SoxBlanco

He wasn’t listing teams interested in Ryu. He was listing teams that need starting pitching.

I don’t know...maybe Wood? Teheran? Bailey? We might have just not liked Miley at all. Like I’ve been saying for a couple weeks now...just wait until the offseason is over before complaining about each and every move. We could sign Keuchel and Wood still and nobody would think twice about this Miley deal.

Or they liked other fliers better that they feel they can get for the same price or cheaper.

Just offer him 5/$100M. Front load it so we’re not paying much in years four and five: 24, 24, 24, 14, 14 Do front loaded deals like that even exist? Or will he never accept that because he might as well just take a 3 year deal with the assumption that he can beat those last two years with another contract?

They thought they were overpaying!! They used the exact strategy you are describing. Do you think a negotiation is just a completely transparent process where you see all other team's bids and you know exactly the amount it would take for him to sign?

Actually, it's apparent they weren't...otherwise they would have made him an offer like 6 years for $180. They offered a huge contract and he chose a different team. Now they move on. The important thing people don't seem to grasp is that there weren't/aren't a lot of good options after Wheeler. Just like the RF options, they all have flaws. So we have to make a decision on whether we want to overpay for a flawed option, or just sign a couple 1 year guys. I would personally go hard for Ryu, but I understand not wanting to do that.

Come on. I've seen posts like this a couple times recently, and it's ridiculous. We were all thinking 5 for $110M could possibly get it done (some people were even saying anything more than $105/$110 would make it a bad deal) The Sox offered 5 for $125. It's easy to judge in hindsight, but that is a great offer. What did you want them to offer? 6 years for $180M?

I would just let Collins get as many at bats as possible this year, and then let the situation take care of itself. If Collins struggles all year, then he's not really in the plans moving forward and Vaughn comes up to pair with Abreu at the 1B/DH positions. If Collins turns into a legit bat, then perhaps somebody gets traded for pitching help next offseason (and in this scenario, Collins would be a much more valuable trade chip than he is right now). Or maybe you just let McCann walk and roll with Grandal, Collins, Abreu, and Vaughn for C, DH, and 1B in 2021.

Haha, that wasn't me. I've always thought Kopech should and will start in AAA.

It's not only about needing to build arm strength...it's more about being on an innings limit next year. If he starts the year in the rotation, then he will be shut down at some point. And if he's going to be shut down anyway, you might as well "shut him down" in the beginning of the year when he can pitch a couple innings at a time in AAA.

Thanks for clarifying. I haven't read the Fegan pieces. If that's true, they would have to be looking at a trade.

This is what Hahn said about Kopech. He obviously never directly said that he would start in AAA, but I think that's what he was getting at here...

Can you elaborate on the bolded part? What language are you referring to? Seems to me it's been very quiet on the Ryu/Keuchel front for all teams, not just the White Sox.

Does Boston need more financial help this upcoming year than it does for the following two years? Anybody coming off the books after this upcoming season? Just wondering if it would make sense to take on all $32M this year and then only like $14M each of the next two years (so essentially, Boston is chipping in $36M total).

Now that we’ve seen MadBum’s deal, what is a reasonable deal for Ryu or Keuchel? And by reasonable, I mean something that is not insane but will get them to sign right now? How about these? Ryu: 4 for $72M Keuchel: 3 for $60M

Does anybody have a list of the remaining free agent starting pitchers?

Yeah, besides Wheeler (who we offered the most money to), the next best three are still available. We all knew coming into the off-season that Cole and Strasburg were not realistic. Being upset about that is completely fair, but we all knew that a couple months ago, so I'm not sure why people are upset right now. When we didn't land Wheeler, did people all of a sudden become mad that we weren't going to target Cole or Strasburg, as if it was brand new information? Like I said, it's fine to be upset about that, but the timing of the complaining is weird to me. I completely removed Cole and Strasburg from my thinking months ago, so the way I see it is that there were four pitchers to look at coming into the off-season. We offered Wheeler the most money and he chose to sign somewhere else. Fine...it sucks, but now we move on. The other three are still available, and trades are still an option as well. I have no idea why people are so upset. If March rolls around and we are in the same position, then we should be furious.

Have you looked at your calendar?

I think if you start him in AAA for a month, you might as well keep him there until you get the year of service back. I believe that would be late May/early June.

That's a damn good lineup. I still refuse to judge the off-season or get upset until I see what we add in the pitching department.

Correct. Let’s say they decide to pick up $12M per year and we trade for him. We are then getting Price for $20M a year for three years. What/Who else would the trade need to include to make that work?

Agreed, but this should be the reaction in March...not right now. I touched on this earlier today in this thread...

Let's assume for a minute that the plan was to make a run at Castellanos or Ozuna. If that indeed was the plan, what happens if Ozuna signs somewhere else next week and Castellanos waits until February and ultimately signs somewhere else? Then you are out of luck in RF. As a backup plan, you could buy low on Mazara and use him as your everyday RF if no other acquisitions come to fruition. It sounds weird calling it a backup plan when you make the move BEFORE your attempt at another move, but you certainly wouldn't want to come away completely empty handed in RF. Guys like Mazara, Calhoun, etc. could be moved/gone already by the time Castellanos signs. It also gives you a little more leverage in negotiations with Castellanos because you are no longer desperate for a RF. I have no idea if this was their line of thinking, but the point is that we need to see how the entire off-season unfolds before jumping off a cliff.

See, I completely disagree with that. You don’t decide to go after Rendon just because you miss on Wheeler. If you want Rendon, then you go after him. He is not a backup plan and he should have nothing to do with missing out on Wheeler. A backup plan should be going after Ryu or MadBum or trading for a SP if you don’t like those two guys.

What kind of backup plan were you hoping for? Signing Rendon, Cole, or Strasburg cannot be considered a backup plan because if you were willing to go after them, you would have made plan Plan A...not a backup plan. (I’m not saying you think one of those big 3 should have been the backup plan...I’m just genuinely curious what would qualify as a good backup plan.)