick, but I don’t understand why we would ever make that trade.  Nick Williams isn’t worth taking on Santana’s contract and giving up three pieces on top of it (even for a small discount) doesn’t make a lick of sense to me.  What does this move accomplish for us exactly?

It would take one prospect plus one interesting guy for me to get interested. Brohm or Medina. Then someone like Ortiz.

Santana contract is bad. Phillies GM says he wants Machado and or Harper. I'm fine with helping him make two stupid decisions if he wants. Santana is probably worth a little less then half what he is being paid.

[TheFutureIsNear]

14 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Not to be a dick, but I don’t understand why we would ever make that trade.  Nick Williams isn’t worth taking on Santana’s contract and giving up three pieces on top of it (even for a small discount) doesn’t make a lick of sense to me.  What does this move accomplish for us exactly?

I guess I don’t view Santana as much of a negative as you...I’m viewing him as the 3 WAR player he was for the Indiana in his extended time in our division. Of course his contract isn’t appealing, but I also don’t think it’s THAT bad. If we are apparently interested in Nelson Cruz, Santana isn’t crazy at all.

 

And I would trade Stephens and Bernardo for Williams I’m a heart beat. But again, maybe I’m too high on him. I think he could be a 25-30 HR regular hitting like .260/.330/.460 with above average D in a corner spot. I view Stephens and Bernardo as average middle relievers in 5 years....

[wrathofhahn]

55 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

I guess I don’t view Santana as much of a negative as you...I’m viewing him as the 3 WAR player he was for the Indiana in his extended time in our division. Of course his contract isn’t appealing, but I also don’t think it’s THAT bad. If we are apparently interested in Nelson Cruz, Santana isn’t crazy at all.

 

And I would trade Stephens and Bernardo for Williams I’m a heart beat. But again, maybe I’m too high on him. I think he could be a 25-30 HR regular hitting like .260/.330/.460 with above average D in a corner spot. I view Stephens and Bernardo as average middle relievers in 5 years....

Sanatana is not coming off that kind of season. Cruz isn't getting 20 million and is was the much better hitter last year. Not really even comparable.

I'd probably peg him at 1/8 in FA coming off that year. Problem is he's owed around 42 million over the next two years. Even if he somehow got 2/20 thats 22 million we'd be eating.

That amount of value has to be made up somewhere not to mention they would likely be moving him to create space to sign somebody that is when you can get them to pay a little extra. Otherwise we can go out and sign a veteran reclamation DH. They grow on trees.

Matt Adams

Lucas Duda

Evan Gattis

Logan Morrison

Carlos Gonzalez

Marwin Gonzalez

 

 

 

[Chicago White Sox]

8 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

Sanatana is not coming off that kind of season. Cruz isn't getting 20 million and is was the much better hitter last year. Not really even comparable.

I'd probably peg him at 1/8 in FA coming off that year. Problem is he's owed around 42 million over the next two years. Even if he somehow got 2/20 thats 22 million we'd be eating.

That amount of value has to be made up somewhere not to mention they would likely be moving him to create space to sign somebody that is when you can get them to pay a little extra. Otherwise we can go out and sign a veteran reclamation DH. They grow on trees.

Matt Adams

Lucas Duda

Evan Gattis

Logan Morrison

Carlos Gonzalez

Marwin Gonzalez

 

 

 

I agree with your general points here, but not sure how Marwin Gonzalez falls into the “veteran reclamation DH” category.

[wrathofhahn]

3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I agree with your general points here, but not sure how Marwin Gonzalez falls into the “veteran reclamation DH” category.

I think people are severely overestimating the market for Marwin.

But we will see. Boras is playing the media game using his stooges to try and convince people he's worth much more then he is. It's worked before maybe it does again.

He has a career OPS of .737. OPS of .733 last year. Mainly plays LF/1B/DH. He's worth a flyer to see if he can return to 2017 but MLBTR is predicting 4/36 which is insane to me. He is a 1 or 2 year deal. I'd offer 2/15 max.

Marwin last year was worth 1.6 WAR according to fangraphs

Diaz last year was worth 1.6 WAR according to fangraphs

Marwin had 100 extra PA.

Edited November 17, 2018 by wrathofhahn

[Chicago White Sox]

35 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

I think people are severely overestimating the market for Marwin.

But we will see. Boras is playing the media game using his stooges to try and convince people he's worth much more then he is. It's worked before maybe it does again.

He has a career OPS of .737. OPS of .733 last year. Mainly plays LF/1B/DH. He's worth a flyer to see if he can return to 2017 but MLBTR is predicting 4/36 which is insane to me. He is a 1 or 2 year deal. I'd offer 2/15 max.

