Mark Buehrle to retire?

[flavum]

Royals are up 5-0, so as far as homefield advantage, this probably won't matter anyway.

Edited October 4, 2015 by flavum

[Jose Abreu]

His number has to be retired at some point, right?

 

He's one of the best pitchers to ever put a Sox uniform on.

I disagree... but I do think they'll sign him to one of those ceremonial one day contracts.

[Quin]

I disagree... but I do think they'll sign him to one of those ceremonial one day contracts.

 

He definitely is. Sabermetrics agree, his longevity and his production.

[Jose Abreu]

He definitely is. Sabermetrics agree, his longevity and his production.

Ed Walsh

Chris Sale

Wilbur Wood

Eddie Cicotte

Billy Pierce

Red Faber

Ted Lyons

 

And then there are the pitchers who "put on a Sox uniform" but didn't spend their prime pitching seasons here.

 

Don't get me wrong, Buehrle was a great pitcher for us, but let's not overrate him. His numbers aren't nearly as good as the posters here make them sound.

[flavum]

Buehrle is the Jack Morris of this era. Too much negative talk instead of appreciating what he was--reliable, valuable to a staff, and at times very, very good.

[Jose Abreu]

Anyway, 0.2 innings pitched due to bad defense? Yikes. Does he really want to leave baseball on that note?

Edited October 4, 2015 by Jose Abreu

[LDF]

Ed Walsh

Chris Sale

Wilbur Wood

Eddie Cicotte

Billy Pierce

Red Faber

Ted Lyons

 

And then there are the pitchers who "put on a Sox uniform" but didn't spend their prime pitching seasons here.

 

Don't get me wrong, Buehrle was a great pitcher for us, but let's not overrate him. His numbers aren't nearly as good as the posters here make them sound.

 

i am speaking for me, i didn't overrate him. i just love his bull dog mentality in coming after the hitters. its like i will throw you my best, beat me if you can hit it.

 

that is what everyone remembers.

 

i think.

[3GamesToLove]

Ed Walsh

Chris Sale

Wilbur Wood

Eddie Cicotte

Billy Pierce

Red Faber

Ted Lyons

 

And then there are the pitchers who "put on a Sox uniform" but didn't spend their prime pitching seasons here.

 

Don't get me wrong, Buehrle was a great pitcher for us, but let's not overrate him. His numbers aren't nearly as good as the posters here make them sound.

 

Those guys are all better, obviously, but I think if you're top ten in a franchise this old, you definitely count as "one of the best." He's 7th on the list of bWAR for the Sox is within 3 wins of #4. If you want fWAR, then he's #5.

 

Also, not to sound like one of those "did you see him play!?" guys, but you were six years old in '05 so I'm not sure you have the right perspective on Buehrle.

Edited October 4, 2015 by 3GamesToLove

[Jose Abreu]

Those guys are all better, obviously, but I think if you're top ten in a franchise this old, you definitely count as "one of the best." He's 7th on the list of bWAR for the Sox is within 3 wins of #4. If you want fWAR, then he's #5.

 

Also, not to sound like one of those "did you see him play!?" guys, but you were six years old in '05 so I'm not sure you have the right perspective on Buehrle.

I'm surprised that his fWAR is as high as it is among Sox pitchers. And yes, I only watched him from 06-now, but I know exactly how important he was to the 05 team. Pre-05, his numbers don't look like a #1 pitcher. Even with his 3.29 ERA in 2001, his FIP was 4.10.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Jose Abreu

[3GamesToLove]

I'm surprised that his fWAR is as high as it is among Sox pitchers. And yes, I only watched him from 06-now, but I know exactly how important he was to the 05 team. Pre-05, his numbers don't look like a #1 pitcher. Even with his 3.29 ERA in 2001, his FIP was 4.10.

 

A ton of innings with a 120 ERA+ will take you places. You forget the offensive era.

