SoCalChiSox

The value aspect is only relevant if the other 10m is actually gonna be spent. 10m is not enough to pay for Cruz and with the SP filled Madrigal isnt gonna be traded so La Stella isn't gonna sign here. So where is the rest of the money going? /Spoiler: JRs pocket

Don't they have to also keep Crochet down a bit for service time too?

He sure didn't look like a 60 runner or a 60 defender last year, at least from the eye test.

If they wouldn't do Q for 1/8, why do you think they'd pay 2m more? At this point just give Wainwright like 4m and use the rest on a bat.

Budget. Maybe if he accepts like 6m instead of the 8m allegedly set aside for the position, then La Stella might be more amenable to a 1 year deal if he was getting 9m instead of 7m.

The unspoken assumption is that because of Profar's contract, La Stella is no longer financially viable for us, probably due more to term rather than price, which is why trading for the LHH depth piece is now in the scenario he put out re: trading Madrigal rather than signing one. This is why it sucked losing Q at a cheap price. Just keep the prospects and Madrigal. Just forget it. Give Richards his 8m or whatever, keep the other 7m for absorbing salary at the deadline and keep the powder dry on other assets so we can see what we need at the deadline.

I think if we can get 2 good SPs out of the young group (including Kopech and Cease as well as the younger group that isn't here yet) by 2023, there will be basically no money on the books for SP in 2024 (assuming Keuchels option isn't triggered) so even if Giolito is priced out of our range we could probably afford 1 good FA SP plus one ok SP at that point. Obviously no one can really have 5 good SPs but 3 good ones and 1 OK/middling SP is still prolly good enough to keep the window going.

This is also a good reason to keep as many of Crochet/Kelley/Vera/Dahlquist/Thompson etc as possible. If Giolito will soon become essentially unsignable because the old man dragged his feet too long we need to keep those young arms so hopefully at least a few of them can turn into viable SPers in MLB as replacing Giolito (again without spending money) will be a huge priority.

Well played

Almost no one here would want to keep Madrigal if it came down to either him or Vaughn in a trade.

This is almost certainly what it is. If you remember I think Ozuna's agent used the White Sox and Hector last year in a similar way. Incidentally, if they trade for Burnes, who i assume is slated to make like 500k, instead of the roughly 8m they allegedly budgeted for SP we could use that money to sign Cruz, although it would be pretty much impossible to get Cruz and La Stella for 14.5m combined and we would still need La Stella at 2B if Madrigal is part of the trade package.

Actually Madrigal Heuer Stiever Thompson would have been better than I thought (better from our perspective) , certainly you can see RHs reluctance there to give up Kelley which is good. MIL had to know there was no way we would agree to Crochet in place of Stiever. I dunno who the OFer we were targeting was but maybe they can just drop that part if it would help sweeten the original deal for MIL given Cespedes and also Colas may be on the way soon.

Problem they already lost Q on the cheap while being strung along by MIL and now RH could get overriden again by JR and his boy, this time with truly catastrophic consequences.

Or MIL is just trying to squeeze us for more at the last second by playing divide and conquer knowing the owner and manager have hijacked control from the FO and are willing to sacrifice the long term for the short term, so they figure they might as well try to benefit from that.

Yeah I just saw the latest note from one of the foodies. From what I can tell, it seems they broke down and finally said OK to including Kelley thinking MIL would say OK but now MIL is trying to push for one of the big three as well and the FO is drawing the line there and saying no, so there's a standoff.

Vaughn plus Madrigal, Heuer, Kelley would be absolutely horrendous. Just take Richards and keep all the talent. Vaughn should be totally off limits

Yeah....Kelley hurts and so does Heuer but it seems Heuer was gone in one deal or another as they wanted to sell high. Madrigal going is certainly far more palatable than Vaughn/Kopech/Crochet and probably was a prerequisite to La Stella signing on the dotted line. Narvaez is meh....I actually would prefer giving Zack Collins a chance to back up Grandal and get 40 games in but TLR prolly wants a vet.

Agreed or just keep them for the second part of the window. Just because JR is unwilling to pay money and both he and TLR have no incentive to care about the long term doesn't mean we deserve to have our window slashed in half.

There was the suggestion (not by Jimmy but rather I think maybe Harold) that Kelley and Madrigal was not going to be enough and so there would be other headliners so I am really concerned about that. I get La Stella isn't gonna come if Madrigal is still there, but I'd say I wish they took Q at 1/8 because even Kelley is probably going to be a painful loss down the road.

Jimmy, whats the damage? Whats the compensation going to MIL? Is Vaughn/Kopech involved?

I will be royally pissed if Kopech is moved on this trade. Harold seemed to be implying he would. I sure hope not. Man Q was available for real cheap without destroying what is needed for the second part of the window. This is so dumb. Don't trade Kopech or Vaughn or Crochet

You know if they want they could squeeze both Brantley and La Stella in there if they traded for Burnes. If Brantley really ends up having to settle for 2/24. Between that and say 1/7 for La Stella, if they only have to pay Burnes like 500k....thats 19.5 added, but if ReyLo is getting moved plus Madrigal, Heuer from the roster you can shave about 3m off of it (plus ofcourse prospects but there are no monetary savings there), that's 16.5 which is pretty damn close enough.

What about 2B?

How would that benefit MIL? I'm confused.

Maybe we need to include a third team to send Madrigal too so they can send MIL something they want since they don't need 2B. I really don't want to give up Kopech or Vaughn. From C*shek's reaction something could very well be going down.