greg775

You don't think a cocky guy like Ozzie deep down looks down on Kenny cause he was a lousy ballplayer and Oz, though he tended to swing at every pitch which was maddening, was a good ballplayer? Big league ballplayers are cocky. That's why Ozzie doesn't give a f*** what the fans say. He'll win any shouting match with KW or a fan, cause he's ozzie. a giu spoiled by the life and money accorded a big league starter/huge contributor. He was a good ballplayer and I think you are naive to think Oz doesn't shove that back in KW's face. KW was a horrible ballplayer; Ozzie a good one. I'm not saying a bad ballplayer can't be a good GM. I think it's something Ozzie can scoff at Kenny during their "discussions" about teams. Yes KW is his "boss" -- sort of.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 23, 2010 -> 04:21 AM) I just can't believe you'd be foolish enough to continue to have this thought process after the early contributions we've received from Beckham and Sale the past few years. But we've been through this before. How do we know Beckham is not still available one or two slots either way. Ditto Sale. And if we don't get them, do we get somebody equally good? I mean lets say we are 10 out at the all star break. Would you be hoping we lose every game the rest of the way just to assure the No. 1 pick? I think it's too many ifs and buts to think that way. It's simpler to go out and play baseball and win. That other stuff is all crystal ball. Now the thing about compensation, I can buy that argument in some ways I guess.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 23, 2010 -> 01:08 AM) Ozzie is making this a public showdown. If he really wants to stay here, I think he's making a huge mistake. As people say its a lot easier to can a manager than the players, its also easier to can a manager than a GM if you consider yours competent which I believe JR does. Hahn can't get the GM job while Ozzie is managing because Oney called Hahn names and believes you need to play the game professionally (I suppose like he did) to know the game and have the Guillen family's respect. I'm sure that's not Oney's original thought. He got it from his dad. There's enough that has gone down where one of them probably has to go. I'm betting JR sticks with KW. He knows Ozzie will probably land in Florida with a longer committment and raise. He can probably have LaRussa back. Duncan comes with LaRussa, Cooper heads to Miami. As usual I agree with Dick Allen. This is probably what will happen. I think Jerry's backing the wrong guy in Kenny, though. It really seems like a KW-Ozzie showdown and Reinsdorf really can't afford to have another year with the 2 at each other's throats and unable to work together. Reinsdorf could meet with the two of them after offering Oz an extension and demand that they behave. But he's not dumb. It appears to be too late for that to have a chance at succeeding. s***, the 2 of them probably will flat out tell Jerry they can't work together. Ozzie obviously thinks Kenny is incompetent and looks down on him since he was a s***ty ballplayer. Meanwhile Kenny if you read Cowley wants nothing to do with Ozzie, to just never be near him. I would think what Dick Allen said is the likely scenario. Jerry knows Ozzie has a great landing spot in Florida. Oz will be let go and hook on with Florida (it may be embarrassing timing for a few weeks however; they'll probably call it a resignation to pursue other opportunities) and I bet Jerry will actually will change Kenny's job and keep him in the organization. It'll be a new GM and new manager rather than simply letting KW win this battle. LaRussa for manager and LaRussa picks the GM Hope this works. Only way I see KW and Oz returning is they assure Jerry of a truce, but how can Jerry trust that? If 2 people hate each other, they really can't work together. Only way to exist is to avoid each other, which the GM and manager can't do.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 23, 2010 -> 01:13 AM) Oh great, posts like this again I just don't see why a couple draft slots matter. There are too many examples of busts in the first round anyway. Wasn't Ben Davis a first round draft pick?

What team do you think is the best fit for Jenks? Cubs?