[OmarComing25]

I'm surprised that his fWAR is as high as it is among Sox pitchers. And yes, I only watched him from 06-now, but I know exactly how important he was to the 05 team. Pre-05, his numbers don't look like a #1 pitcher. Even with his 3.29 ERA in 2001, his FIP was 4.10.

Buehrle is well known as a guy who breaks FIP, he was able to consistently outpitch his peripherals due to his fielding and elite ability to hold runners on base. There was an article on Grantland about it last year. Even if you don't take that into account, he's still one of the best pitchers the White Sox have ever had.

 

http://grantland.com/features/mark-buehrle...rising-success/

[Quin]

Buehrle pretty much breaks traditional stats with his defense, speed and ability to control the running game.

 

Sale's ERA this year didn't match his value - it's the same with Mark.

[greg775]

Ed Walsh

Chris Sale

Wilbur Wood

Eddie Cicotte

Billy Pierce

Red Faber

Ted Lyons

 

And then there are the pitchers who "put on a Sox uniform" but didn't spend their prime pitching seasons here.

 

Don't get me wrong, Buehrle was a great pitcher for us, but let's not overrate him. His numbers aren't nearly as good as the posters here make them sound.

 

I'll say this about Sox fans. They never forget those old-time pitchers. Those old time pitchers always are thought of better than guys like Buehrle, etc. Wilbur Wood was not better than Buehrle, BTW. Of course Sale has better stuff. Let's see if he has longevity.

As far as Walsh, cicotte, Pierce, Faber, Lyons ... who gives a f***? Those guys are ancient! Let's talk about modern history. Buehrle was GREAT in the modern era.

 

p.s. If that was Buehrle's last time on the mound, how ugly. All the runs were unearned but that grand slam was tattooed and so were some hard hit singles and doubles. I don't know why he wants to quit at 36 unless it's totally health related. If his arm is killing him I guess I can't blame him. Otherwise, we could trade Q for a ton of hitting talent and bring in Mark for 4-6 million one year deal with an option. s***, even if Buehrle's arm is falling off, he'd be better than Zach Duke for gosh sakes.

Edited October 5, 2015 by greg775

[Quin]

I'll say this about Sox fans. They never forget those old-time pitchers. Those old time pitchers always are thought of better than guys like Buehrle, etc. Wilbur Wood was not better than Buehrle, BTW. Of course Sale has better stuff. Let's see if he has longevity.

As far as Walsh, cicotte, Pierce, Faber, Lyons ... who gives a f***? Those guys are ancient! Let's talk about modern history. Buehrle was GREAT in the modern era.

 

p.s. If that was Buehrle's last time on the mound, how ugly. All the runs were unearned but that grand slam was tattooed and so were some hard hit singles and doubles. I don't know why he wants to quit at 36 unless it's totally health related. If his arm is killing him I guess I can't blame him. Otherwise, we could trade Q for a ton of hitting talent and bring in Mark for 4-6 million one year deal with an option. s***, even if Buehrle's arm is falling off, he'd be better than Zach Duke for gosh sakes.

 

Those guys gave a lot to the organization, that's why people give a f***.

 

In 20 years do you want people asking who gives a s*** about Buehrle?

 

Pierce and Wood were in the modern era. JFC.

 

Greg, if you had your way we wouldn't retire Mark's number because WHO GIVES A f*** IN A FEW YEARS? AMIRITE?

[greg775]

Those guys gave a lot to the organization, that's why people give a f***.

 

In 20 years do you want people asking who gives a s*** about Buehrle?

 

Pierce and Wood were in the modern era. JFC.

 

Greg, if you had your way we wouldn't retire Mark's number because WHO GIVES A f*** IN A FEW YEARS? AMIRITE?

 

I just get sick of any lists of all time Sox greats and having the list ALWAYS permeated by the old, old timers. I know Wilbur Wood is modern but he is no Mark Buehrle. Cmon. Wilbur Wood isn't in the discussion.

 

I mean if we make a list of all time sox greats, almost all of them will be from the Joe Jackson era or up til 1960. It's not like we have the history of the Yankees. There's room to praise heavily the Buehrles, Baineses, Fisks, Venturas, McDowells, etc.

