southsider2k5 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 16, 2014 -> 03:27 PM) Not for Self IMO. For others, definitely. He would have landed the same blue chippers he gets now in Champaign. Champaign is nothing special, but have you ever been to Lawrence, KS? So when did Self ever land the top recruiting class in the country at Ill? When did he ever land the consensus #1 pick and HS player in the country at Ill? It isn't about Lawrence or Champaign, it is the name on the front of the jersey. If it were about the where, Chicago would have at least one good college basketballt eam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 16, 2014 -> 03:25 PM) No such thing as players only go to coaches? You won't have 1 person agree with you. Recruiting is a huge part of a coaches job. The reason some of the same schools are always good is because they always have good recruiters. Illinois' recruiting dropped off. Is that because of the coach or the school? I showed you Self did better in his 3 years at Illinois than his first 3 in Kansas. Wrong. If you think recruiting is recruits picking ONLY based on coaches, you're 100% wrong. Not saying coaching isn't a huge influence on recruiting, if not the biggest in many cases. But if you think that's the only reason, LOL. Why does Oregon do what they do with football facilities, for example? Uniforms? Recruiting. Top recruits have Kansas, Duke, UNC etc. on their mind before they've even met one of the coaches. There's your starting point. QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 16, 2014 -> 03:27 PM) Not for Self IMO. For others, definitely. He would have landed the same blue chippers he gets now in Champaign. Champaign is nothing special, but have you ever been to Lawrence, KS? Self would have done a great job at Illinois. Not arguing that. But the point isn't "what's in Lawrence, KS." Or comparing it to Champaign. The point is the history of that program, who's there playing right now, Allen fieldhouse, on and on and on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clyons Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Jan 16, 2014 -> 03:46 PM) The point is the history of that program, who's there playing right now, Allen fieldhouse, on and on and on. I don't know about this. I think Notre Dame consistently pulls in stellar football recruits because of the paradise that is South Bend, Indiana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jan 16, 2014 -> 03:38 PM) Yeah I think Kansas would fall on very hard times with one bad hire. I kind of agree with Dick Allen. Nothing to do with Illinois but Lawrence and the state of Kansas seen miserable. The last coach at Kansas to have a winning percentage of less than 65% was the guy who invented the game of basketball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 16, 2014 -> 09:50 PM) The last coach at Kansas to have a winning percentage of less than 65% was the guy who invented the game of basketball. True but they've made some great hires there too. I think it's somewhat like Nebraska football. You have to recruit out of state. You cant even recruit the surrounding states much. So don't hire the wrong guy because the program will struggle to sell itself. luckily for them they haven't done that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogua Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jan 16, 2014 -> 03:44 PM) Since you brought up SMU they are landing plenty of kids they otherwise wouldn't because of the coach. Kids commit to coaches all the time I'd say Larry brown is kind of different from 2004 bill self. SMU is also a bit different from Loyola. Edited January 16, 2014 by Boogua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jan 16, 2014 -> 04:59 PM) True but they've made some great hires there too. I think it's somewhat like Nebraska football. You have to recruit out of state. You cant even recruit the surrounding states much. So don't hire the wrong guy because the program will struggle to sell itself. luckily for them they haven't done that. They've had good coaches and have been consistently dirty in recruiting. Good combination for maintaining a winning program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jan 16, 2014 -> 03:59 PM) True but they've made some great hires there too. I think it's somewhat like Nebraska football. You have to recruit out of state. You cant even recruit the surrounding states much. So don't hire the wrong guy because the program will struggle to sell itself. luckily for them they haven't done that. When you look at the history of Kansas basketball, it is more than just "good hires". If it were that simple Bill Self would have been just as good, or better, than what he was at Ill. The history and the name of the school sell themselves which is a large reason why people go there. It is why kids to Kentucky and North Carolina. It is why everyone wants to be a Yankee or Cowboy or Celtic or Canadian. It is one of THE franchises in sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 16, 2014 -> 05:55 PM) When you look at the history of Kansas basketball, it is more than just "good hires". If it were that simple Bill Self would have been just