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Sep 22, 2010 -> 07:54 PM) You know, a change of venue for Ozzie would probably be good for him. His managing style may work better in Florida, and maybe he won't rub as many people the wrong way. If he does make his way down south, he'll take his family circus with him. Let's hope for the Marlins' sake that he and his sons don't do battle with their GM. I agree with your post Pitt. I just don't think he and the sons will have any trouble down there. There quite frankly won't be the audience. I guess he could stir things up in the Florida media, but there's not a lot of interest there. It's a good spot to go and frankly go away. He'll get very little attention down there locally or nationally. What type of controversy can he cause in Florida? Oz will be more of a statesman down there. I guess he could cause a lot of trouble during his series with the Cubs when he's back with the Chicago media. If he acts up everytime they play the Cubs or sox in interleague, I guess he could still get in some trouble on those days.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Sep 23, 2010 -> 12:19 AM) I would as well, but Jenks would easily get more than that on the open market from some team. And that team won't be the Sox. Agreed. I want him as a starter to see what he can do. Then again, the first time his arm falls off, it's to the closer's spot for you kid. I get a kick out of how Sox fans hate on Jenks (not nitetrain specifically) but in the same breath fans say other teams are going to offer him a ton of cash to be their closer. So which is it? Does Bobby suck? if so, why would ANYBODY want him. And if several teams want him, why wouldn't the Sox and their fans want him? Is it your (by your I mean Jenks haters) simplistic, oh he'll do well in the NL argument? As if the NL is Class A ball or something? I just ifnd it funny Sox fans say other teams will line up to pay Jenks a ton of money. But if he's as rotten as Sox fans on here have said all year, WTF would anybody want him?? I mean he should be out of baseball if he's as bad a closer as everybody on here says. --Nice to see the Sox are still capable of winning a game. And it was come from behind so I guess those who say the team has quit figure every so often the team will try.

After reading Cowley's story, I don't see how anybody could want Kenny over Ozzie. Kenny sounds like an egomaniac with his restauranting and pretty boy attitude. His acquisition of Teahen was a joke and his trade of Hudson for a similar type pitcher was equally dumb. As far as Ozzie, he is an egomaniac as well. But at least he was a far better player than Kenny. Give Ozzie another GM to work with. Jerry's silence, however, makes me think he will back Kenny on this one. That's dumb. It's Ozzie over Kenny in this battle. It is sad when former players come back to manage the team that made them famous. Because managers are hired to be fired and when Ozzie gets canned there will be hard feelings and he'll probably never be a Sox again. Hal McRae was a great great Royal; now he never comes back after getting canned as manager. To a lesser extent, Wathan was a very good Royal and though he works for the team now, there were hard feelings when he got canned. It's why Frank White can't ever be manager.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Sep 23, 2010 -> 12:20 AM) Even when the Sox win, Kotsay and Teahan screw us over. Worse chance at a higher pick thanks to them. A higher pick means nothing. There are too many variables in the baseball draft to think a spot or two matter. I'd think you would say Teahen "screwed us over" by maybe impressing somebody to not get rid of him this winter. Hopefully Kotsay simply won't be invited back. Thanks for the victory today, though, Mark and Mark. I'll take it. This team won't lose 13 in a row and tie for the all time record White sox losing streak.

Well then they still should be thrilled. Why wouldn't you want Ozzie Guillen? He has a WS title at a young age. Good manager. Fun guy. He won't be as out of control media wise down there. Different venues. He has more passion up here cause he is a White Sox. That's who he is. Down there he'll be just another guy. Probably good for his health in the long run.

