WestEddy

Do you not see a difference between playing in a Stanley Cup game, and a meaningless baseball game in June for a team 40 games under .500?

Tim Dierkes has a mailbag feature for subscribers of MLBTR. Somebody asked about the Bowden trade proposal of Crochet, Kopech and DeJong to the Dodgers. Lengthy answer - says that any starter is an injury threat, and they'd get more splitting Kopech and Crochet. https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/06/tim-dierkes-mlb-mailbag-francisco-alvarez-hoerner-crochet-and-more.html Looks like Dodgers and White Sox match up well for a deadline trade. Do you think LA has prospect capital and the need to receive Crochet, Kopech, and DeJong from Chicago? Not sure I would want to pay the price for Robert. Steve Adams got into the feasibility of a popular Jim Bowden trade proposal last week that included Robert. If you take Robert out, the plausibility goes way up, because I agree with Steve and putting Robert and Crochet into the same deal seems highly unlikely. I see DeJong as a minor piece of this deal. I was initially dismissive of Kopech as well, but he’s under team control for 2025, throws 99, and has punched out 32.2% of batters faced this year. The Dodgers and other intelligent teams can quite possibly turn him into a very effective reliever. Entering this season, Crochet’s professional career high in innings was 65 in his second year at Tennessee. He’d never started more than six games. At the time of this writing, he’s made 17 starts and pitched 94 1/3 innings. Aside from his Opening Day start, he’s split his outings evenly between having four and five days of rest. Crochet is under team control through 2026. Crochet as a trade candidate is fascinating. At his current pace, he’s in the AL Cy Young mix, which no one saw coming. Given that he’s 29 1/3 innings past his career high halfway through the season, naturally you’d expect his team to use caution. That’s especially true if it remains the White Sox, since they’d either be trying to lock him up or trade him for a king’s ransom. White Sox manager Pedro Grifol put it this way: “We’re going to start dwindling his workload down a little bit, and we’ll manage that correctly. But it’s not something we’re going to put out and say, ‘Here’s what we’re doing,’ because nothing in this game is black and white. He might have five innings where he goes 12 pitches or less and we might let him go six or seven innings, even when we’re trying to minimize his workload. It all depends on what he does.” The Dodgers still have a consensus top ten farm system, and yes, I do think if they put enough 50 or 55 grade prospects or young players into a package they could get Crochet, Kopech, and DeJong from the White Sox. I also think that A) uncoupling Crochet and Kopech probably nets the White Sox a better return and B) competition would be fierce for Crochet even if it’s unclear how much he can give you in the second half. As an aside, there’s not an arm in the Majors for whom I have full confidence of 15 second half starts. So while letting Crochet reach 30 starts and then possibly leaning on him as a #2 playoff starter would seem to carry increased injury risk, I don’t think MLB teams have really cracked this nut. If Crochet were to be limited to 75 pitches per start instead of the 89 he’s averaged this year, is there actual evidence that would benefit him? He’s more likely to get a benefit from pitching on five days rest more often, but again, this is lacking in hard evidence. There’s also the idea, which I put forth when everyone was dogging Tyler Glasnow for his injury history before the season, that Crochet mostly had one major injury, and maybe needed extra time to fully recover from it. And a pandemic and lockout didn’t help pitchers in general. In other words, a pitcher can need Tommy John surgery but not immediately get it, and also not recover in a straight line 18-month period. Such a player might get a reputation for being more injury-prone than he really is once this major surgery is truly behind him. I’m skeptical the White Sox will be good within Crochet’s control window, and if nothing else he seems to carry more injury risk than most. So I still support trading him, though if the offers aren’t reflective of a top of the rotation starter, they shouldn’t make a deal. Similarly, if an extension can be reached that prices in Crochet’s injury risk, that’s worth considering.

happy birthday.

They were certainly lock down today. I would have been glad for them to get their first victory 2 games into the 1st half.

I'll get to that one after you hunt down where P4P read that a 120+ season was planned.

Yes, I said that. Weird how nobody makes fun of the guys who called Fedde garbage, and demanded he be cut in spring training.

There we go. Thank you for not wasting any more of our time. Scouting Lee and Fedde isn't something lucky that dropped out of the sky. Crochet finally being fully healthy isn't magical.

Just like I thought. You are afraid to answer that question. You and SS play argument games about who said what, and "oh that excuse". We've already established that saying "everybody knew" doesn't magically put all three back on the field. It's an argumentative technique to take that reason off the table. We banked on injury prone and mediocre players because.... wait for it... they're under contract. Crazy, huh? I know, in WS2023 fantasyland, you just cut everybody, eat millions upon millions in payroll, and go "get" all the best players and we all live happily ever after. That's a great plan. I'll just keep asking this, and you'll just keep running scared:

They sure screw up those draft picks, didn't they? The only meme-level screw-up I remember was Beckham tackling Gillaspie during a pop-up to the mound. The Astros had dozens of those moments during their 3-year long 110+ loss streak. Guys running into each other during routine groundballs...

The Chicago White Sox don't "work" for me. They are an entertainment option. I am as frustrated with the losing as anybody else, here. I'm actually a pretty cool boss. I worked with my employees to get good results. I didn't make up things to whine all day every day about.

