greg775

QUOTE (knightni @ Sep 24, 2010 -> 03:55 AM) Ozzie used to piss me off as a player because he had the hitting selectivity of Alexei Ramirez and the power potential of Juan Pierre. He swung at everything, but I disagree on the pop in his bat. He had more pop than Pierre by far.

Good post Soxfan. If he does leave I will say he dug his own grave (unless this is his master plan) by responding to reporters' questions about his contract and future in Chicago. Most dull managers would have shut up and said, "I have a contract and that is that." But Ozzie being Ozzie went off. So if Jerry doesn't bite and give him an extension, he burned his own bridge. He can't expect to do something like that, when like one of the columnists said, he'd have freaked had one of his players taken a contract issue public at this stage of the season. To those of you who say I never criticize Ozzie. .... I repeat again ... Ozzie Guillen was wrong in not wanting Thome. He was wrong in wanting Kotsay and playing Kotsay too much. He was wrong in not going against Kenny and simply never using Linebrink even though the Sox pay Linebrink. And he was wrong in wanting Juan Pierre and going small ball in a home run hitter's park. This all has to do with Ozzie the wannabe GM. I said he should be stripped of all say in personnel and manage the team. I still don't know why I waste so much time backing a guy who makes millions of dollars a year, will continue to make millions next year whether in Florida NY or on TV and I am stuck in the middle class. This rich man sure doesn't need my support and frankly doesn't need a job unless he's squandered all his millions.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Sep 23, 2010 -> 11:19 PM) But you have to understand that you are partially blind in this conversation as well. Look at what you just said. You give ZERO credit to Ozzie for the moves he made in 2005 including those in the playoffs, yet you very easily point out his negative influence on the team. You made my points into a defending Ozzie position which you probably will again even when I clearly pointed out that I was talking in generalities about people's opinions being influenced by outside factors. There is more that just Greg on one extreme side of the discussion, there are the haters on the other side which have a very narrow view of the truth as well. At least I finally see where you are coming from as you put it clearly in your last line. That is all you really needed to say in this thread instead of insulting Greg and typing long responses to my posts about defending Ozzie when i clearly stated I wasnt. It makes alot of sense to me that you want a more logical/statistical influenced manager who is more comfortable playing the game by the book instead of feel. That would be the logical direction to go after getting rid of a pure feel manager. Its like replacing a players coach with a hard-nosed defensive minded guy because its a change. But I'm not sure the pointed insults at people helped you make your point. And back to 2005 for the last time. They didnt win in spite of Ozzie at all. That was clearly one of his best managerial performances as he played his cards almost perfectly from beginning to end, especially in the playoffs. Putting El Duque in against Boston, Bobby in early against Bagwell, leaving Cotts in to strike out the side, finding Bobby immediately after his blown save, leaving the pitchers in in LA, Geoff Blum, Willie Harris, aligning the rotation so Freddy pitched on the road, Dye in the 3-hole. He made alot of top notch moves that postseason and leading up to it, I am not sure how you can ever state the opposite. QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 24, 2010 -> 12:35 AM) Shame on greg for forcing excellent posters to break down Ozzie's overall ineptitude as a player. Even his annoying as f*** kids knows he sucked. Do you guys even read the newspapers? You make it sound as if I'm the only person out there who thinks Ozzie rocks. Both columnists take my position. I'm not saying everything in print matters, but you act like I am some lone soldier in support of Ozzie. I will just say I agree with Rock's post. It was beautiful. And you guys (in my opinion) are nuts if you think Ozzie Guillen wasn't a great baseball shortstop. Or a damn good one. What do you guys want in all your baseball players? Pujols at every position? How many years did Ozzie start for a big league team??? He was damn good. I said he swung at everything and that hurt him overall. Hope Tank gets that under control. Cause you have to draw some walks.

The bottom line is this is in Oz's court now. He either keeps the current contract or will leave on his own for Florida or the Mets. It's all up to Oz. I have no idea with a guy of his-sized ego will do in this situation. The bottom line is he'll be making more than a million next year no matter what so he's in great shape compared to many of us in this s*** economy. He'll either be with sox, marlins, mets or tv. He's got it made. He and his ego have it made.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 23, 2010 -> 08:33 PM) Have you ever heard of the Chicago Bears? The 2010 Stanley Cup Champion Chicago Blackhawks? That was quoted from the trib article.

Didn't Mark hit the next hitter? What do you want him to do? Pull out a knife? You hate Ozzie; I love Ozzie. We agree to disagree I guess. I know one thing. I'm not going to change my opinion and I would guess you won't either.

QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Sep 23, 2010 -> 08:54 PM) He was beloved because of 2005 and that's it. So if one article agrees with your point of view, you don't have the blinders on, you're just right. But if it disagrees with you it's, BS... am I understanding you correctly? Man, I really am trying not to insult you, but with every blind post you make it gets harder and harder not to. I'm just trying to understand where in the world you get your sense of logic (or your lack of logic, actually) from... QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Sep 23, 2010 -> 09:00 PM) oooooooh i see. must be 100 percent true since Cowley said it and he has a pen in his hand. Say, did you ever hear about this veteran trusted reporter getting banned from voting on the end of season rewards because he deliberately voted wrong so that the award winners would be different? If he is so trusted, why did his own peers suspend him? strange. I now have a pen in my hand. whatever I say is now true. I am going to write "The Sox will sign Albert Pujols" and it must be true now edit: I just looked at Joe Cowleys wikipedia page and found this "On 10/09/2008 Cowley and wife Brent Lillibridge married in middle earth in front of members of the Pittsburgh Steelers." 1.) He was a damn popular shortstop here as well. Both papers called him the face of the White Sox and one of the most popular figures in Chicago. Slam dunk for greg. 2.) Both papers said it. Read their takes on it. I hope Ozzie does go and will laugh at all of you second guessing our new manager's moves every game. Cause that's what Soxtalk does now. The posters freak out over all the moves during games. And guess what, the new manager's moves are going to drive you just as wild. I will enjoy watching you all implode. But hey, you'll just want the next guy fired immediately as well. That's why I say welcome to the revolving door of managers again. Ozzie was our best manager in Sox history ... period.

Ha, just found this quote in the other newspaper, sun times, bout ozzie Guillen is the most popular man in a Sox jersey in town. He might be the most popular sports figure in town. He helps put butts in seats. And he's a good manager. How would not signing him to a new contract help the organization? Yes! That Morrissee colun was excellent and the correct take on this IMO.

Another thing about ego. KW spends a whole article talking about going to the Raiders. His ego is enormous as well. Ozzie should win this battle. Game, set, match, Ozzie.

Doesn't LaRussa do this every year or so? I would imagine he'd want to stay in St. Looie if he wants to keep managing. Unlike here, the people actually realize he can stay as long as he wants to. They get mad but have never run him out of town like many on Soxtalk try to do with WS titlist Ozzie. LaRussa would be a fool to come back here. I would suspect he'll think better of it. Not a good move for him. It's just not. Cardinals are a much better organization than the White Sox. Money about the same I'd suspect. I mean how close is he with Jerry?? Both LaRussa and Ozzie have huge egos. Ozzie's ego may have forced his hand to leave Chicago this time. But Florida won't be a bad consolation prize for him. Not a bad one at all. Probably get a 5 year deal out of it for big bucks in great part of the country.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Sep 23, 2010 -> 07:00 PM) Greg, you define the term "with blinders on". unreal QUOTE (That funky motion @ Sep 23, 2010 -> 07:01 PM) I got this from a radio guy who comes in my business. He said, he ran into Ozzie's son at the East Bank Club. Ozzie's son said that if the Sox don't sign Oz to an longer deal, that Oz will call Jim Hendry personally, to try to manage the Cubs. 1.) The article called him a beloved figure in the city of Chicago. He's a veteran trusted reporter. And you say I have the blinders on?? The guy with the pen in his hand backs me. 2.) That story has BS all over it. He'd have one of his people call the Cubs to say he's interested.

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Sep 23, 2010 -> 03:33 PM) ON TOP OF THAT they then turned around and hit Juan Pierre later on that same game without retaliation from the Sox. There should have been a at least one Twin leaving the field with a concussion or a broken hand that night. And I know I know... concussions are serious business and you never want to purposely injure another athlete and blah blah blah. Tell that to Pavano and punk ass Delmon Young. Jerry Reinsdorf and Eddie Einhorn don't own the Sox. The Twins do. And as much as I love Ozzie, if he doesn't have the balls to inspire his team to protect themselves, then he can go have a nice life managing the Marlins or the Braves. You guys amaze me sometimes. How bout just beating the Twins once in a while to make a statement. A broken hand? You guys would be happy if this was like hockey and the guys could duke and you could see a little blood. If we could answer on the field, that would be the best response? A concussion? Broken hand? are you serious??? How bout winning. Konerko had the best response. A f***ing home run his next at bat.

QUOTE (IamtheHBOMB @ Sep 23, 2010 -> 01:55 PM) 99 is right on here. I was still a kid when Ozzie left as a FA in '97, but I distinctly remember watching him swing at pitches a foot outside the plate at-bat after at-bat. Dude was a terrible hitter and I was certain of that at the ripe old age of 10. He was not a terrible hitter. He swings at everything much like Tank. He was a decent hitter and a good baseball player. He's also a damn good manager. Whatever team he goes to I will start to follow and root for No. 2 behind the Sox. Guillen is very likeable.