He’s played more innings at SS than any other position in the majors.  I think you’re confusing his recent usage and assuming a lack ability and not realizing a lot of it is simply team need.

[oldsox]

5 hours ago, wrathofhahn said:

Sanatana is not coming off that kind of season. Cruz isn't getting 20 million and is was the much better hitter last year. Not really even comparable.

I'd probably peg him at 1/8 in FA coming off that year. Problem is he's owed around 42 million over the next two years. Even if he somehow got 2/20 thats 22 million we'd be eating.

That amount of value has to be made up somewhere not to mention they would likely be moving him to create space to sign somebody that is when you can get them to pay a little extra. Otherwise we can go out and sign a veteran reclamation DH. They grow on trees.

Matt Adams

Lucas Duda

Evan Gattis

Logan Morrison

Carlos Gonzalez

Marwin Gonzalez

 

 

 

FIrst, if the Sox sign Cargo, which won't happen, he would likely NOT be a DH.  He is a better defensive OF than any of our corner guys.  Wrong tree.

[Dam8610]

Since we're discussing Santana, how realistic was my idea? As a reminder, it was Odubel Herrera and Carlos Santana for Jose Abreu and Yolmer Sanchez.

[Chicago White Sox]

11 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

Since we're discussing Santana, how realistic was my idea? As a reminder, it was Odubel Herrera and Carlos Santana for Jose Abreu and Yolmer Sanchez.

They want trade Santana to open up 1B for Hoskins, so I’m not sure why’d want Abreu.

[Bob Sacamano]

13 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

They want trade Santana to open up 1B for Hoskins, so I’m not sure why’d want Abreu.

Yep. It's more about opening up 1B than it is money.

[wrathofhahn]

1 minute ago, soxfan2014 said:

Yep. It's more about opening up 1B than it is money.

It's both.

Hoskins is terrible at LF. Like historically bad. He's also more productive and cheaper then Santana it's really a no brainer for them. Oh and also no DH.

Ideally we'd acquire Santana for prospects then move Abreu at somepoint next season. Phillies have Brohm whose blocked at 3B with Franco and 1B with Hoskins. He'd be a nice get.

[wrathofhahn]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

He’s played more innings at SS than any other position in the majors.  I think you’re confusing his recent usage and assuming a lack ability and not realizing a lot of it is simply team need.

How have those innings went? He has a career UZR/150 of -6.9 at SS which awful. He is a big - at every position except those I mentioned. The only reason why the Astros even played him at 2B/3B/SS was because it freed up a spot for a reliever and they didn't have to keep some MI stiff who couldn't hit on the roster. He's a 1B/LF

Edited November 18, 2018 by wrathofhahn

[Chicago White Sox]

12 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

It's both.

Hoskins is terrible at LF. Like historically bad. He's also more productive and cheaper then Santana it's really a no brainer for them. Oh and also no DH.

Ideally we'd acquire Santana for prospects then move Abreu at somepoint next season. Phillies have Brohm whose blocked at 3B with Franco and 1B with Hoskins. He'd be a nice get.

I don’t follow at all.  Why are we trading prospects for an overpaid 1B/DH?  How does Bohm fit into any of this?  And I don’t understand how Franco is blocking anyone (he’s not good), especially the #3 pick in last year’s draft who is multiple years away.

[Dam8610]

I just want Herrera. If the Sox take on Santana, what would they need to give up to get him?

[wrathofhahn]

14 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I don’t follow at all.  Why are we trading prospects for an overpaid 1B/DH?  How does Bohm fit into any of this?  And I don’t understand how Franco is blocking anyone (he’s not good), especially the #3 pick in last year’s draft who is multiple years away.

To be clear:

We wouldn't be trading prospects Santana has - value. Franco put up very good numbers last year in a pitchers park. Their owner has talked about spending stupid money and they have been linked to both Machado and Harper. Machado obviously makes the decision to trade Brohm more likely.

Where Brohm was picked doesn't really impact on anything. I mean from a PR standpoint it maybe embarrassing but he was never really the 3rd overall talent. He signed well below slot. MLB.com has him ranked as the 50th ranked prospect right now.

Like I said in the other post I need a very good prospect to take back Santana salary. He's probably over paid by at least 22 million over the next two years whether that be Brohm or Medina. Otherwise I'd rather not bother.

