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COVID-19/Coronavirus thread

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19 minutes ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

Why do people keep responding to Greg here? He's obviously trolling. People take the bait every time. 

Because the mask and haircut storyline has dragged on for so many weeks, there has to be a catharsis/conclusion. 

Or for the same reason Jose Abreu debates never die, although they just might fade away. 

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1 hour ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

Why do people keep responding to Greg here? He's obviously trolling. People take the bait every time. 

I could put him on ignore, but someone needs to call him out on his BS and try to engage him to see if he responds. You’re right, people do take the bait when he incessantly posts over and over about how the governor took away his rights to church, access to coffee, access to masks and an unwillingness to do cloth masks, access to a haircut and his normal life. 

We could all ignore him, but it would take a team effort. And we could have to feel comfortable with some information being peddled without being responded to and challenged. It is a message board and in the grand scheme of things it doesn’t matter, but in a larger picture, I respond to people from another train of thought to learn and at times, challenge them over what the truth is.

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7 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

I find it ironic you call the governors bullies when the biggest bully in history is in the WH. The reason we have to go through this is because of the very slow federal response. I read where if everyone wore masks and practiced social distancing the cases and death toll would be 12% of what the are.  The only reason Trump is all about opening up is because his advisors at Fox News told him he has no shot of being re-elected if the economy is still in the gutter on Election Day. Things would go back to a lot closer to normal if you follow the science, but unfortunately people who supposedly have no jobs and have no money and are about to commit suicide, jubilantly packed bars and restaurants in Wisconsin. Do you really think they are going to prove the science wrong?

 

Eric Trump said yesterday the Democrats cooked up Covid 19 to keep Donald Trump from holding his rallies. Apparently they organized it so well the rest of the earth agreed to participate. He said once Election Day comes and goes, the virus will magically disappear. These people are crazy.

Two things: 1.) Trump is a TV personality, an entitled rich guy who has always been about staying rich and keeping wealthy, a bad president. I'm not sure what we're allowed to say about people before getting banned here so I'll stop there.

2.) To show how we all believe what we believe, you wrote: "unfortunately people who supposedly have no jobs and have no money and are about to commit suicide, jubilantly packed bars and restaurants in Wisconsin." How unfair a sentence was that? Supposedly?? I know tons of people fired or laid off recently. The unemployment numbers, if they are real, are staggering.

A lot of people are suicidal and hurting and have nothing to do with the bargoers. Just trying to show you how we all have our takes and some look unfair to people on the other side.

We aren't "crazy." I think it's a fascinating study in human behavior and the brain. Look at me. It's 1:38 p.m. Sunday and because of all the articles and TV snippets I've caught and dictatorial slow-moving actions by government in Kansas, yes I'm scared to go to church at 5 p.m. today. It's open at 5 p.m. to 70 people and I've been brainwashed (that's probably not the right word) into utter fear (nine weeks of isolation will scramble parts of your brain, Dick Allen). I think I'm going to go and make my donation in the back of the church and see how I feel when I get there. 

Finally ... your comment about science. That's part of the problem. Some of us have family members in medical field and some of us know people who know people who state the corona problem is not that bad and reopening should be done. So good people, ones obeying the rules so far (I've broken no rules and done nothing risky til perhaps going to church today) have their brains muddled and torn by all the different chatter. We don't necessarily believe the science. If that makes us despicable, well there's probably going to be a Civil War in which we could pay for our doubts about the science here.

Edited by greg775
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1 hour ago, The Beast said:

I could put him on ignore, but someone needs to call him out on his BS and try to engage him to see if he responds. You’re right, people do take the bait when he incessantly posts over and over about how the governor took away his rights to church, access to coffee, access to masks and an unwillingness to do cloth masks, access to a haircut and his normal life. 

We could all ignore him, but it would take a team effort. And we could have to feel comfortable with some information being peddled without being responded to and challenged. It is a message board and in the grand scheme of things it doesn’t matter, but in a larger picture, I respond to people from another train of thought to learn and at times, challenge them over what the truth is.