as good, or better, than what he was at Ill. The history and the name of the school sell themselves which is a large reason why people go there. It is why kids to Kentucky and North Carolina. It is why everyone wants to be a Yankee or Cowboy or Celtic or Canadian. It is one of THE franchises in sports. Explain UCLA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 16, 2014 -> 05:59 PM) Explain UCLA. You mean UCLA that manages to pull top recruiting class annually even when it sucks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 16, 2014 -> 06:00 PM) You mean UCLA that manages to pull top recruiting class annually even when it sucks? And have had underwhelming coaching staffs. Shaka Smart is one of the best coaches in the game, why wasn't Vcu listed as favorites for Alexander, Parker, etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 16, 2014 -> 11:55 PM) When you look at the history of Kansas basketball, it is more than just "ghost of hires". If it were that simple Bill Self would have been just as good, or better, than what he was at Ill. The history and the name of the school sell themselves which is a large reason why people go there. It is why kids to Kentucky and North Carolina. It is why everyone wants to be a Yankee or Cowboy or Celtic or Canadian. It is one of THE franchises in sports. The coach definitely adds to it yeah. But no I don't think Kansas in flyover country with no real natural recruiting grounds is going to sell itself without the right coach. Most of the other blue bloods can be backed up by being close to some major city and or having a terrific recruiting ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jan 16, 2014 -> 07:07 PM) The coach definitely adds to it yeah. But no I don't think Kansas in flyover country with no real natural recruiting grounds is going to sell itself without the right coach. Most of the other blue bloods can be backed up by being close to some major city and or having a terrific recruiting ground. Which is why what Kansas does it all of the more impressive. You go to Kansas. You don't go to play for Bill Self. The name on the front sells the institution no matter who is sitting on the bench. If it were just the coach, then Bill Self would have pull the same sorts of recruiting classes at UofI. He didn't, not even close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I certainly don't think Kansas names sells itself more than Kentucky, UNC, Duke, UCLA, etc. But they can make that up with the right coach and Bill Self is tgat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jan 16, 2014 -> 07:15 PM) I certainly don't think Kansas names sells itself more than Kentucky, UNC, Duke, UCLA, etc. But they can make that up with the right coach and Bill Self is tgat. Again, if Self was the difference, why didn't get the same classes at UofI he is getting at Kansas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 How do people watch Big Ten basketball all year? As far as Self goes, as a Big 12 guy, I think he's the best coach in that conference by a mile. I think Hoiberg is near the top, and I think most would say Scott Drew is at the bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Also, Iowa State had a really fun day today, with a guy that gained reinstatement to the team through the courts. What a f***ing mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 Nice shooting, Buckeyes. Got dominated down low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 17, 2014 -> 01:24 AM) Again, if Self was the difference, why didn't get the same classes at UofI he is getting at Kansas? I never said he was the difference? You keep putting that in my mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 When will the cold streak end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 17, 2014 -> 05:11 AM) When will the cold streak end? Three straight B1G losses. OSU must be terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 K fire frank haith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jan 16, 2014 -> 10:16 PM) Three straight B1G losses. OSU must be terrible. Ready for the recruits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I'm having a really hard time thinking if there has ever been a more overrated college basketball player than Aaron Craft. I realize that isn't his fault but I always just laugh when he is listed as a top 10 player in the country or when Dakich says he would take Craft over every other player in the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Jan 16, 2014 -> 11:21 PM) I'm having a really hard time thinking if there has ever been a more overrated college basketball player than Aaron Craft. I realize that isn't his fault but I always just laugh when he is listed as a top 10 player in the country or when Dakich says he would take Craft over every other player in the country. His value is in something you don't really measure and has been one of if not the best defensive player in the country his entire career. That's the sum of his value. Great complimentary piece. With a team that can't score his value is quickly diminished since offensively he is below average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.