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Twins have good fans. They draw 30000 or more all summer and like to watch average to poor baseball.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 20, 2013 -> 07:08 PM) Again, they are an overmatched team. It's one of the worst teams in the majors and has one of the worst farm systems in the majors. I think you're overestimating how long it takes top college players selected in the draft to make it to the majors these days. If the Sox drafted someone like Rodon next year, I don't see him lasting longer than a full year in the minors. You make good points. I guess I don't express myself well enough. I just hate the fact with many the season reaches a point, this year in June, where the answer to everything is like, 'This is good. We are in the running for the No. 1 draft pick if we keep this up.' It's like it's an easy way to write off the season and just wait for Bears camp to open. Deep down I'd prefer the Sox hiring Frank Thomas as hitting coach (like KC did with Brett), win 11 of 12 and not be the joke of the AL Central.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 20, 2013 -> 06:57 PM) I sure would have liked to have the chance to take Appel, Gray or Bryant this year compared to Tim Anderson. I have high hopes for Anderson, but the top 3 in the draft had unreal talent. I know, but I'm just saying some of us understand all the reasons people want the Sox to lose, lose, lose. It's like guys like Steve have to educate us on why we are morons for not desiring another loss. Some of us don't care about the draft and would prefer living in the present and not having a clownish team. It takes too long for draftees to make it to the bigs, hence I don't care. I'd rather win games and watch games and not have to puke at an overmatched team.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 20, 2013 -> 03:32 PM) What if I told you that the White Sox losing is better than the White Sox winning? We're 4 behind the Astros for worst record in the league. To people who repeat the same thing over and over about the Sox losing being the way to go and how we should be happy about it. ... a.) Yes we understand the worst record you have, the greater chances are of getting an impact player in the draft. b.) Some of us frankly don't care about the draft as long as baseball has a system in which it takes a long time usually for draftees to make it to the bigs, unlike basketball and football. In other words, please let us root for the Sox to win if we like to live in the present and win games. You may think we're stupid, but some of us don't give a flying f*** about the draft compared to winning baseball games and not being an embarrassment of a team on a daily basis.

Best of 3 series with 2 at home? Cmon. Boston isn't a GREAT team. We already had our one slipup at home. Folks, if Hawks can't win it now, I hate to say, we don't deserve the Cup. Great position to be in. That said, will all of Boston's shots be at Crawford's glove? Is this a problem or did he just have one bad game?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 20, 2013 -> 04:29 AM) We should be worried for Chris Sale's psyche. 5-6 record now. 2 more errors committed (Gillaspie with his 4th, Gold Glove Beckham with his 4th already), giving the White Sox 49 in 69 games, on pace for 117 for the full season. Third (just barely behind HOU) in errors per game, trailing the Angels, who are in 1st...but worst in overall fielding percentage. Have to be worst in the passed balls category as well. Flowers had yet another ball he should have blocked that he applied the "lazy backhand" move to. What's wrong with our scouts?? Buddy Bell? Is he still around? How can our scouts think Tyler Flowers is a major league regular and how can anybody approve acquiring Keppinger for more than a one-year deal? We need better assessment of talent before the firesale begins.

At least somebody make some money off this team. We are not gonna win one game in KC this weekend. Bet it heavily.

It's hard to contribute to a game thread except to muse, "We stink." My god the Sox suck this year.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 09:51 PM) Well, because no one here has any f'in' clue what Hahn's plan is. I am sure his plan was to let the season play out, hopefully come July the SOX are in a position to add a piece here or there and be a contender through September. Clearly that is not going to happen unless the SOX roll of 25 of 30 again, which is nearly impossible. I doubt the SOX trade much pitching. I like Reed alot, but as others have noted, if someone wants to pay a king's ransom for him, it is hard to ignore. Relievers are relievers, and while he looks primed to be a good one for awhile, they are somewhat replaceable. If someone wants to send you a player who can be plugged into the everyday lineup and produce for years to come, it is hard to ignore. We will all find out soon enough what Hahn's plan is. I think the most likely scenario is that the players who have contracts expiring at the end of this year will be moved (sans Paulie, for a multitude of reasons, one being no one will want him at this point), and the others will stay. Hahn will try to land a fish or two in the FA market (give me Morales and/or McCann or Granderson) and try again in 2014. One player who is not close to free agency that I could see moved is De Aza. I think his lazy defensive play is starting to wear a little thin with the organization, and if the SOX can get a team to give up a decent piece, he will be moved. Problem is that no one is really ready to take over the CF slot for 2014, but heck, let Thompson, Walker and Mitchell battle it out, even though none are ready. Let Danks get the abs for the rest of 2013 if De Aza is moved. Granderson could be an option in CF, but his days in CF are numbered and he doesn't exactly fit the type of player the SOX need (high OBP, high average), but he is decent buy low candidate. Well, glad to hear you don't think the Sox will be trading much pitching.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 08:04 PM) So, trade those three for a guy you compare to Teahen, and a guy who is coming off Tommy John, and some magical "good" minor leaguer. Arent you the one always b****ing when we trade with KC? I guess I meant he might be available now since he's looking like a bust like Teahen, a change of scenery guy. They actually could use Rios/and or Viciedo so I saw them as a trade partner.They also could use Beckham.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 03:56 PM) I really want to be surprised by the results, but I simply can't. 5 out of 8 want Ventura gone, which to me is sad. He showed incredible potential last year, and I'm sure he wanted to add to the team. Instead, they lost Liriano, Myers, Youkilis, and Pierzynski, and added Jeff Keppinger and Matt Lindstrom. There's a feeling of dejection there for him too. I say you keep him for a couple more years, you unload and reload a bit, and give him one more shot. As bad as it looks now, this team really isn't that far away from being competitive. I voted no but would not be upset if he came back. He probably is a good choice to manage the team through the upcoming lean years. His personality I would think would be good for young players.

QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 06:42 PM) Depending on what Hahn is expecting of the '14 season, I would actually expect him to deal Reed this winter. Don't the White Sox need a plan before they start dealing pitching? Or are we planning on a last place stay of 5-10 years? Seriously. We have good pitching. Do we trade it all and become a 50-win team for a long time to come? What is the plan?I've yet to see anybody on here talk about what Hahn's plan will be. We're just talking about trading all facets of the team for I presume minor leaguers.

How bout Rios, Viciedo and Keppinger to the Royals for Danny Duffy and 2 of their top minor league prospects or for Duffy and Moustakas (who looks like Teahen at this point) and one minor leaguer who is good.

I doubt it. When you have a fire sale, by definition it pretty much means you are getting rid of all your "name players" for prospects. And you immediately become teams like the current Astros, the Pittsburgh Pirates and Royals of the past 20 years (not counting this year). In a firesale you are acquiring young prospects who you pray work out. But as far as the present, you start losing even more games than before the firesale generally. The Miami Marlins are a good example of a firesale and what happens.

Yay. A win over the Stros finally. Good pitching again. Really too bad our hitting sucks so bad. We coulda been a contender with this pitching staff.

Pop up by Viciedo. Any Soxtalkers still huge on his future? I'm kind of down on him, fully aware he's the hero of tonight's game. Just wondered if anybody is all ga-ga over Viciedo like I was two years ago.

Given a choice, I'd rather be in the pennant race in September and choke like we did last year the last 2.5 weeks rather than be out of it this early in the season. This is really suckage at its lowest to not be in the race.

Hawk said that ball was hit "sharply" by Paulie. I don't know about that. I'm nitpicking, but Paulie hit a little routine tapper to second.

Hawks stunk tonight. Was really hoping we coulda kept home ice advantage and won the series that way. Game Two was such a big loss. Game Four is everything. I don't think Hawks can come back from 3-1 a second time against another good team.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jun 17, 2013 -> 04:34 PM) Ventura is falling on his sword taking this team through its rebuild. No reason to run him out of town for the mess of a roster that the Sox are throwing out there. The results of KW's handling of the farm system are coming to roost now and there will be a little bit of a dip as the Sox burn off their overpriced contracts and produce quality players from the farm system. Hahn is doing a great job of adding talent into the farm system, the development of that talent is obviously a big question mark. You could tell in free agency this year that this was the direction the team was heading, Keppinger was nice player last year but is really more of a utility guy that will not block any prospects. Hahn really needs some players to start performing to their norms so that he can make some moves, otherwise there isn't much sense in making a deal. I would like to see him talk to San Diego about Amarista and Blanks for some pitching, two guys who dont have a starting role and could play a role for the Sox. Excellent post. Really makes sense.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 17, 2013 -> 08:19 PM) Man, how soon we forget Mark Kotsay and his 85% groundout-to-2B rate. Kotsay was horrible, as well. Sox have had a lot of bad baseball players. I personally feel Dunn is one of my least favorite ever. I agree with whoemever posted that the Sox better get somebody good for Crain and guys they deal, because that's when season tix do not get renewed. When the Sox dump good salaried players for nothing in return. There's no reason to trade Crain for some hack who will never make the big leagues. Ditto Rios. Get something for them, not just Lillibridge/Keppinger types of stiffs.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 17, 2013 -> 06:40 PM) The idea is that nobody is going to give you anything for Dunn. Given the other moves we're going to make, plus the imminent losses of PK, Floyd, Thornton, Crain to free agency, we really don't even stand to gain much by saving the money if someone DID take him for nothing. In this case, you keep him in your lineup. Home runs are fun and bring fans to the ballpark and if you're not contending NEXT year and he's still looking like a 40 HR hitter, someone probably will give you something significant for him because he won't cost so much $ in the final year of his contract. In the worst case, you're paying him money that we were unlikely to spend anyway so us as fans aren't hurt by it anyway. Home runs are fun, definitely, but I think Dunn is almost an exception to that rule. He's been so lousy that just seeing him stride to the plate is buzzkill. Am I in the minority on this? I just think Dunn is about the worst player in White Sox history and I hate seeing him walk to the plate. If there are any Dunn fans out there, I stand corrected.