Why ignore me? You can't see from my posts that I am struggling with this issue? Nine weeks locked up is conducive to scrambling one's brain. How the hell are my posts trolling anybody? To those who have tried to educate in this thread, thank you. I read all posts and try to process them with the things being thrown at me here. Life is about processing information from all sides, then trying to make the best possible decisions. I've never told anybody my views are the right ones. I search for the right stance on corona.

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11 minutes ago, greg775 said:

We aren't "crazy." I think it's a fascinating study in human behavior and the brain. Look at me. It's 1:38 p.m. Sunday and because of all the articles and TV snippets I've caught and dictatorial slow-moving actions by government in Kansas, yes I'm scared to go to church at 5 p.m. today. It's open at 5 p.m. to 70 people and I've been brainwashed (that's probably not the right word) into utter fear (nine weeks of isolation will scramble parts of your brain, Dick Allen). I think I'm going to go and make my donation in the back of the church and see how I feel when I get there. 

I would be scared of that situation. The stuff we seem to know right now is that being indoors with people for a long time, particularly when speaking or singing, puts out a large viral load and that those conditions enable it to spread well beyond a social distancing radius. Plus, if you are doing things like "touching surfaces indoors" that other people have touched, that can also be a way to get concentrated transmission. And, we still don't have a good understanding yet of bathrooms. 

Anyway, if you're indoors with a group of 70 people, and they're singing, even if they're wearing masks, there's a good chance that any infected people who showed up would pass it on, and if someone was carrying it and wasn't wearing a mask while singing, the whole room might come down with it. 

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3 hours ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

Why do people keep responding to Greg here? He's obviously trolling. People take the bait every time. 

I can assure you my posts are meant to seek advice from people or to share what's really bothering me. Not meant to troll anybody into a lather. Obviously with all the noise I've processed here and in articles and in some TV noise the dominant part of my brain has me on the caution side of things.

I know a guy in Olathe with a child who yesterday told me he was going to a big BBQ dinner with friends. I asked if he'd wear a mask. He said hell no. Some people are just carefree about all this. Meanwhile I sit in a park isolated on a bench making sure I stay away from people.

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3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I would be scared of that situation. The stuff we seem to know right now is that being indoors with people for a long time, particularly when speaking or singing, puts out a large viral load and that those conditions enable it to spread well beyond a social distancing radius. Plus, if you are doing things like "touching surfaces indoors" that other people have touched, that can also be a way to get concentrated transmission. And, we still don't have a good understanding yet of bathrooms. 

Anyway, if you're indoors with a group of 70 people, and they're singing, even if they're wearing masks, there's a good chance that any infected people who showed up would pass it on, and if someone was carrying it and wasn't wearing a mask while singing, the whole room might come down with it. 

Maybe I'll just go and leave my donation for the past 3 weeks in the back and not attend. Again, it's hard when for the past 25 years you think something is important and fulfilling to do (go to church) and then it's taken away.

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17 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Maybe I'll just go and leave my donation for the past 3 weeks in the back and not attend. Again, it's hard when for the past 25 years you think something is important and fulfilling to do (go to church) and then it's taken away.

I agree, but I think you’d agree that the real shitstorm brewing is unemployment.  People are not taking this seriously enough.  It’s all roses and sunshine right now, but if the restaurant and hotel industries, and basically tourism in general, don’t return within the next two months, there’s going to be total mayhem.  Once all the people who populate those industries stop receiving their little $600 poppers in July...holy shit.  That doesn’t even take into account all the hundreds of thousands of businesses integrated with those industries that may not come back.  
 

Once the $600 goes away, unemployment won’t be enough to control the masses.  That was the whole point of the $600. 

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17 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

I agree, but I think you’d agree that the real shitstorm brewing is unemployment.  People are not taking this seriously enough.  It’s all roses and sunshine right now, but if the restaurant and hotel industries, and basically tourism in general, don’t return within the next two months, there’s going to be total mayhem.  Once all the people who populate those industries stop receiving their little $600 poppers in July...holy shit.  That doesn’t even take into account all the hundreds of thousands of businesses integrated with those industries that may not come back.  
 

