Look at Ray Ray Run

In 2013 the White Sox drafted Tim Anderson in the 1st round. In 2014 Anderson was fast tracked and finished the year at AA. In 2013 Alexei Ramirez was a 2.8 fWAR SS with elite defense. In 2014, Alexei Ramirez was a 3.3 fWAR with + defense. The plan was obviously to have Alexei play out the final year of his contract in 2015 and Anderson to be on the 2016 club. Anderson had a big 2015 but Alexei fell off the cliff - no one projected 3.3 to go to 0. You said they didn't give Semien a shot at SS. I was pointing out they already had a good SS who was a far better defender than Semien.

You really cant judge the past 2-3 drafts yet. I know it's hard as a fan, but if the team gets multiple impact players out of the drafts they were a success. It's funny because the love of trackman data may have limited their pool a bit, but I still wouldn't judge the drafts quite yet.

The sox had a pretty good defensive SS in 2014. They had a 3 WAR player at that position who was an elite defender

Yes, I share your concerns here. I said earlier my biggest fear with this team is their MLB scouting and evaluations. It's the one thing this team has given us no reason to trust in. This organization has come a long way in the minor league evaluation department and I can say I actually trust their ability to evaluate (not develop, yet) MiLB talent.

How hahn managed the Quintana market, played the patient waiting game, and then got max value DESPITE a down year for Q was by far the most impressive part of hahns tenure as GM (which isnt exactly full of glowing endorsements).

My lord, the shields bs again. Hahn has traded away plenty of prospects. One lotto ticket worked against him. This narrative is so tiring. Semien was a big leaguer when he was traded and frankly, no one has any idea what he would have become here. I've said this about 1000 times, but friedman traded Yordan Alvarez for Josh Fields. Does that mean Friedman doesnt know how to trade? Everyone gets burned once in a while if you're active enough in the trade market.. Its not easy to trade three high valued assets and win every single trade; regardless of how little credit you want to give him for those moves. I dont worry about hahn getting fleeced in a trade one bit.

Again with attacking the organization for the one thing theyve actually been good at recently - high profile trades.

Every single east coast media piece said the Yankees would not lose out on Cole; to be fair.

They want to get under the tax and reset so that the Mookie contract doesn't cost them 90 million extra in taxes. I'll believe the Red Sox are going to lose a generational talent - who has a chance to be an all-time great - when I see it happen.

No, obviously not Jack but if you want to be that guy so be it.

Everyone is saying nightengale report is likely nonsense. Said this before but the red sox arent trading Mookie. I also think they want to do everything they fan to resign him but they dont want to publically show that and take away the little leverage they have in shedding salaries.

Show me a single mega trade the sox have made in recent memory where they got completely fleeced. It's almost like fans cant seperate the teams inability to do well in other areas from their ability to do well in trades. There is nothing about hahns trade history that makes me concerned that hes going to give up the farm here.

Got it, misread it. That makes a lot more sense. Thanks for clarifying.

Difference is, when the Twins have called up guys from the minors to fill they have gotten OK production. The Sox get Dylan Cover - who I can't believe Fegan still believes in ha. I get how you could be enamored with his raw stuff - everything moves with velocity. It's very obvious that Covey has no idea what he's doing though and that's not changing.

I share your optimism that this team isn't as far away as many think, but there's no chance they open as the division favorite. If the Sox did the above, and the Twins/Indians did nothing else they would both still be favored over the Sox. The Twins will be favored over the Sox regardless of how they shore up their rotation. The Indians will be favored if they don't move Lindor/another piece. They practically played all last year without Kluber already. His move really doesn't impact 2020 for them much. Expecting an 18 win turnaround is just too much. I think it CAN happen, but I don't think we can expect it to happen enough to make them favorites.

Fair enough

So when a National writer tweets out a players market, that's not tying them together? Interesting take. So what classifies as tying a team and player together? I'll hang up and listen.

No, but you shouldn't make some negative blanket statement if you don't know the truth behind it. Now you're doubling down on your point, that was wrong in the first place. Sheesh.

1. I never said they would get Ryu. 2. You lied and said that they weren't even linked to Ryu; I merely pointed out that you were lying.

Ken Rosenthal literally linked the White Sox to Ryu last night.

Prospect rankings are about 1000% more efficient today than they were in 2000 as well.

Yeah, I don't think I'd go to the 4th year without some incentive in the 3rd year of actually being able to pitch. If Ryu dies in year 2, that would just hurt this teams window too much to hold him for two more dead years. Even if the buyout was 5-7 million that would be fine.

I'd go to a 4th year option that kicks in at some minimal 18 starts in the 3rd year.

Avi supposedly had 3 year offers out there but wanted to bet on himself after the new CBA.

You didnt cite 5.1. You cited 3.3. Why is it foolish to expect a player to improve though? A guy like giolito would be a prime example of a player who you could argue should grow. He had no mechanics last year and it was his first year of success. I'm not dismissing anything; I'm saying I dont use Steamer as my primary projection system for young players as I find it to be better at projecting established players than young/unproven player.