WestEddy

A little more background on the Johnson hire: Orioles coach Sherman Johnson joining the White Sox as a minor league hitting coordinator | Sox On 35th

I read it as, "The White Sox where horribly run in the early 60's and wouldn't get better until Bill Veeck sold the team to a rich owner."

But do they do that? I think the most craven reason I've heard was the Sox used to not use the DL to keep their league numbers better. They'll keep a guy on the bench for a couple of days in the hope that he heals up, and the starter is worth more for 10 days than a replacement player is for 15. This year, they've even called a guy up for a single game, then demoted him just to have that 26th guy the one game before Robert came off the IL, or something. If they've tried to save one day of league minimum salary in the past, I'm unaware.

I agree with this. And they're going to be serious in the Rule 5. They're not going to spend money. But they're not going to keep running guys out there who aren't producing. In 2024, they had no depth. Last year, they had no depth but played the waiver wire well. Next year, they'll have group of pitchers to pick from.

You're not making an argument, now. The World Series isn't even over. There's an entire off-season to play out. You're assuming they will acquire nobody, will plug in the same 5 guys who finished the season in the rotation, and not replace them if they fail. They don't need to pick two winning Powerball tickets in the Rule 5 again. I'm really not even sure what you're arguing. I think I've explained my reasoning.

Burke, Cannon and Gomez were worth half a win between the three of them. I guess it's fun to pretend there is no way for a team to do better than that, they'll plug in 3 ineffective starting pitchers, and nobody will step up and outperform them. That's essentially the logic you're using.

Sure, that's all within the realm of possibilities.

They played .430 ball after the ASB. That rounds up to 70 wins over 162. Next season's rotation probably looks something like Shane Smith, Davis Martin, Gomez, Grant Taylor and a wily, cheap veteran. Burke probably competes for a spot, too. I contend that the same team develops further and adds 5+ wins to their 2nd half performance level. You seem to be implying that they won't be able to run a pitcher out there who can do better than Jon Cannon's -0.5 bWAR. That was a weird rule change where MLB stopped letting baseball teams add players in the off-season.

Antonacci, B. Monty, Schultz, McDougal, and they get Thorpe and Adams back.

That's exactly what I was going to say. My own thought is they'll win in the mid-to-upper 70s next season and competing for the division in 2027. They might be "really good" in 2028. He has them two whole years behind that.

I think it's been strongly hinted at that if they keep Robert, Getz has about another $10M to spend.

I don't follow the Padres all that closely to know whether the fanbase is still in love with the surviving brothers. I'm sure another Dodger World Series victory will only make the base love them more. Reinsdorf sucks as an owner. His weird, adversarial attitude makes it all personal. I find myself flabbergasted by the concept of a billionaire dealing with 29 other billionaires and corporations - let himself get played by a faction of them, becoming the face of an unpopular move to establish a salary cap and wiping out a season in the process, then while standing there with a big protest sign saying "Screw the players", turned around and saw he was alone, and everybody stabbed him in the back. We give rich people the benefit of the doubt on intelligence because they found a wrinkle in the financial system to exploit. I guess his answer as to why he keeps shooting himself in the foot is because it's going to feel so good when the gun's finally empty.

Okay, you got me. I was wrong when I was so specific in saying that all teams' fan bases except the championship winner hate their owners. You seem to agree with pretty much the rest of what I responded to you and WS23. I'm really not sure what I'm full of s%*# about, unless that's your own clever way of telling me that I've nailed it again. Your first point, I sure hope you find the guy who said that and give him whatfor. You agree with me that the White Sox went to the playoffs in 2020 and 2021. Liptak said he'd be happy with 5 appearances in 10 years, and I told him he wouldn't. I didn't say he should be grateful for 2 appearances in, what, 20 years? I said they get glossed over, therefore, the people who have been vociferous in their hatred of Reinsdorf for coming on 30+ years would not accept 5 playoff appearances in 10 years. And Lip's comment was in being argumentative over me stating that Cub fans aren't happy with Ricketts. Tony, I fully encourage you to not accept things you don't like. My argument in this thread is that billionaires and corporations buy baseball teams, now, to max out free money from the government under threat of losing a baseball team. The goal of their ownership is usually a new stadium in a stadium village where they get billions of dollars pouring down upon them. They will set up this cash flow, then sell the team for 20 times what they paid. Now, I realize I'm being too specific, and somebody will pop in and point out that one or a couple owners didn't do that, or a few teams are way profitable and try to win regularly without tapping into that money stream. That's great. There are also financially conservative dudes who would argue that the government should be putting money into owners' pockets. Good for them, too. Reinsdorf sucks as an owner. But he sucks as an owner for the actual reasons he sucks, many of which we agree on.