Once the $600 goes away, unemployment won’t be enough to control the masses.  That was the whole point of the $600. 

I don't disagree. But like it or not, I'm not going to a restaurant unless either there is virtually zero transmission in my area or until there's a vaccine. I'm not going to a baseball game without a vaccine. I'm not going on a vacation without a vaccine. I'm not going into Kohl's and trying on clothes in a dressing room without a vaccine or virtually zero transmission, I'm not waiting in a Black Friday line without a vaccine. You can declare the doors are open all you want, and even if I keep my job and my health insurance through this, I'm hunkering down for the next year+. 

This is the logical, rational choice for a very large number of people, particularly since we know that it can do serious damage to a large number of healthy people without killing them. So airlines, restaurants, hotels - there is nothing these things can do right now.

You can't just declare "Things are back to normal" even if you have a low level of transmission in an area, because it would be dumb to behave as though it is. And 50, 75% of people in an area are going to understand - while the other 25% are letting themselves get sick, it's really dumb to go out right now. Can a hotel survive if 75% of its demand vanishes? Can a restaurant? No, obviously not.

Which means...if we want these things back in a year, the only plausible answer is continued government support. 

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20 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I don't disagree. But like it or not, I'm not going to a restaurant unless either there is virtually zero transmission in my area or until there's a vaccine. I'm not going to a baseball game without a vaccine. I'm not going on a vacation without a vaccine. I'm not going into Kohl's and trying on clothes in a dressing room without a vaccine or virtually zero transmission, I'm not waiting in a Black Friday line without a vaccine. You can declare the doors are open all you want, and even if I keep my job and my health insurance through this, I'm hunkering down for the next year+. 

 This is the logical, rational choice for a very large number of people, particularly since we know that it can do serious damage to a large number of healthy people without killing them. So airlines, restaurants, hotels - there is nothing these things can do right now.

You can't just declare "Things are back to normal" even if you have a low level of transmission in an area, because it would be dumb to behave as though it is. And 50, 75% of people in an area are going to understand - while the other 25% are letting themselves get sick, it's really dumb to go out right now. Can a hotel survive if 75% of its demand vanishes? Can a restaurant? No, obviously not.

Which means...if we want these things back in a year, the only plausible answer is continued government support. 

So what happens if a viable vaccine takes 10 years to develop.  Do you re-evaluate your risk taking then.  Or are you going to hunker down and live in a cave for 10 years.  While I am hopeful of the existing vaccine research this is a new virus and its not a guarantee that it will be successful.  I mean this is the only problem with waiting for a cure.    I am socially distancing and doing my part.  My job is already 100 percent remote and I am part of most companies critical infrastructure.  A lot of people are not.  My neighbors are acting like its spring break.  One of them had a bonfire in his front yard and I counted over 50 people drinking and not socially distancing.  I don't see how this is going to be sustainable especially here were we really only have a few months of golden weather.  I think is all going to become bedlam in the next few weeks.  Next Saturday is going to be 80+.   

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31 minutes ago, southsideirish71 said:

So what happens if a viable vaccine takes 10 years to develop.  Do you re-evaluate your risk taking then.  Or are you going to hunker down and live in a cave for 10 years.  While I am hopeful of the existing vaccine research this is a new virus and its not a guarantee that it will be successful.  I mean this is the only problem with waiting for a cure.    I am socially distancing and doing my part.  My job is already 100 percent remote and I am part of most companies critical infrastructure.  A lot of people are not.  My neighbors are acting like its spring break.  One of them had a bonfire in his front yard and I counted over 50 people drinking and not socially distancing.  I don't see how this is going to be sustainable especially here were we really only have a few months of golden weather.  I think is all going to become bedlam in the next few weeks.  Next Saturday is going to be 80+.   