Edited October 5, 2015 by greg775

[3GamesToLove]

I just get sick of any lists of all time Sox greats and having the list ALWAYS permeated by the old, old timers. I know Wilbur Wood is modern but he is no Mark Buehrle. Cmon. Wilbur Wood isn't in the discussion.

 

I mean if we make a list of all time sox greats, almost all of them will be from the Joe Jackson era or up til 1960. It's not like we have the history of the Yankees. There's room to praise heavily the Buehrles, Baineses, Fisks, Venturas, McDowells, etc.

 

Ventura and Fisk are probably starters on the all-time team, so...

 

Also, you really don't think Wood deserves to be in the same conversation as Buehrle? I'd love to read your analysis.

[Quin]

Ventura and Fisk are probably starters on the all-time team, so...

 

Also, you really don't think Wood deserves to be in the same conversation as Buehrle? I'd love to read your analysis.

 

So is Baines. And Frank and Paulie.

 

It just so happens they had great pitchers throughout team history

 

[greg775]

Ventura and Fisk are probably starters on the all-time team, so...

 

Also, you really don't think Wood deserves to be in the same conversation as Buehrle? I'd love to read your analysis.

 

Just won/lost records Wood was 164-156; mark is 214-159 to begin with.

[greg775]

200 innings 14 years in a row for Mark; Wilbur five years total of 200 innings. Albeit he threw 300 innings four years in a row. Why is Wibur getting so much love. I like him but ?

Edited October 5, 2015 by greg775

[3GamesToLove]

So is Baines. And Frank and Paulie.

 

It just so happens they had great pitchers throughout team history

 

That's true. Probably an outfield of Minoso, Shoeless Joe, Baines.

 

So, five of the nine players (including a DH) in the all-time lineup are post-1980. Relax, greg.

Edited October 5, 2015 by 3GamesToLove

[Jose Abreu]

Just won/lost records Wood was 164-156; mark is 214-159 to begin with.

C'mon Greg, you should know better than this. W/L record means nothing. Chris Sale was 11-14 in 2013.

[flavum]

Buehrle's comments after the game made it sound like it's up in the air whether he'll retire. Joked maybe he'll try to start a new 200+ inning streak next year.

 

We'll see. Until he says it in the offseason, you never know. Hell, the Jays may still need him.

[greg775]

Buehrle's comments after the game made it sound like it's up in the air whether he'll retire. Joked maybe he'll try to start a new 200+ inning streak next year.

 

We'll see. Until he says it in the offseason, you never know. Hell, the Jays may still need him.

This is where I hate twitter, etc. It was reported the night before the game he was gonna retire. What a joke. Those sites that lied need to retract. They had NO sources on this as it turned out. Now the Sox CAN sign him!! Trade one of our lefty starters and sign Mark on the cheap for 1-2 years!

Edited October 5, 2015 by greg775

[3GamesToLove]

Now the Sox CAN sign him!! Trade one of our lefty starters and sign Mark on the cheap for 1-2 years!

 

This is a bad idea.

[southsider2k5]

I'll say this about Sox fans. They never forget those old-time pitchers. Those old time pitchers always are thought of better than guys like Buehrle, etc. Wilbur Wood was not better than Buehrle, BTW. Of course Sale has better stuff. Let's see if he has longevity.

As far as Walsh, cicotte, Pierce, Faber, Lyons ... who gives a f***? Those guys are ancient! Let's talk about modern history. Buehrle was GREAT in the modern era.

 

p.s. If that was Buehrle's last time on the mound, how ugly. All the runs were unearned but that grand slam was tattooed and so were some hard hit singles and doubles. I don't know why he wants to quit at 36 unless it's totally health related. If his arm is killing him I guess I can't blame him. Otherwise, we could trade Q for a ton of hitting talent and bring in Mark for 4-6 million one year deal with an option. s***, even if Buehrle's arm is falling off, he'd be better than Zach Duke for gosh sakes.

 

They never forget old mangers either.