QUOTE (Real @ Sep 22, 2010 -> 04:16 PM) here's a guess: because the team was just 'ok' prior to 05, and 'ok' to 'bad' afterwards people want their team to have a sustained stretch of dominance after winning a world series, and if they don't, they write it off as a fluke year was 2005 a fluke? it depends on how you look at it, and what you consider a fluke the team IN 2005, was amazing, and if you want to just look AT 2005 only, then that year was elite in every way imaginable i try not to draw comparisons to 2005 from other years because then you start seeing things like Jordan4life No team that has as many good "name" players and pitchers as that Sox team could be accused of a "fluke" season. The team was excellent and won. What if Butler would have hit the final shot and won the NCAA title last year? Fluke? When Kansas beat Memphis a few years ago and wiped out a 9 point deficit in the last 2 minutes. Fluke. Any non-favored baseball team winning it all? Fluke. Cmon. Sports are about making the playoffs then playing well when you get there. That White Sox team was excellent. It was no fluke. If we'd ever make the playoffs again, our pitching staff on paper is good enough to not make our next title a fluke either. I personally think it's an insulting term. The Sox won in dominating fashion. Why is that a fluke? Your reasoning is not real good to me. It may have been unexpected to some. By the end of the regular season that team had shown enough for wise pepole to think it had a chance to go all the way. No fluke. I guess in your way of thinking there are flukes all over sports (New Orleans last year?) so I shouldn't get so mad. Flukes in your line of thinking way outnumber non flukes in sports.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 22, 2010 -> 01:58 PM) Really, that one is true. It's never heartening to see a team completely give up. I still say "giving up" is hard to gauge and is a cliche. AJ throwing a couple balls into the outfield is not giving up, it's probably being less alert, etc., with the team out of it. Guys f***ing up on this team? Pitchers sucking? Why is that giving up? It's playing like horses*** is what it is. I don't buy the "giving up" business.

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Sep 22, 2010 -> 02:15 PM) I wonder if Florida Marlins fans are excited about the thought of Ozzie being their next manager. Has anyone seen anything? EDIT: I just answered my own question... What fans? They should be thrilled. Don't a lot of Chicago retirees live down there anyway? They'll love him. Hope we don't face them in the WS.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Sep 22, 2010 -> 06:06 PM) Florida will fall in love with Ozzie Guillen. He is a rising star; already has one WS title before 50. Should get many more here, but too bad much of the fan base could not just accept the fact he knows what he's doing. Yes Florida will. You have the correct take on this.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Sep 22, 2010 -> 12:10 AM) Highly doubtful. Why is it that you think the worst of this organization if Ozzie leaves? Its like you are wanting them to do bad because this, for lack of a better word, divorce is happening. It doesnt make sense, if you are a fan of the team you should want them to do well and understand that Ozzie has done a tremendous amount of PR damage to himself and damage to the relationship of the team that employs him through his own mouth and his sons mouth. QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Sep 22, 2010 -> 12:12 AM) Your posts are absolutely ridiculous. You really think that Buddy Bell, owner of a .418 winning percentage and who has never managed a better than 3rd place team, would be offered this position? 1.) If Ozzie leaves, believe me, I still want us to win. I will not want them to fail. That's like saying I'll want our next closer to fail just because I worship Bobby. No, I want next year's closer to do well. 2.) Yes. QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Sep 22, 2010 -> 01:19 AM) I have to hand it to you, Greg. You are all over the place. As far as Torre goes, I say there's no chance. He's 70, so he wouldn't be around long (coaching, that is). Buddy Bell? I doubt it. If Ozzie leaves, and if he does it'll be on his own terms, I see the Sox going younger again, like with Ozzie. And it might be someone from within the organization (Cora?). I know you love Ozzie, but you make it sound like this team would never win an other game if he's not back next year. Yes, the Sox won it all in 2005, but other than that, how many times did the Sox make the playoffs under Ozzie?