If it takes 10 years to develop a vaccine, then first of all I'll be totally amazed that I haven't gotten it by that point as easily as it spreads and given my line of work involves large groups of people. There's lots of ways that can go, but in the hypothetical that we just let 2000 people get it per day in Texas for the next 10 years, that leaves a large portion of the state with no immunity and continual, ongoing transmission all around. In that case, yeah that would be the last time I dine in at a restaurant until it's over, and I'll have to get used to shopping for all my clothes online. That's the world of a high-risk, immune compromised person until this is over.

We've seen from some countries (New Zealand) that it is possible to create a setting that would make me feel safe enough to go out, but as long as there are 1000+ cases per day in this state, nope. There's lots of other ways it could go; you could get transmission down to ~0, you could have it burn through 75% of the state, kill a half million people, and then have it mostly go away because of herd immunity, but strike that balance and yeah, I'll be nervous every time I shop until this is over. Maybe, if I could afford it, in a few years I'd rent an RV and tour some national parks? 

And yeah, you see videos of restaurants and bars here and 1-2 people out of 50 in masks. 25% wearing  them in the grocery store. Big groups of kids playing outdoors or recording Tiktok videos. This state has declared it to be over and commanded the virus to listen, and we're hitting new highs in cases per day quite regularly now. Outdoors maybe we have a shot, it does seem fair to say that transmission chances outdoors are low when there's sunlight and wind to disperse things, but anything indoors? 

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42 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I don't disagree. But like it or not, I'm not going to a restaurant unless either there is virtually zero transmission in my area or until there's a vaccine. I'm not going to a baseball game without a vaccine. I'm not going on a vacation without a vaccine. I'm not going into Kohl's and trying on clothes in a dressing room without a vaccine or virtually zero transmission, I'm not waiting in a Black Friday line without a vaccine. You can declare the doors are open all you want, and even if I keep my job and my health insurance through this, I'm hunkering down for the next year+. 

This is the logical, rational choice for a very large number of people, particularly since we know that it can do serious damage to a large number of healthy people without killing them. So airlines, restaurants, hotels - there is nothing these things can do right now.

You can't just declare "Things are back to normal" even if you have a low level of transmission in an area, because it would be dumb to behave as though it is. And 50, 75% of people in an area are going to understand - while the other 25% are letting themselves get sick, it's really dumb to go out right now. Can a hotel survive if 75% of its demand vanishes? Can a restaurant? No, obviously not.

Which means...if we want these things back in a year, the only plausible answer is continued government support. 

I don't see a reliable vaccine for a while. Or we could see one that is not reliable.

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1 hour ago, Jerksticks said:

I agree, but I think you’d agree that the real shitstorm brewing is unemployment.  People are not taking this seriously enough.  It’s all roses and sunshine right now, but if the restaurant and hotel industries, and basically tourism in general, don’t return within the next two months, there’s going to be total mayhem.  Once all the people who populate those industries stop receiving their little $600 poppers in July...holy shit.  That doesn’t even take into account all the hundreds of thousands of businesses integrated with those industries that may not come back.  
 

Once the $600 goes away, unemployment won’t be enough to control the masses.  That was the whole point of the $600. 

While I don't have sympathy for people not wearing masks, I have plenty sympathy for people up against it economics-wise. But I don't see how pressuring workers to return to infested meat packing plants is the answer. Normal economic policy is not the answer. I don't know what the answer is, but we are not coming close to getting answers from Washington. These problems are huge, and the people there are small-minded.

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1 minute ago, pcq said:

I don't see a reliable vaccine for a while. Or we could see one that is not reliable.

We've never, ever seen biological science mobilizing like it is right now. The US government is in the way of course, and there's going to be issues like "do we have enough glass to hold the vaccines as they're distributed" that the government should be dealing with but it isn't, but with this many candidates it seems likely that we'll get there eventually. I just read a promising paper saying that the immune system T-Cell response to this virus is strong enough that long-term immunity may be possible: 

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/t-cells-found-covid-19-patients-bode-well-long-term-immunity

With the work being done on this thing, and the ways people are trying to shortcut development, I'm genuinely hopeful that there can be one available before the 12 month mark is hit, but if I were a policymaker I'd be asking how we can deal with this for 18 months. 