QUOTE (onedude @ Jun 17, 2013 -> 06:33 PM) With the exception of the game my little bro got tickets to next weekend, I'm not interested in watching this team at all. I have the same mentality. It wouldn't be so bad if we expected a horrible year...but there was so much to be optimistic about in spring training. I have to admit I also hate watching them. I've been a Sox fan forever and I know bad baseball is better than no baseball, but I pretty much can't take our anemic offense. I guess it's because it has been the same for so long. The difference is this year we can't even hit enough home runs to win home games. I have no desire to turn on my mlb.com and watch the Sox fail to hit and lose so many close games. It all started with that Cub series. The team just sucked so badly. It's hard to watch.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 17, 2013 -> 01:51 PM) Greg, who's having the better year: Paul Konerko or Adam Dunn? Just wondering..... I dunno. Even tho Dunn has 18 bombs, I personally think he's been lousy. Paulie is finished, I think everybody agrees with that. But I would not "stick it out" with Dunn.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 16, 2013 -> 07:41 PM) My plan as Hahn is to get this team back on its feet again ASAP. No extended rebuilds. We'll assume that not much is different around mid-July, which is when we'll be dealing. Step 1. Crain: He's a must-trade. I think you could really steal from someone who wants Crain, but even if you don't love your offers, you have to pull the trigger on something. Step 2. Peavy: Try to see the market. You should be able to get a lot for him, and this is a case where I'd be willing to wait until the offseason to move him if he needs to prove he is healthy or whatever else. He is the most replaceable star we have, in that our pitching depth is pretty damn good and we have a good track record of developing starting arms. Step 3. Rios: Similar story to Peavy, but even in the offseason I would demand a king's ransom. He could be on this team until 2015 if we want him at about market value and if you want to rebuild quickly, this is an option. However, if you can pry away a Mike Olt type of player then you do that and be okay with the fact you will lose production in the short term. No A-ball prospects of any pedigree for Rios. Rios can still be a part of your next winner and you make the point clear to trading partners. You can always trade him next year, because again he is not blocking any prospects. Step 4. De Aza. See about his value. He's a good player in a premium position and you might be able to get something nice for him. We just have to accept that we don't have a good way to replace him and if you want to compete in the near term you will probably have to buy a centerfielder. Again, I wouldn't be forcing the issue to trade him but if you can get a good player at any level I would probably go ahead and do it. Step 5. Alexei. This is a tough one. He isn't the same player he once was and his contract is long but not fabulously expensive. With that said, a team in need of an SS will probably pay something nice for him. In this case, you're making Gordon your short term SS. Kep is your 2B and you hope Carlos Sanchez pans out in the next 12-18 months. If you go into the offseason and want to add parts to make a competitive team, you may end up frustrated that you don't have a half-ass decent SS. Part of the deal, though. Offseason plans: you give PK the finish to what is likely to be a "meh" season, pat him on the ass, let him walk. He probably retires, I would guess. You stick it out with Dunn. You're not going to get anything for him and after dumping some mixture of Peavy/Rios/Crain/PK/Floyd, you really don't even need to save more money. Dunn may very well hit 40 bombs again and is just the type of guy that can add a little excitement to a team that may be in a transition year. In the final year of his contract, if he still looks like a 40 bomb guy, he may actually become quite valuable in trade. He isn't blocking any prospects at this point, either. Bring in one major FA piece. You have some choices and you'll try to get one that the market doesn't overvalue. My primary target would probably be Kendry Morales to give you a middle-of-the-order bat for the next 3-4 years, but it is important not to overpay. Brian McCann, Jacoby Ellsbury, Curtis Granderson, Nate McLouth, James Loney, and several others will be worth looking at as well. You don't have to get a top-top guy, but bring in a veteran that can fathomably be on your next playoff team. If you get good value, get another one. It's fine to accidentally win. Tyler Flowers will either be good enough to be your starting C or you hand the keys to Phegley. Tank gets another year, but his position is negotiable depending on your other moves. No need to look at adding pitchers. You can bring in a Matt Lindstrom-type, because again sucking isn't fun so it isn't a problem to spend a million or two on a guy that will keep you from losing some games. In the very worst case, these guys get valuable at the deadline. You should be in a position where a couple things can go right and you win and at worst you should be another productive offseason away from winning. Jake, why in the hell should you stick it out with Dunn? I'd trade him so fast if anybody would take him. I'd get Tank out of here with his .267 OBP. Sick of guys who swing at everything, thus are easy outs.