Look at Ray Ray Run

If the spin is tight, I wouldn't say this is true; as long as he's releasing from the same point. Sliders travel on the same plane even longer than change ups. They are both really effective pitches, but again... your last point states the level of mismanagement. It's very very difficult to throw 3 pitches out of the bullpen as a one inning guy. It's very infrequent you have a feel for all three pitches in your first inning. You find feel for pitches as games progress. By throwing Kopech 1 inning for so long, you basically forced him to scrap the change up. There was no time for experimentation given his role

The logic you are presenting here makes no sense... Stretching Kopech out and expanding his innings was derailed by a hamstring injury... also, they could have stretched him out towards the end of the year but then he wouldn't have been available for the post season. So... how did the hamstring derail stretching him out if he couldn't be stretched out anyway without losing postseason eligibility? It can't be both. And the excuse that the injury prevented them from doing something they clearly never had any plans on doing is nonsense imo. People insinuating he wasn't stretched out because of that injury are simply making things up and drawing their own conclusions without an inkling of evidence. The Sox managed Kopech how they did, it was poorly, and based on that mismanagement they don't deserve the benefit of the doubt that they would have done it correctly if not for some 2 week hamstring injury.

He hurt his hamstring/leg.

Edit. Nvm

Sure - Sox Starters: vs Yankees - 4.76 ERA vs Seattle - 3.20 ERA (Ouch Bullpen) vs Houston - 4.66 ERA vs Tampa - 4.37 vs Boston - 6.84 (Lucas... whoops) vs Milwaukee - 2.25 (ouch Bullpen)

You haven't refuted a single thing I've stated. you've made blanket statements that were misleading or incorrect. Sox outperformed their yearly OPS vs a majority of good teams they faced (teams over .500). The Sox didn't pitch and defend vs good teams which led to a poor record and a poor run differential. The offense is not the #1 issue with the team, it's literally the issue of least concern. That doesn't mean they shouldn't improve it, but calling me not smart enough to analyze or comprehend a statistical argument is pretty hilarious. The name calling and ridicule also is basically you surrendering to the point. Statistical analysis is one of the few things in life I am very well educated in, in addition to having an extensive real-life background in it's utilization and processing. Confirmation bias, correlation vs causation, lack of data integrity, and misleading usage of statistics is something you see endlessly in sports conversations. In this case, you have hit a grand slam. Congratulations.

White Sox ERA: vs Yankees - 4.99 vs Seattle - 5.12 vs Houston - 4.7 vs Tampa - 5.07 vs Boston - 4.81 vs Mil - 4.32 Total for the year - 3.73 It was the OFFENSES fault they didn't hit more flyballs and that's why they didn't beat Good teams! It wasn't the defense and pitching staff that struggled. Any other questions, @Tony The offense on the other hand had better OPS than their year-long average against more than half the playoff teams they played in the regular season and more than 65% of the winning teams they played.

How can OPS be wrong? Isn't it the same stat you just used to claim they struggle offensively against good teams? Did you ever think maybe the pitching and defense struggled against good teams? I guess my OPS stats vs those teams were wrong but yours (against two teams) were right. Riveting stuff.

You implied that Jimmy was correct saying hitting more ground balls but having the 3rd ranked offense in baseball was WORSE than being one of the actual worst defensive teams in basebal. It's pure nonsense guy. Then you posted misleading statistics against two pitching staffs to sell your point. Yankees and Boston had better staffs than Houston and Tampa and the Sox hit them just fine. Cinci pitching staff was damn near identical to Houstons and the Sox hit them fine. Any other misleading points you want to make?

Houston OPS against Tampa: 629 Against Yankees: 662 Against White Sox (regular season): 684 A lot of dishonest statistical analysis happening in this thread.

lol Yankees - 759 Oakland - 737 Seattle - 749 Toronto - 736 Cinci - 774 You literally cherry picked the two winning teams they struggled most against. News flash, EVERY good offense hits better against worse pitching. The Sox were fine against more than half the winning teams they played.

glad to hear you would rather have a worse offensive production but hit more fly balls. Thanks for checking in.

The Sox had a higher wRC+ than 5 of those 7 teams. Are you not paying attention? wRC+ evaluates overall offensive production. Ground ball rate evaluates.... ground ball rate. Hmm, I wonder what is more important and telling. Only in your mind I guess would it be better to be worse overall offensively but hit more fly balls.