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Another good day for IL.

20k+ tests, 1700 cases, 8.5% positive rate.

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4 hours ago, greg775 said:

Two things: 1.) Trump is a TV personality, an entitled rich guy who has always been about staying rich and keeping wealthy, a bad president. I'm not sure what we're allowed to say about people before getting banned here so I'll stop there.

2.) To show how we all believe what we believe, you wrote: "unfortunately people who supposedly have no jobs and have no money and are about to commit suicide, jubilantly packed bars and restaurants in Wisconsin." How unfair a sentence was that? Supposedly?? I know tons of people fired or laid off recently. The unemployment numbers, if they are real, are staggering.

A lot of people are suicidal and hurting and have nothing to do with the bargoers. Just trying to show you how we all have our takes and some look unfair to people on the other side.

We aren't "crazy." I think it's a fascinating study in human behavior and the brain. Look at me. It's 1:38 p.m. Sunday and because of all the articles and TV snippets I've caught and dictatorial slow-moving actions by government in Kansas, yes I'm scared to go to church at 5 p.m. today. It's open at 5 p.m. to 70 people and I've been brainwashed (that's probably not the right word) into utter fear (nine weeks of isolation will scramble parts of your brain, Dick Allen). I think I'm going to go and make my donation in the back of the church and see how I feel when I get there. 

Finally ... your comment about science. That's part of the problem. Some of us have family members in medical field and some of us know people who know people who state the corona problem is not that bad and reopening should be done. So good people, ones obeying the rules so far (I've broken no rules and done nothing risky til perhaps going to church today) have their brains muddled and torn by all the different chatter. We don't necessarily believe the science. If that makes us despicable, well there's probably going to be a Civil War in which we could pay for our doubts about the science here.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/27/nyregion/new-york-city-doctor-suicide-coronavirus.html
But what about the top doctors in their fields who are overwhelmed when the virus runs out of control and only triage is possible...which is already the case in numerous rural community hospitals like Gallup, NM?

Being in KS, one has to be aware of Native American populations getting sick, migrant farmworkers and meat processing workers getting sick, military bases (Ft. Riley), homeless veterans, etc.  

 

 

https://www.kcur.org/health/2020-04-06/leawood-kansas-group-seeks-emergency-support-for-struggling-rural-hospitals

Rural hospitals face “catastrophic cash shortages” brought on by the COVID-19 crisis and need congressional action to save them, according to a Leawood, Kansas, advocacy group that represents hundreds of rural hospitals.

In a letter Monday addressed to the leaders of the U.S. House and Senate, the National Rural Health Association asks that 20% of the $100 billion in funding for hospitals in the CARES Act, the $2 trillion coronavirus response bill passed by Congress last month, be set aside for rural providers.  

It also asks Congress to accelerate Medicare payments, ensure that rural hospitals can access the Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) and pass legislation to provide additional funding for rural health care providers. The PPP, also part of the CARES Act, is a $350 billion program aimed at enabling small businesses to keep current workers or rehire those who were laid off.

“The loss of revenue over the last few weeks due to the inability to provide non-emergency care is destabilizing core health services in rural America,” the letter states.

Rural hospitals were hurting before the pandemic, with about half of them posting financial losses. In the last 10 years, 128 rural hospitals have shuttered, including six in Kansas and seven in Missouri, according to the University of North Carolina’s Rural Health Research Program.

Just last month, Sumner Community Hospital in Wellington, Kansas, abruptly closed. The owner of the hospital, Kansas City-based RHG Consolidated, blamed a revenue shortfall and lack of patient demand. The closest hospital is about 25 miles away, in Winfield, Kansas.

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I am at the park in Lawrence, Ks., under the gazebo surfing and I thought I'd update you on my Sunday dilemma and what I've observed today.