Here's the question you and Southsider won't answer: Are you actually saying that if Yoan, Eloy and Robert stayed healthy and played all the games, and if Benintendi and Vaughn had rebound years and OPSed a passable .700-.750, they'd still be 21-81? I'll leave this here. I'm tired of playing your argument games.

Nope. Try again.

This is the quote I'm responding to from the hysterical one: I'm not reliving yesterday's argument. P4P is making s%*# up to argue against. I believe that's called a strawman.

Hysterical again. LOL. You certainly don't give a flying f*** about facts, or about what people actually think. Run along and keep making up things to be angry and hysterical about. Hysterical P4P is pretty spot on, actually. Have fun with your little game.

See? At this point, you're arguing just to argue. Fletcher wasn't ready, and the Pillar DFA was unfortunate. You don't even really have a point.

Continue to be wrong. It's actually funny.

You get a response to this every time you ask it, then you pretend you didn't and continue to say made up things.

Can you cite one person who has ever said that? You can't. Tell me, can you ride on flying unicorns in this fantasyland of yours?

DeJong is an obvious upgrade from Anderson. Victory. Lopez is about as good as what was at 2B last year. Defense is better. Draw. Fletcher/Pillar crumbled when they moved to CF. Failure. Maldonado/Stassi never materialized. Lee is probably better than Zavala/Grandal. Unintended victory. Otherwise, Benny, Robert, Yoan, Vaughn and Eloy were already here. They all just did worse. We've already discussed what I thought Getz was doing with pitching. I'm sure he didn't think he was getting better by bringing in Soroka and not pursuing Giolito.

Terrify? I believe you're becoming hysterical.

You can stop taking wild guesses at what I think anytime you're ready. You complain about my posting, I'm guessing because you read it, yet it still hasn't sunk in, yet, that I don't think Getz planned on a 120+ loss season. This entire discussion erupts once a week in one string, or another. Yet, there's always the guy who is flabbergasted that "I think Getz was planning a World Series parade" by signing Maldonado, DeJong, Flexen, and trading for Soroka and Lopez. You seem angry. Perhaps you should deal with your anger issues separate from your problem with projection. Here's what I actually think: 1) Getz thought this team would be merely bad. 2) 3 injuries and multiple key slumps shot this team through the floor. 3) The rotation and bullpen were thrown together to find players to flip, with effectiveness a secondary concern. 4) It's foolish to think that ~$12m spent on Fedde, Flexen and Soroka is wasted money. It was throwing multiple arms at the wall to see if one popped, then trade him. It worked. $12m for about 4WAR at mid-point is an incredible deal. 5) win-loss record no longer matters at this point. Nobody actively frets about the 2003 Tigers, or the rebuilding Astros who lost over 110 3 years in a row. The Astros were even an internet meme, with how bad they were. I don't see videos of White Sox players stumbling over each other all over Twitter. So respond or not, it doesn't matter. You're not having an argument with me. You seem to be screaming at made up people who are saying things you made up. Have fun with that.

I'll just keep copying and posting this until it sinks in for you: Getz did acquire Lopez and he did sign Maldonado, so I'm not sure why I need to "blame" him. I didn't like the Maldy signing; I still don't. I can 'not like' it and understand why he did it - at the same time. What I don't understand is why you try to make people on this site repeat the same things over and over and over. We all surmise that Reinsdorf wouldn't let Getz fire Grifol, just yet. Grifol is a weak manager, and wanted a clubhouse presence to help him keep the team under control. It's dumb, but there's an easily acceptable reason. I'm pretty sure a lifetime baseball guy isn't looking at Maldy's .080 BA, and thinking that's productive. I would also be sure that Getz sees Maldy laboring to be bad behind the plate, and knows he's done. I can make up reasons why he doesn't cut Maldonado this instant. Professional courtesy? Don't damage an already bad reputation among free agents that the handling of Pillar didn't help? He's Grifol's little buddy, and helps him not lose the clubhouse? He is mentoring Lee and bringing him along? All of the above? 2B - In a rebuild year, I don't think I saw any compelling, cheap options on the market. Getz seemed resolute to cover defense and not worry about offense. I think Remillard would have been slightly better, in that he has a little pop. However, Remy was exposed like any utility infielder would be getting starters innings. I also think the brass recognizes Lopez' shortcomings, and he's pretty much in a straight platoon with Mendick. I don't think the Lopez move was "bad". He was basically for free in trade, and his salary is negligible for being, perhaps, our strongest defensive infielder.

I honestly thought Shuster would be one of the DFAs in the few flurries of moves then. He was horrible starting at AAA.

I'm always amazed by the people who laughed at this team in the off-season, and proclaimed that there was no way, no collection of trades and signings that would make this team competitive this year, and now act surprised at every single loss. I think trading your best pitcher in Spring training indicates something akin to tanking. It's silly to pretend that slotting a utility infielder in at 2B, trading off your best pitcher and dropping Maldonado at C was a major push at "competing". But hey! I'm performing mental gymnastics. LOL.