Look at Ray Ray Run

It's not though; the way socialism is used as a "bad word" entails exactly what I defined. Unless you think Unions and workers rights are bad, and that people don't deserve health care and an education, you support Sanders "Socialism." I don't think it's absurd to ask banks to stop profiting off the death of others. I used the Goldman/Commodities/Corn example yesterday, but Goldman lobbying to remove regulation to prevent price manipulation in the commodities futures market to make it more profitable for them, which in turned led to them exploiting the price of corn and grains so much so that it became too expensive for poor parts of the world and led to the starvation of 100+ million people is horrible. In this country, we literally argue it's capitalism. It caused immense pain for millions of people globally because Goldman didn't think it was making enough on regulated futures. The entire reason the regulation was put in place was to prevent that... No one in this country talks about it, no media, no politicians. 100+ million people... starving because Goldman wanted to increase their margins. It's flat out wrong.

Words meanings actually matter. I know people just enjoy making up new meanings, but it doesn't make them true. Socialism is the collective ownership of production and distribution; regulated by "the people' and not government policy. By no means has Sanders have promoted the changing of ownership to be an entirely collective effort. Unless you think unions are socialist, give it a rest.

I got to say, I've been very impressed by how cordial and respectful the conversation has been here and it gives me hope - however micro - for the future of discord throughout the country!

And this would be fine, if I saw you as outraged about Steve Cohen buying the Mets as you are about Tom stealing bread from the safeway. Fact is, people are much more angry at poor people for stealing. It's baffling.

In relative to the costs today? Uh yeah, a college education back then had a ROI over about 10,000% over a lifetime. The ROI on a college education today is under water for many students.

I've explained this before, but while I view theft as a morally wrong choice that is because I'm privileged enough to view it that way. I've never felt that I was deprived of things - whether food or supplies or technology - that the masses had. It doesn't anger me that people who have been denied basic liberties and hope over 150 years are expressing themselves in ways that make me uncomfortable. Instead of judging actions, I have chosen to analyze the root cause of their desperation.

Bernie Sanders is not a socialist. Bernie Sanders is literally just fighting to restore a system similar to that which existed pre-Reagan for the most part. He still believes in capitalism, he merely thinks it needs extreme checks and balances - which it does! - and that wealth distribution is broken and needs to be reworked. Profit cannot be the sole driver of business - this was literally already shown to use in the Gilded Age 130 years ago. Bernie doesn't want corporations to strip workers rights and etc. These aren't socialist policies IMO. He also thinks health care is a universal right which is not socialist to me; it's just being reasonable and empathetic.

illegality is a response of the oppressed. There is a reason crime is higher in impoverished communities and it's not because none of them have a moral compass and etc. The laws are made by the elite and in the current environment are only enforced on the poor; the war on drugs vs the Sacklers accountability is a great example of this. It's easy to do right when you're not desperate; in fact, it's why the rich who do so much wrong are that much worse imo. Desperation for the entirety of man kind has led to people lashing out; hell, it's how most democracies we adore were established. We seem to excuse greed - when it entails stealing billions - as the way it is but when people steal out of need or necessity, we refer to them as losers and criminals. It's really odd.

I mean, they all dropped out at a time that could not have been more planned. And yes, Bernie has issues with minorities at times because he focus on class first. This has led some to even call him racist, which is a media talking point. I actually think if you uplift class, you would see a dramatic reduction in racism and etc. I think it's a viable plan, but it does not play into the identity politics that has overtaken discord and politics in general in this country. Social issues typically evolve with political issues.

Biden has been very adamant that he was elected because people didn't want progressive policies - he practically shouted it at every debate. I'm here NOT BERNIE! Democrats conveniently leave out that while Bernie may not have one on his own merits if given the chacne, he also was not given a chance to win fair and square in either year.

The funniest part of his stop order to me is this.

Ding ding ding. Things like health care for all and etc are widely popular. Hell, conservative states are on their way to legalizing weed and Oregon just decriminalized all drugs (great move) and etc and we have Biden not even on board federally. The party is just so far behind what the people want that every election is a pitch of voting for the lesser of two evils.

In debates on a national level, we ask candidates every year "how are you going to capture the black vote... the latino vote." That question alone is incredibly disrespectful IMO. My wife doesn't really do politics, but she watched a debate with me where that was a question and her response was classic: "I don't even agree with my cousins or mom on what movies to watch, (let alone) abortion and safety nets. They think we just agree on everything?"

Balta, Democrats have been in power plenty over the last 30 years. Let's stop pretending like they have had their hands tied for 30 years while trying to help the people in need. That's nonsense. Clinton deregulated wall street - Obama decriminalized theft by corporations and banks. Clinton passed the Crime bill. Obama enhanced immigration policy to the point of exploitation by trump. NAFTA destroyed thousands of lives in the midwest, and I'm not saying trade agreements are terrible; Im saying you HAVE TO HAVE A PLAN to take care of those who you are leaving behind while moving forward. You can't just let generations die and lose all hope.