-- Texted my brother the nurse in Chicago and told him I was thinking of going to 5 p.m. Mass (70 people max, hand cleanser walking in, three people per row every fourth row, no singing, maximum time had to be 45 mins). I told brother I was getting scared and didnt know if I should go. He said, "GO!" So I went.

-- On the way there I drove thru U of Kansas campus as it's a shortcut to church. As I hit the business building area, there were 6 young women with cap and gown on with adults dressed up. Today would have been graduation day at KU. I honked my horn loudly 3-4 times, gave a thumbs up, and the girls smiled, screamed and waved. I must confess I teared up as college seniors didn't get their graduation. These families obviously did this on their own. KU is SHUT DOWN baby! None of the women or adults had masks on.

-- Got to church and walking up I noticed across the street a party (prolly a makeshift graduation party) of at least 50 people on a lawn. Nobody had masks. Everybody had beer. Typical graduation type party: kids and adults, no masks.

-- Went up to door of church, was mobbed by Knights of Columbus guys putting soap on my hands and making me sign in. They read me the rules. I had my mask on as did they of course. I counted 14 people at Mass. Nobody was seated anywhere near me of course. The Mass took 30 minutes; the visiting priest was from anothe country and I couldn't understand a word he said. They brought in some priests to help out and he is one of them. No hard feelings, I appreciate his service; I just couldn't understand his broken English.

-- Mass ended, I left and got drive through coffee and am at the park. On driving to the park I drove downtown Lawrence and I must say it was pretty crowded for the first time in a long time (we open up Monday). The ice cream store which had one person outside taking orders with the line of customers outside, had a long line with a worker in a mask. Not one person in the line had a mask.

CONCLUSION OF MY DAY: Glad I went to church. If I get the virus from that it was meant to be. I wasn't near anybody. It was good to be back in there. .... I feel like people don't want to wear masks. Get mad all you want. This is my observation. ... Finally I think one of the reasons people are saying F You to lockdown and masks is they don't trust the scientists who are all over TV (the naysayers claim the figures have been off; dont shoot the messenger), they don't approve of power hungry politicians who IN SOME CASES appear too bossy and in love with power and making decisions for political reasons; they are not as scared as before of contracting the virus (they think if they get it  it'll be like any other virus). ... There also is an eerieness about being outside, almost like it will be in the aftermath of a nuclear bomb if and when we ever get bombed. Just a weird vibe.

Now would a troll give u an update like this? I am a concerned citizen and good person who has obeyed all rules. I am not a troll, just arguably a strange person. Peace. Out. (Episode 9 and 10 baby, enjoy Jordan).

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4 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I don't disagree. But like it or not, I'm not going to a restaurant unless either there is virtually zero transmission in my area or until there's a vaccine. I'm not going to a baseball game without a vaccine. I'm not going on a vacation without a vaccine. I'm not going into Kohl's and trying on clothes in a dressing room without a vaccine or virtually zero transmission, I'm not waiting in a Black Friday line without a vaccine. You can declare the doors are open all you want, and even if I keep my job and my health insurance through this, I'm hunkering down for the next year+. 

This is the logical, rational choice for a very large number of people, particularly since we know that it can do serious damage to a large number of healthy people without killing them. So airlines, restaurants, hotels - there is nothing these things can do right now.

You can't just declare "Things are back to normal" even if you have a low level of transmission in an area, because it would be dumb to behave as though it is. And 50, 75% of people in an area are going to understand - while the other 25% are letting themselves get sick, it's really dumb to go out right now. Can a hotel survive if 75% of its demand vanishes? Can a restaurant? No, obviously not.

Which means...if we want these things back in a year, the only plausible answer is continued government support. 

Exactly.  Just because something is open doesn’t mean there will be participation whatsoever.  
 

Who the hell wants to go to a bar, restaurant, plane, train, vacation right now...basically anywhere that isn’t home or the Covid-infested grocery stores.  
 

There’s a ticking nuclear economic missile flying towards us and opening doesn’t stop it.  
 