There is not a single 4 game stretch of any baseball season that should be used to draw conclusions about a team's abilities. 20 straight singles is an aberration, it's not an indication of some wide ranging issue with an offense that was statistically productive all year despite missing four of their more important bats. Saying that the Sox nearly last ranked defense isn't the issue and instead the 3rd ranked offense is the most glaring issue is pure and utter nonsense.

Again, the Sox ranked in the top 5 of baseball all year in hitting with RISP. That is a far better representation of the teams abilities with RISP than any 4 game sample. The Sox were VERY good with RISP. People really need to compare their production to other teams, and stop solely watching the White Sox and thinking they are so bad at things.

Imagine saying this with a straight face: "It’s the #WhiteSox biggest issue. Not the bad defense, the archaic shifting issues or the lack of left-handed bats. It’s imperative that they hit the ball in the air much more often." The White Sox biggest issue wasn't that they were one of the three worst defensive teams in baseball; no... it was that they were only the third best offense in baseball. It's amazing people analyze and discuss this sport for a hobby/living and they have takes like this.

So Lance Lynn shouldn't have had a start either? Cease shouldn't have started? His problem was command, not that the Astros hit fastballs. Kopech was bad. Guess what? You still give the ball to your best players and hope for the best. All you can control is the process Caufield, not the results. If you didn't notice, every pitcher shit the bed.

The point remains. Jimmy claiming that is some glaring issue when the Sox outperformed the majority of teams on that list offensively just shows someone misrepresenting the importance of a singular statistic. The White Sox problem was that they were a poor defensive team (in part due to very poor positioning all year) and their SP - which was a strength in the regular season - let them down in the playoffs. The offense, all season, ranked near the top of baseball. Could they improve in some spots? Sure. Are they susceptible to right handers with sliders due to the make up of their lineup? Yup. Is there ground ball rate preventing them from being a good offense and the reason they're not in the playoffs? Absolutely not.

The White Sox were 3rd in baseball in wRC+. This is a classic example of confirmation bias in statistical analysis. The Sox had a better wRC+ than every team on that list but for Houston and Toronto. They're problem was not offensive production or hitting the ball in the air. If guys like Eloy hit less grounders would he have been better? Sure. Is the offense some glaring issue that needs mass overhaul and correction? No, if the Sox are 3rd or better in wRC+ next year they'll be very good. Saying those teams advanced in the playoffs because they hit more flyball is fucking hilarious and incredible misleading as always. People who look at baseball statistics have a difficult time understanding that correlation does not equal causation.

What was I wrong about exactly? And again pal, Hosmer wasn't delegated to the bench BECAUSE of injuries for the Padres. Hosmer - 151 games player, ZERO fWAR. That's Caufields guy; stans for him as if he was Frank Thomas.

I think someone else said it as well here, but the White Sox are absolutely horrendous at scouting MLB players. They buy high constantly; refuse to believe the production of a player who is aging and deteriorating actually means that; ignore the approach changes that will likely lead to poor production going forward; believe in small samples as representation of massive changes that override larger recent samples of production to the contrary; have no idea what they are missing from their lineup or team in order to acquire players that fit those shortfalls. It was always the process that sucked the most about this deadline. Investing huge resources into the bullpen is not something savvy teams do; wanting power from 2B and trading for someone who had shown a little power for 3 months of his career over the guy who has consistently shown power; ignoring RF as a glaring hole of need. Sure the SP let the team down, and was likely just some bad luck - I don't think the results are representative of what those guys are truly capable of - but the supplementing of this roster at the trade deadline was a disaster and is a further indication that when it comes to MLB scouting, this team is near the bottom of baseball. For as much as they've grown and improved on the developing and amateur side, their talent to make the right move with MLB players is greatly lacking. Sometimes I think the Sox do what the media think is great, while other great teams do what they know is great. The Sox let the narrative dictate their wants and needs - everyone in the media was pandering for Kimbrel, but Kimbrel was never what he once was. The Sox, on the MLB side, are not free independent thinkers and for that reason they failed again.

Say what? Kimbrel is not reliable. There is no guarantee he is anything but shaky next year. The guy should not be handed the closers job. I really don't understand this at all. What Kimbrel showed was not an aberration; it's what he had shown the previous two years before the 35 innings with the Cubs recently. The Sox having 32 million tied up in two relievers would be one of the dumbest decisions this organization has made and that is really saying something.

The irony of this coming from you is you hated the player who was different.

Anyone know how long it takes to get ALCS ticket refunds? Have my card closing in four days and am wondering if I should just pay it off in full or wait for the refund.

Yeah, Greinke really isn't any better than Keuchel at this point I don't think. Had a FIP of 4.71 and that got worse as the year went on.