Ha, most of "the city" agrees with me, not Saxtalk. Read that story over and over how much Guillen is beloved. Ozzie rocks. Also, nice way for Kenny to throw in his own ego about how are he is working. Poor, poor KW who put this piece of s*** second half product on the field. Hope you can sleep a few hours, Kenny, staying up all night. "No, not for me," Williams said. "I won't rule that out one day. My competitiveness to win a world championship in Chicago has not waned one bit. The weariness from lack of sleep and trying to figure out how to right the ship, that's exhausting, yes. But I'm not tired of my job here."

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 23, 2010 -> 03:58 AM) Please stop acting like Ozzie was Barry Bonds. I've never heard a worse argument than the one you're trying to make about Ozzie not respecting KW because of their athletic ability. If he really is that arrogant, then why the hell would you want him managing your favorite team? If I'm wrong I'd like a Sox insider to tell me there's no Ozzie superiority complex going on in regards to KW, largely in part because Ozzie will never listen to a guy who was 1/10th the ballplayer Oz was. Oz could field; he hit better than average. He was a very good player. Big ego ballplayers inherently think they know a lot more about the game than somebody like KW who couldn't play the game. If I'm wrong I'm wrong. I never discount egos from professional athletes. The only way this can work in the future is if this season at all humbled Ozzie, and it probably didn't. The media doesn't help by not being more aggressive. He should be getting grilled about the Thome thing and his penchant for playing NL ball in an AL home run park. I despise Mariotti, but Oz would have been taken to task by this year's bad personnel decisions by Mariotti (Thome, Kotsay, Pierre, bunting). The media is OK but nobody has gone after Oz for his dumb GM decisions. If Oz lets another GM actually make all the personnel moves it might work in the future. Oz did prove this year he's not a good judge of the everday talent it takes to win.

It was an unexpected championship, fine, I guess. Would last year have been another fluke, then? People were saying that if could just make it to the playoffs, with Peavy we had the rotation built for the postseason and could win it all. You keep hearing that we are a team built to win in the postseason if we can just get there. So last year would not have been a fluke? I hate the talk of flukes. Go through all the champions in all sports the last 20 years and you'll find a lot of "unexpected" champions. Again, what would Butler basketball have been last year if the ball goes in at the buzzer? A fluke? Or an unexpected, sensational champion? I think fluke is a derogatory word. So it was an unexpected title in many respects. Big deal. Welcome to championship play.

You don't think a cocky guy like Ozzie deep down looks down on Kenny cause he was a lousy ballplayer and Oz, though he tended to swing at every pitch which was maddening, was a good ballplayer? Big league ballplayers are cocky. That's why Ozzie doesn't give a f*** what the fans say. He'll win any shouting match with KW or a fan, cause he's ozzie. a giu spoiled by the life and money accorded a big league starter/huge contributor. He was a good ballplayer and I think you are naive to think Oz doesn't shove that back in KW's face. KW was a horrible ballplayer; Ozzie a good one. I'm not saying a bad ballplayer can't be a good GM. I think it's something Ozzie can scoff at Kenny during their "discussions" about teams. Yes KW is his "boss" -- sort of.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 23, 2010 -> 04:21 AM) I just can't believe you'd be foolish enough to continue to have this thought process after the early contributions we've received from Beckham and Sale the past few years. But we've been through this before. How do we know Beckham is not still available one or two slots either way. Ditto Sale. And if we don't get them, do we get somebody equally good? I mean lets say we are 10 out at the all star break. Would you be hoping we lose every game the rest of the way just to assure the No. 1 pick? I think it's too many ifs and buts to think that way. It's simpler to go out and play baseball and win. That other stuff is all crystal ball. Now the thing about compensation, I can buy that argument in some ways I guess.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 23, 2010 -> 01:08 AM) Ozzie is making this a public showdown. If he really wants to stay here, I think he's making a huge mistake. As people say its a lot easier to can a manager than the players, its also easier to can a manager than a GM if you consider yours competent which I believe JR does. Hahn can't get the GM job while Ozzie is managing because Oney called Hahn names and believes you need to play the game professionally (I suppose like he did) to know the game and have the Guillen family's respect. I'm sure that's not Oney's original thought. He got it from his dad. There's enough that has gone down where one of them probably has to go. I'm betting JR sticks with KW. He knows Ozzie will probably land in Florida with a longer committment and raise. He can probably have LaRussa back. Duncan comes with LaRussa, Cooper heads to Miami. As usual I agree with Dick Allen. This is probably what will happen. I think Jerry's backing the wrong guy in Kenny, though. It really seems like a KW-Ozzie showdown and Reinsdorf really can't afford to have another year with the 2 at each other's throats and unable to work together. Reinsdorf could meet with the two of them after offering Oz an extension and demand that they behave. But he's not dumb. It appears to be too late for that to have a chance at succeeding. s***, the 2 of them probably will flat out tell Jerry they can't work together. Ozzie obviously thinks Kenny is incompetent and looks down on him since he was a s***ty ballplayer. Meanwhile Kenny if you read Cowley wants nothing to do with Ozzie, to just never be near him. I would think what Dick Allen said is the likely scenario. Jerry knows Ozzie has a great landing spot in Florida. Oz will be let go and hook on with Florida (it may be embarrassing timing for a few weeks however; they'll probably call it a resignation to pursue other opportunities) and I bet Jerry will actually will change Kenny's job and keep him in the organization. It'll be a new GM and new manager rather than simply letting KW win this battle. LaRussa for manager and LaRussa picks the GM Hope this works. Only way I see KW and Oz returning is they assure Jerry of a truce, but how can Jerry trust that? If 2 people hate each other, they really can't work together. Only way to exist is to avoid each other, which the GM and manager can't do.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 23, 2010 -> 01:13 AM) Oh great, posts like this again I just don't see why a couple draft slots matter. There are too many examples of busts in the first round anyway. Wasn't Ben Davis a first round draft pick?