I'm not embarrassed. Reinsdorf is not a good baseball team owner. There are worse owners in baseball. His situation is unique, in that he's burned bridges with his attitude, and has made some bad business decisions that have run out the clock on his ownership. He's also made bad baseball decisions which are too numerous to list out. A new owner will run the business differently. It would not surprise me for Ishbia to take over, do some fan-friendly stuff, pour money into player payroll, win, then suddenly realize he needs to tighten the belt on player salaries. And either Ishbia or Reinsdorf, I'm going to guess the White Sox will suddenly be in a stadium crisis where the city and state need to stuff his pockets with free money, land, infrastructure, zoning changes, and labor law waivers.

And you're using recency bias during the worst years of a rebuild to make your own arguments. My argument is that your own misery isn't unique. All owners hold their cities hostage for free land, tax breaks and legislative preference. Sure, some owners aren't individually psychotic to the point of dropping a player a day early so they don't have to pay a $50k kicker, or so negligent they look the other way while members of the front office supply drugs to their players that kill them. The White Sox will post a winning record this coming season, or the next, and the goalposts will magically move, and everybody else will be settling for mediocrity by being happy about a playoff berth or a single championship, or whatnot.

I thought hypotheticals were for losers looking to validate their wrong arguments. A season was played, and they made the playoffs under the rules for that season. But hey, let's pretend something different so you could argue they didn't really make those playoffs.

View them however you want to. The argument you're picking a single sentence out of is that the guy who complains long and loud about every player acquisition says he would be happy with another team's situation, and I say he wouldn't. He would conduct himself the same way as he does now. All fan bases except the championship winner hate their teams' owners.

The Sox made the playoffs in 2020 and 2021, you all y'all try to ignore one of them, then whine about the outcomes assures me that y'all would b**** about anything. Just stop.

Counterpoint: No you wouldn't. You'd b**** as loudly as you did for the last 30 years.

His numbers struck me as a more consistent Michael A. Taylor.

Until it doesn't. Cub fans seem pretty unhappy with Rickets.

And I'll add to that - Reinsdorf has become the person he loathed - Bill Veeck. No, he'll never be anywhere near as beloved. But now JR's the guy who made a string of bad/weak decisions, the game has moved to a place where he can't get to in his short time left on Earth, and some other big daddy billionaire has to swoop in and save the franchise from his relative poverty. I just wonder how, in today's climate, Bill Veeck would be perceived if his answer to a decade of losing was letting a clown hand out balloons in the stands and signing a bunch of retreads who might or might not put together a "magical season" and finish in third place. Maybe he'd even introduce a new milkshake and have a bunch of giveaway promotions. The beloved John Allyn Bobble-head doll.

Billionaire Daddy Syndrome. The belief that billionaires will ride in and save you. Winning is a by-product.

Road trip to see the inaugural Moose Jaw Marauders' season opener.

I stayed down the street from the Embarcadero, took the BART, and hopped off right outside of Oakland Coliseum. Easy peasy. I think the owner of the OKC Thunder did the same thing to Seattle. He's accused of moving out of spite, and he did, but I think he also wanted his free tourist village. It's important to keep saying that Ishbia isn't buying the team because he loves us, the fans, and wants us to be able to walk down the street, drunk, every November, high fiving strangers during yet another Championship celebration. He's buying it to hold Chicago hostage in his own way, cheat us out of our tax dollars, and then start his own rocket ship company to colonize Venus. There's no such thing as a "good" team owner.