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 22, 2010 -> 03:06 AM) This is good news if true. I want sweeping changes throuout the organization. 2005 was priceless (and a fluke). But we've been a loser organization for too long now. Be mad all you want, but don't call that season a fluke. So if we would have lost in the ALCS it would have been a typical Sox magical season (only making the playoffs before meekly dropping out), but just because we made the playoffs and excelled once in the playoffs, you call it a fluke. Sir, that flat out pisses me off. DONT CALL 05 A FLUKE!!! If you do, give me some reasons. The team STEPPED UP in the postseason. It's not that hard to make the postseason. Once the Sox got there this time, the Sox excelled. It was no f***ing fluke. The Sox, who had some f***ing good, PROVEN baseball players, made the playoffs, could have wet the bed (as all other Sox postseason teams in our lifetimes have done) but didn't. The team kicked ass and even swept Houston's ass in the WS. Houston being there also was a "fluke" right? Only they f***ing got swept. Name some other "flukes" for me throughout sports history. My guess is anytime a non-No. 1 seed in any sport wins it all, it's a f***ing fluke?? Not in my world. Making the playoffs when you play in the Central in theory should be easy. We made the playoffs and kicked some f***ing ass. It was no damn fluke! Any Sox fan that thinks we won by a fluke sure confuses me. I could see a Cub fan saying that, not a Sox fan. p.s. If the Twins win it all this year it won't be a fluke. It'll be a division champ making the playoffs and stepping up and competing and winning when it counts. Ban me if you want, but I truly believe that if any alleged Sox fan believes '05 was a f***ing "fluke" he is no true fan. What is a f***ing fluke anyway? Any team that's not favored that COMPETES and wins it all??? Sure it was unexpected. But The Sox are the 05 World Series champions. They WON IT, not by any damn fluke.

QUOTE (buhbuhburrrrlz @ Sep 22, 2010 -> 05:41 AM) Such a brutal ending to this season. QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Sep 22, 2010 -> 05:48 AM) In 5 seasons since our World Championship, we've missed the playoffs 4 times and have a grand total of one postseason win and zero postseason series wins. I think we've sufficiently killed the momentum the glory of 2005 built. And that's a shame. QUOTE (Cali @ Sep 22, 2010 -> 05:56 AM) I look forward to some serious changes in the off-season, and if not, some serious thinking about if I want to waste my time and heart on this team in 2011... 1.) Horrible ending to the season. I wouldn't mind this team dropping 14 straight to set the all time Sox single consecutive loss record. Why? I dunno. Tonight I'm pissed at this team. 2.) I would have never thought we'd suck this badly in our own division since winning the WS. Mind boggling. 3.) I hate to say it, but me as well. I really don't like Juan Pierre and Mark Teahen and Jones and Kotsay and some of the other stiffs on this team, like most of our bullpen.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 22, 2010 -> 01:19 AM) Yes. Who cares? Manny sucked like the rest of this bunch of second-half wet-the-bedders.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Sep 22, 2010 -> 04:05 AM) I'd kill for us to purge this team. I want to put this s*** behind us and let the Beckham/Rios era begin. No offense, but they were starters all year when healthy. The Beckham/Rios era is well underway.

I don't know about you guys and girls but I really think Oz will reach an agreement with Jerry that lets him go to Florida. I expect the rumors of his resignation to happen. When the team is going this badly, it looks like the future is grim. Our starters have been horses*** of late. The bullpen sucks and we know all about this lineup which has actually overachieved. It is the worse lineup in our division on paper heading into next season. Are we Sox fans in for some serious misery for some time to come?

Thanks very much Soxgirl. I have been looking all over. So it's 13. We got a shot.

The Sox scored a run in Oakland. Nice job, white Sox, you disgrace of a second half baseball team.

I tried to locate the longest losing streak in Sox history. Can't find it anywhere. I just have a feeling we're going to break that record this year from hell.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 22, 2010 -> 03:58 AM) Ozzie doesn't seem ready to put Viciedo into the starting lineup full-time. The scary thing is that if Konerko leaves, there's a very good opportunity for Ozzie to bring back Kotsay and play 1B in a platoon. If that happens, can we pray for a player's strike? If Kotsay comes back it will be difficult to support the team next year. Same with Jones, Omar and Pierre and Teahen, though I guess we have to have Juan. Seroiusly are we gonna win another game this year? Sox must be intimidated by that big A's crowd.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 22, 2010 -> 03:55 AM) Well, that team will f***ing suck then. Well, Morel will be an upgrade over this year you would think. Omar is too old. Viciedo might emerge as a stud hitter. He better work on the scoops; Paulie is a master at scoops. Morel at third, Lexi at ss, Beckham at second is a pretty good defensive infield. Viciedo at first ... he better work this winter.