What team do you think is the best fit for Jenks? Cubs?

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Sep 22, 2010 -> 07:54 PM) You know, a change of venue for Ozzie would probably be good for him. His managing style may work better in Florida, and maybe he won't rub as many people the wrong way. If he does make his way down south, he'll take his family circus with him. Let's hope for the Marlins' sake that he and his sons don't do battle with their GM. I agree with your post Pitt. I just don't think he and the sons will have any trouble down there. There quite frankly won't be the audience. I guess he could stir things up in the Florida media, but there's not a lot of interest there. It's a good spot to go and frankly go away. He'll get very little attention down there locally or nationally. What type of controversy can he cause in Florida? Oz will be more of a statesman down there. I guess he could cause a lot of trouble during his series with the Cubs when he's back with the Chicago media. If he acts up everytime they play the Cubs or sox in interleague, I guess he could still get in some trouble on those days.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Sep 23, 2010 -> 12:19 AM) I would as well, but Jenks would easily get more than that on the open market from some team. And that team won't be the Sox. Agreed. I want him as a starter to see what he can do. Then again, the first time his arm falls off, it's to the closer's spot for you kid. I get a kick out of how Sox fans hate on Jenks (not nitetrain specifically) but in the same breath fans say other teams are going to offer him a ton of cash to be their closer. So which is it? Does Bobby suck? if so, why would ANYBODY want him. And if several teams want him, why wouldn't the Sox and their fans want him? Is it your (by your I mean Jenks haters) simplistic, oh he'll do well in the NL argument? As if the NL is Class A ball or something? I just ifnd it funny Sox fans say other teams will line up to pay Jenks a ton of money. But if he's as rotten as Sox fans on here have said all year, WTF would anybody want him?? I mean he should be out of baseball if he's as bad a closer as everybody on here says. --Nice to see the Sox are still capable of winning a game. And it was come from behind so I guess those who say the team has quit figure every so often the team will try.

After reading Cowley's story, I don't see how anybody could want Kenny over Ozzie. Kenny sounds like an egomaniac with his restauranting and pretty boy attitude. His acquisition of Teahen was a joke and his trade of Hudson for a similar type pitcher was equally dumb. As far as Ozzie, he is an egomaniac as well. But at least he was a far better player than Kenny. Give Ozzie another GM to work with. Jerry's silence, however, makes me think he will back Kenny on this one. That's dumb. It's Ozzie over Kenny in this battle. It is sad when former players come back to manage the team that made them famous. Because managers are hired to be fired and when Ozzie gets canned there will be hard feelings and he'll probably never be a Sox again. Hal McRae was a great great Royal; now he never comes back after getting canned as manager. To a lesser extent, Wathan was a very good Royal and though he works for the team now, there were hard feelings when he got canned. It's why Frank White can't ever be manager.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Sep 23, 2010 -> 12:20 AM) Even when the Sox win, Kotsay and Teahan screw us over. Worse chance at a higher pick thanks to them. A higher pick means nothing. There are too many variables in the baseball draft to think a spot or two matter. I'd think you would say Teahen "screwed us over" by maybe impressing somebody to not get rid of him this winter. Hopefully Kotsay simply won't be invited back. Thanks for the victory today, though, Mark and Mark. I'll take it. This team won't lose 13 in a row and tie for the all time record White sox losing streak.