Just think of all the restaurant pubs bars where some guy or group of people open it up and call it “John’s or Gametime”, or whatever the fuck they think makes it novel because it has TVs and serves booze.  Are those places going to make it?  Rent could be 5-20k alone for some of these places.  It’s a shitshow.  
 

im really scared for when people stop getting that $600.  Maybe it won’t be as bad as I’m saying?
 

I feel like the only things that will stop it are a vaccine or some proof that most people have already been exposed to the virus.  

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21 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I am at the park in Lawrence, Ks., under the gazebo surfing and I thought I'd update you on my Sunday dilemma and what I've observed today.

-- Texted my brother the nurse in Chicago and told him I was thinking of going to 5 p.m. Mass (70 people max, hand cleanser walking in, three people per row every fourth row, no singing, maximum time had to be 45 mins). I told brother I was getting scared and didnt know if I should go. He said, "GO!" So I went.

-- On the way there I drove thru U of Kansas campus as it's a shortcut to church. As I hit the business building area, there were 6 young women with cap and gown on with adults dressed up. Today would have been graduation day at KU. I honked my horn loudly 3-4 times, gave a thumbs up, and the girls smiled, screamed and waved. I must confess I teared up as college seniors didn't get their graduation. These families obviously did this on their own. KU is SHUT DOWN baby! None of the women or adults had masks on.

-- Got to church and walking up I noticed across the street a party (prolly a makeshift graduation party) of at least 50 people on a lawn. Nobody had masks. Everybody had beer. Typical graduation type party: kids and adults, no masks.

-- Went up to door of church, was mobbed by Knights of Columbus guys putting soap on my hands and making me sign in. They read me the rules. I had my mask on as did they of course. I counted 14 people at Mass. Nobody was seated anywhere near me of course. The Mass took 30 minutes; the visiting priest was from anothe country and I couldn't understand a word he said. They brought in some priests to help out and he is one of them. No hard feelings, I appreciate his service; I just couldn't understand his broken English.

-- Mass ended, I left and got drive through coffee and am at the park. On driving to the park I drove downtown Lawrence and I must say it was pretty crowded for the first time in a long time (we open up Monday). The ice cream store which had one person outside taking orders with the line of customers outside, had a long line with a worker in a mask. Not one person in the line had a mask.

CONCLUSION OF MY DAY: Glad I went to church. If I get the virus from that it was meant to be. I wasn't near anybody. It was good to be back in there. .... I feel like people don't want to wear masks. Get mad all you want. This is my observation. ... Finally I think one of the reasons people are saying F You to lockdown and masks is they don't trust the scientists who are all over TV (the naysayers claim the figures have been off; dont shoot the messenger), they don't approve of power hungry politicians who IN SOME CASES appear too bossy and in love with power and making decisions for political reasons; they are not as scared as before of contracting the virus (they think if they get it  it'll be like any other virus). ... There also is an eerieness about being outside, almost like it will be in the aftermath of a nuclear bomb if and when we ever get bombed. Just a weird vibe.

Now would a troll give u an update like this? I am a concerned citizen and good person who has obeyed all rules. I am not a troll, just arguably a strange person. Peace. Out. (Episode 9 and 10 baby, enjoy Jordan).

As long as nobody that gets sick blames their governor for opening up too quickly and providing them a false sense of security...as long as nobody who goes outside without a mask expects to get priority treatment in a hospital or have their medical expenses reimbursed when they are on a ventilator or have a lifelong debilitating lung condition as a result.

It has been pointed out hundreds of times in this thread already...but why do we even need a president if he’s deferring to state governors on every single decision?   Whatever accidentally goes well, he will attempt to take credit for (since he’s just going on gut instinct and the fact an uncle went to MIT) and whatever goes wrong, it gets blamed on the governors, right?

If Trump didn’t care more about reelection (the definition of power hungry), he would have simply declared in February or March that the health of the American people will always be my priority, first and foremost.  That this crisis is a health care crisis, and that only by addressing that first will the economy start to rebound for all Americans.   We all know the answer.