 

Edited November 18, 2018 by wrathofhahn

[Chicago White Sox]

15 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

How have those innings went? He has a career UZR/150 of -6.9 at SS which awful. He is a big - at every position except those I mentioned. The only reason why the Astros even played him at 2B/3B/SS was because it freed up a spot for a reliever and they didn't have to keep some MI stiff who couldn't hit on the roster. He's a 1B/LF

It’s not good, but I wouldn’t call it awful, especially not for a backup who also provides an above league average bat.  His entire value prop is can play all over the field without killing you and actually provide some offense.  In today’s game that’s incredibly valuable.

[Chicago White Sox]

16 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

To be clear:

We wouldn't be trading prospects Santana has - value. Franco put up very good numbers last year in a pitchers park. Their owner has talked about spending stupid money and they have been linked to both Machado and Harper. Machado obviously makes the decision to trade Brohm more likely.

Where Brohm was picked doesn't really impact on anything. I mean from a PR standpoint it maybe embarrassing but he was never really the 3rd overall talent. He signed well below slot. MLB.com has him ranked as the 50th ranked prospect right now.

 

His last name is Bohm, not Brohm.  And lots of people / publications had him in the #3 / #4 mix.  He may have signed for underslot, but he was far from a reach. I’m not sure what you’re trying to accomplish by showing him as the #50 prospect other than to prove he’s an incredibly valuable talent who will be costly to acquire.  The Phillies will be in no rush to trade the kid, even if they sign Machado.  I’m still not understanding how Bohm fits into all this.

Edited November 18, 2018 by Chicago White Sox

[Dam8610]

While I'd love to get Alec Bohm, that isn't happening.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

6 hours ago, Dam8610 said:

While I'd love to get Alec Bohm, that isn't happening.

Speaking of Bohm, he somehow hit 0 HR in 40 pro games last year, and only 8 XBH. Dude must have been super worn out after college ball.

[Flash]

Would love to see Sox sign Corbin, Happ and/or Keuchel or trade for Paxton to solidify top of rotation. Extend whoever they sign through 2022. Among FAs, I would try to sign Jed Lowrie (2yrs plus option at $10M/per) and Michael Brantley (2yrs plus option at $12.5/per) and trade for Carlos Santana (read where he is owed $35.5M over next 2 years). This would be a good offseasons work. Would move Moncada to 3rd and play Lowrie at 2nd to see if Yoan has it in him. Can swap them around if Yoan can't handle corner. Lowry and Santana are switch hitters who are hard to strike out. Same with Brantley from right side. Eloy can play LF against RH pitchers and DH vs. LH to get a strong LH hitter (Palka?) into the lineup vs. RHrs. Brantley starts in RF and Sanatana mans 1B (sorry Jose). In this scenario, Abreu and Avi are traded. Sox would have a very balanced lineup with 3 switch hitters (Santana, Moncada and Lowrie) plus added power from right side in Brantley. All three acquisitions should have a positive influence on the at bat discipline of Moncada and Anderson. Guessing the net added cost per year to be in the $30-40 million range after moving Abreu and Avi.    

[bschmaranz]

5 minutes ago, Flash said:

Would love to see Sox sign Corbin, Happ and/or Keuchel or trade for Paxton to solidify top of rotation. Extend whoever they sign through 2022. Among FAs, I would try to sign Jed Lowrie (2yrs plus option at $10M/per) and Michael Brantley (2yrs plus option at $12.5/per) and trade for Carlos Santana (read where he is owed $35.5M over next 2 years). This would be a good offseasons work. Would move Moncada to 3rd and play Lowrie at 2nd to see if Yoan has it in him. Can swap them around if Yoan can't handle corner. Lowry and Santana are switch hitters who are hard to strike out. Same with Brantley from right side. Eloy can play LF against RH pitchers and DH vs. LH to get a strong LH hitter (Palka?) into the lineup vs. RHrs. Brantley starts in RF and Sanatana mans 1B (sorry Jose). In this scenario, Abreu and Avi are traded. Sox would have a very balanced lineup with 3 switch hitters (Santana, Moncada and Lowrie) plus added power from right side in Brantley. All three acquisitions should have a positive influence on the at bat discipline of Moncada and Anderson. Guessing the net added cost per year to be in the $30-40 million range after moving Abreu and Avi.    

Only comment I'd have about all this is Brantley has never played RF.  I like the rest of it though.  Lowrie is an awesome bridge get for a couple years. 

[Chicago White Sox]

If Jon Gray is unattainable, I would love to get me some Jeff Hoffman.  I have no idea what we could offer though.  They still could use catching help, but Castillo has little to no trade value and Narvaez is such a polarizing guy because of his defense.  Abreu theoretically could be a fit to address offensive needs, but he’s coming off a disappointing season, will make a lot of money, and only has one year of control left.  I’m guessing the Rockies will explore cheaper options.