Look at Ray Ray Run

"Someone once felt highly of this guy before? Well, I cant develop him but maybe I cant sell him like its 2018 baby!!"

At least he was bad in the minor leagues too, so he's consistent! Getz saw a first round pick available and just couldn't help himself!

Love that the org wouldnt trade him out of respect for his family issues, but they'll release him to nickle and dime him out of a few dollars.

"Say it's great to have a rule 5 pick leading your team or you're not a Sox fan!"

Johan Santana had a WAR of zero his rookie year, which was 11th on their team. If it was the same as Shane Smith's that year, he'd have been their 4th best pitcher. You can really tell a Getz apologists by how defensive they get when you make a basic joke about building your team through the Rule 5 draft.

Crazy or hilarious. Depends on how you look at it! Yes, the Sox are so good at scouting and coaching that they needed another teams castaway to lead them.

He led the pitching staff in fWAR and was second on the team in fWAR to a guy who wasn't on the team at the All-Star break. You OK?

Shane Smith, literally, would not have led another pitching staff in baseball in WAR - Only the White Sox. Shane Smith is a nice piece, him leading the team is an obvious indictment on the quality of players you have in your organization. That's the point. No one is mad at Shane.

Mad? It's hilarious. I like Shane Smith, but there's no situation where an entire organization should be incapable of turning out a player better than a player another team let go of for free.

Yeah, I would have traded him yesterday if the plan going perfect was for it to take 4 years of service time (without injury!) for him to be a reliable starter every 5th day.

The math just doesn't math much for me. He'll be lucky to touch 90 innings this year (and that would be a lot!) as a reliever. No relievers throw that many innings these days without spot starts in there. Meaning at most if he moved to starter next year he's a 140 guy (have big doubts he would move next year). So he wouldn't be able to be a full-time starter until year 4 of his 6 years of control at the earliest and that's with everything going right and them suddenly moving him. They also claimed that his release and arm action were preventing him from being a starter today, and from what I saw at end of last year his release and angle of attack hasn't changed at all from when he came up so if he wasn't ready when he came up, how is he ready now? Maybe we'll see some change this year, but again I'm pretty skeptical. The Sox also don't exactly have a surplus of starters either, so him not being capable of even being a part-time guy this year doesn't bode well for his future in the space. This feels more like the Sox saying one thing for value purposes, but their actions show they've pigeon holed him as a reliever. The Crochet comparison is actually a terrible one too, IMO. Crochet was a reliever because the team needed one and they were competitive. The Second they became terrible, he was moved to a starter. Taylor is a reliever when him being one adds no value to the team. They should have stretched him out and kept him on starter schedule in the minor leagues.

Where did they claim that? I haven't seen anything this year implying Taylor will be a starter again. I see next to no chance that Taylor moves into a starter capacity for the White Sox at this point. The Crochet path is not normal and shouldn't be expected of others. All I heard is elite closers have value too so it's not a loss to have him in the bullpen, but he's not even the closer lol. I'm also just sick and tired of spending significant % of our payroll on the f'ing bullpen.

So the Sox are investing in a closer while keeping Grant Taylor in the bullpen. Make it make sense.

The fact that you don't realize how embarrassing it is to have your All-Star and "best player" for the first half be the 41st man on other teams is hilarious at bare minimum.

Some people build through the draft. Other teams build through free agency and trades. The White Sox build through the Rule 5 draft; where you're 41'st man becomes our best man.

I have Pete getting 2 years 18 million+. I think you're thinking too much into the Rays declining the option. That just means they don't want to give him 11 million, not that someone else won't. Also, picking up an option to trade a player for 0 surplus value never makes sense, so Fairbanks could be worth 11 million and the Rays wouldn't pick it up because they don't want to invest the 11 million, and he's worth zero dollars over it so no trade value to speak of.

Always pretty skeptical of the "generational hype" moniker that is thrown around this time of year for baseball. A lot can change between now and draft day, so let's see how people progress and perform. Either way, it's not bad news to get the #1 pick and nice to have something go right for once. It's a shame that Getz is the one making that pick because he blows.

They said last off-season that they weren't eliminating his future as a starter, and we're taking it year to year.... but they were clear he was going to be a bullpen guy this year? When did that happen before today? You can spin this however you'd like. It's a large blow to this teams future with Taylor being destined for the bullpen long term. He was one of the few high level arms they had, and the other two are also facing significant challenges.

An elite closer is most valuable to a team in the playoffs. A great closer on a bad team is almost a worthless player to have. Not only that, but an above average starter is worth more to the team and the market than a great closer, but a great closer might nab you a little more at a deadline and be easier to trade. That I would concede. Throwing in the towel on him as a starter is a huge loss for the organization. Most closer tenures of dominance are pretty short lived, and even truly dominant starters have ups and downs that move them through 4-5-6 organizations in a career.

The Sox already committing to another year of Taylor in the bullpen is a disaster. Insane the Sox did not/have not looked into trading Taylor if he's purely a bullpen arm. What a waste of an arm, and I know some will point to Crochet's shift but that's just not reasonable to expect of someone. Taylor will be 24 all of next season. I don't buy for a second the Sox think he can start because no way they waste all this time on his starter development just so they can get some quality relief innings out of him.

Wheeler, your point is valid. It was the highest offer and strong possibility he accepts when you offer the most. With Machado though.... I could offer 3 million for the house Ishbia is building on the lake, but it doesn't make my offer serious since there was no real chance he would accept when he could get much more guaranteed from other buyers. That said, Pirates have already spent more money than the Sox on a guy.

I would be very surprised if ohearn got 30 million. I'm saying any 2 year deal doesn't top 11 per.

I think you could be right, but Cease being healthy relative to the rest of the league over the past 5 years has a lot of value. Especially with his stuff. I'm not sure he'll ever learn to really pitch, but if he does as he ages I could see him having a pretty reasonable aging curve through his age 33-34 season which would make this a nice deal. If he throws 165+ innings with a FIP below 3.8, he's definitely worth the deal. I don't think that's too far fetched.

Show me the r value of ZIPs lack-of-predictive qualities, and also show me that the variance for youth is statistically significant when compared to others. It surprises me that people still post stuff like you do with very little understanding of what ZIPS does and with very little evidence to refute it. Of course it shouldn't be used for projecting records - it normalizes and projects playing time in a way that doesn't equate directly to wins and losses and isn't actually correlated directly to expected playing time.

Bump