Regardless of the individual actions of politicians, you can’t force now people to spend when every bone in their body says they should save or conserve resources.  It won’t make the majority of people feel safe to return to church, to sports events, to concerts, to fly, to stay in hotels, to malls, to go to a movie...to even go out to eat. As we have now learned, businesses run on just 15-25% margins.  Many will not survive, no matter how many want to go out and enjoy the summer.  You just can’t wish or hope or con or brand your way through a pandemic.   Other than food prices, there’s a tremendous amount of deflationary pressure in the economy.   Yet our president wants negative interest rates for the first time in American history.  He’s just used to borrowing money and not paying it back.  But Americans over 60 still value their lives, they care about the future cost of living, their drugs...and especially the world being left behind for their grandchildren.   

As it turns out, intentionally dividing the country has now made it virtually impossible to get everyone back on the same page...and that is ultimately a failure in leadership.   It’s one thing to win an election, it’s quite another to successfully govern it.

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Drowning in my own fluids to do something that can be done at home 

 

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Just to be Devil's Advocate...

 

https://news.google.com/covid19/map?hl=en-US&mid=%2Fm%2F0npz6&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen

 

58 confirmed cases in Douglas County, Kansas.

You can probably behave a little differently in that situation and still be relatively safe, at least compared to somewhere like Cook Co., IL.

 

Edited by turnin' two

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3 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

As long as nobody that gets sick blames their governor for opening up too quickly and providing them a false sense of security...as long as nobody who goes outside without a mask expects to get priority treatment in a hospital or have their medical expenses reimbursed when they are on a ventilator or have a lifelong debilitating lung condition as a result.

It has been pointed out hundreds of times in this thread already...but why do we even need a president if he’s deferring to state governors on every single decision?   Whatever accidentally goes well, he will attempt to take credit for (since he’s just going on gut instinct and the fact an uncle went to MIT) and whatever goes wrong, it gets blamed on the governors, right?

If Trump didn’t care more about reelection (the definition of power hungry), he would have simply declared in February or March that the health of the American people will always be my priority, first and foremost.  That this crisis is a health care crisis, and that only by addressing that first will the economy start to rebound for all Americans.   We all know the answer.

Regardless of the individual actions of politicians, you can’t force now people to spend when every bone in their body says they should save or conserve resources.  It won’t make the majority of people feel safe to return to church, to sports events, to concerts, to fly, to stay in hotels, to malls, to go to a movie...to even go out to eat. As we have now learned, businesses run on just 15-25% margins.  Many will not survive, no matter how many want to go out and enjoy the summer.  You just can’t wish or hope or con or brand your way through a pandemic.   Other than food prices, there’s a tremendous amount of deflationary pressure in the economy.   Yet our president wants negative interest rates for the first time in American history.  He’s just used to borrowing money and not paying it back.  But Americans over 60 still value their lives, they care about the future cost of living, their drugs...and especially the world being left behind for their grandchildren.   

As it turns out, intentionally dividing the country has now made it virtually impossible to get everyone back on the same page...and that is ultimately a failure in leadership.   It’s one thing to win an election, it’s quite another to successfully govern it.

Nice post, Caulfield. You da man. I read it all and liked it. I also dislike Trump for reasons I've written before (I know you read me so you know my stance). However (oops, this is where I get lumped in with Trump lovers and FOX viewers) I wish you'd "consider" blaming some of these governors as well.

I dare folks to read this and comment and at least consider this guy's concerns. How bout the governors who gladly accept churches raising money for starving people and donating food, but won't work with them on opening for church services. Oh, it's fine they go deliver stuff and break social distancing rules, but work with them on re-opening? Nah.   I respect u Caulfield. Hope u stay comfortable as can be over in China, sir. https://www.peterhaas.org/is-the-cure-killing-us-how-history-can-help-us-rethink-our-covid-response/?fbclid=IwAR0LOIjqwzH5pFdlfMWChr5TodJZerNcBGiBni0damrZY6GP2-zvbcMx04o

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