What groups? You are missing the point. Those people voted Democrat for YEARS. They switched, and it's not because they're all racist goons and it certainly isn't because they believe in Trumps fiscal policies and gold toilets. This is what I meant by I hope democrats can self reflect but I think many will be incapable of doing so.

I agree with this as well, but I don't blame those people for being hesitant. They have been lied to endlessly. You can change their mind with actions; show them that a huge green new deal comes with new training and opportunities for everyone who was displaced by it's implementation. Show them that taxing the rich is actually beneficial by investing back in those communities and not into corporate bail outs and bank fraud. Actions speak louder than words, and people are tired of the word fodder from people who have shown them very little love.

Neither of those books say people can't see through political manipulation. Those books focus on those who have been left behind after being promised many things, and then shamed as losers who should have done more to succeed in life. From WV, to inner city detroit and chicago, to ND and SD natives. The fact that you become so off-put and so combative when someone from your supposed "side" points out the many many mistakes and errors over the years has caused a lot of pain that has led to these moments is baffling. Globalization is fine, when you take care of the people you have stripped of everything.

You can read both books; they provide 1000's of stats and countless real world takes and examples from places all around the country. I can post every note I have from those books if you'd like, but that would clutter up this thread beyond belief. You asked for something to back up my claim; I post two long, well reviewed, and well documented/researched books and you discredit it because I don't post a MEME or stat? Come on dude.

It's not just racism; it's this entitled superiority. If you vote for Trump you're stupid, ignorant, racist and don't know shit. I hate Trump; he's a terrible human being who should be in jail for a life filled with fraud and theft but this is a democracy and I am not in a position to yell down anyones pain and tell them how to respond. It's funny, we justify BLM looting because IT IS WARRANTED; it is a reaction to centuries of pain and anger. Yet we can't understand how people left for dead in towns throughout the midwest could also be angry and react in ways that we don't understand I said this already, but people are not voting based on what the media is telling the world. The people in the rustbelt and the midwest voted the way they did because they've been left behind for generations and the Democrats told them repeatedly they'd take care of them, and be there for them. The Republicans will never be there for them, and they are absolutely the worser of the two BUT the Republicans (Trump) make those elite democrats realllly really angry, and the people who feel they have been betrayed and left to rot by the democrats that promised to support them over the past forty years, and instead supported corporate monopolies and bank fraud, are happy to vote for whoever pisses that side off. A couple recommended readings on this from very liberal writers: Matt Taibbi - The Divide Chris Hedges and Joe Sacco - Days of Destruction, Days of Revolt

What is your evidence to support this? "The Cubans were too stupid to see that Biden wasn't really a socialist" is the entire argument, and again there are a lot of hispanics (colombians as well) in South Florida. It's asinine and disrespectful. Did Venezuelans vote overwhelmingly for Trump? Did Argentinians? These all encompassing generalizations take away the individuality of the minority voter, and treats them as if they were children who needed to be coddled and told how to act, who to vote for, and what is best for them.

Why don't we talk about the Irish vote, the English Vote, the German vote the same way we talk about the hispanic and black vote? Instead, whites are always referred to and treated as free thinking whites who are unpredictable and vote on issues and not "race." As if they are some advanced intellectuals that look beyond background and focus on issues. Yet we constantly refer to minorities as one universal voting black that votes in unison absent issues or beliefs. It's nonsense and it's pushing people away from the party.

So all the black people and hispanic people and minorities who voted Trump are racist morons? Because he grew voters in that demographic. The only place Trump lost voters this election was with White Males. Probably because HIllary was running last time and sexism still exists, but still. Open your ears and listen to the pain being screamed from those who have been left behind instead of judging them for their reactionary votes, and displaced anger.

sigh.... things will never ever change with this attitude. How far right does the "liberal" party in America need to go before people understand it's a problem? Yes, how exciting was it when all those former republican war mongers came out in support of biden. Really moved the needle.

Literally nothing ironic about the media pushing centrists talking points. It is to be expected. Just as they pretend all hispanics in southern florida are too stupid to think for themselves and see through the lies? It's just offensive. Identity politics is complete nonsense. Black people don't all think the same; Cubans aren't the same as Mexicans or Venezuelans. These are human beings. Also, everyone who doesn't support your candidate isn't an uneducated idiot; they're not all racist. People are tired of hearing that stuff.

Not buying this for one second; Susan Collins did not lead in a single poll. The Dems are devastated they lost they seat; they were 100% banking on it. You can argue the Graham and Mitch challenges were going to take time and they were trying to move the needle one election at a time, but that entire theory goes out the window with Collins losing. With people sick of money in politics, the Dems answer is to outspend to win. It's illogical.