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We're losing again?? It's the curse of those who follow Ozzie with the Marlins. As the Marlins go (in the tank) ... so do the White Sox. WHY CANT WE BEAT NL TEAMS and WIN AT HOME???

If I come back this summer, what are the odds of somebody on here selling me two to four tix for a game or two but they must be good seats. Is my best bet club level? Is it nirvana up in the middle level?

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 09:39 PM) It would be nice to break up the Rios/AJ/Viciedo/Alexei part of the lineup with someone that can draw a walk. Only 43 combined walk for those 4 guys this season. That is huge that most of our guys refuse to walk. Shows again that hitting coaches don't matter. They didn't walk for Walk, either.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 08:01 PM) How many games have you attended in the last 5 years? Several major and minor league - royals and tbones. QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 09:15 PM) Should have put the stadium on the river just south of Chinatown and created a destination with outfield views of the skyline, a park along the river, and an abundance of dining/nightlife/daylife. Could have had a palace, instead we got a mall, with advertisements blocking views of housing projects - we'll get another chance, maybe, in another 25 years or so. We blew it. I have a friend from Bridgeport/Armo(u?)r Square whose dad was a big-wig in Chicago finance. My buddy (who's a bit of a racist) told me that the stadium was an anchor to the neighborhood, and not-so-subtley hinted that it helped divide the neighborhoods. My response was: "for 81 days a year, and besides, isn't that what the Dan Ryan Expressway is for?" The fact that thousands of Tigers and BoSox fans (and hundreds of thousands of other tourists) fill Wrigley and the Cubs' coffers annually makes an actual rebuild viable economically, and Theo's job much, much easier than KW's. Great post. I heard some fan call a talk show the other day and said he'd been to 10 parks last year and they asked him to quickly rate them all and the Cell was last. He said 'the park in chicago' when he got to the Cell.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 09:08 PM) Kevin is under contract for next year for 13 million I believe Good. No way in hell Sox will pay the club option on that. He's a rental, so give them Crain and be done with it.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 07:31 AM) Like Jenks? I smile fondly of memories of him from 05-07, his first three years with the Sox. '08 was ok. '09 and '10 were terrible. Sox gave him a shot and he capitalized. I thought he'd be the White Sox closer for years, but then he just fell apart. He was Sox closer for years. How many years do you think Reed will be the Sox closer? These guys have short lives on the mound. Look at Soria. You break down as a closer.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 02:56 PM) Greg, first let me point out your Ozzie love doesn't bother me like it bothers others. I think its misguided, but I'm sure a lot of things I support, you would not particularly have a high opinion. Snooki and the Kardashians make millions from TV shows. It has nothing to do with respect, just the dumbing down of the country. Fox doesn't bring Ozzie on for intelligent baseball discussion. You also stated last year Ozzie was going to Miami to win championships. His players are arguing with him on the field, he made comments about Castro that went over in his new community like JR announcing there would be no more beer sales at USCF and concession stands were going all vegan would go over with White Sox fans. He brags about getting drunk after every game. An article comes out where his coaches do all the work, he sits in his office an plays games on his IPad. After a loss this week he said he's going to have 7 beers and a take a sleeping pill. The team is looking like the past few editions of the White Sox. Its not going as planned in Miami. We know it isn't going to end well, but its starting to appear its probably going to end even uglier than imagined. It will also probably end much sooner than imagined. Ozzie isn't a miracle worker. After recent articles, one may have a hard time saying worker and Ozzie Guillen in the same sentence. I don't know if it was Oney or whatever it was, but Ozzie has lost his way. He's about Ozzie. That doesn't work long term. Good post. Ozzie can't shut up. The Chicago media understood him. If the Florida media doesn't get it or thinks he's an ozzball, Loria may have to get rid of him. Is Loria a billionaire? Does Oz's contract matter to him or could he discard him quickly? QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 07:55 PM) We're just an Oney tweet away from this getting really fun, though I'd be willing to bet that Loria DID discuss such matters with Oz before the hire. Considering the money Loria spent in the offseason, Ozzie's not going to have a honeymoon there, and any chance of that was gone with the Castro comments. It will be fun seeing Ozzie as a third base coach in a few years, if he has a job in baseball at all. Loria is crazy. He had a pep talk with the team Thursday and bragged with the media about it, of course, the Marlins are 0-3 since then, giving up six in the ninth today.

It's hard to do a Sox list cause a lot of the old timers are in the Hall of Fame and it's hard to vote for people I never saw play.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 07:16 PM) Unless we are getting back a legit prospect, that would be awful. If we could dump Crain on them for Youk that would be great. Crain is just another body that takes the mound once in a while. Even if Youk sucks at least we wouldn't have given anything up.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 07:14 PM) 23k last night for a Friday night game against the Brewers with perfect weather is hard to believe. That's easily 30k in recent years. The product is not worth the cost of the entire experience. That's my opinion. Too easy to attend a minor league game if you need a ballpark fix (sights, sounds of a ballpark and a 1 dollar hot dog instead of a five buck dog).

Sox either win two straight or lose yet another series at home. Ah, it's fun to be a contender.

Not trying to flame or bait, merely a serious question and I'll provide my answer as well. Q - When you think of Bobby Jenks' White Sox days do you smile approvingly or frown? Do you think of Jenks fondly or think ill of him? A - I smile approvingly and think he had a helluva Sox career considering how most relievers nowadays implode after a few years (who are not named Rivera).

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 22, 2012 -> 03:56 AM) Greg, I bet you didn't know that the Marlins run differential this year is negative 60. The Cubs, a team that you were furious that the Sox were unable to win more than one game against this week, has a run differential this year of negative 56. The Marlins have the 3rd worst run differential in all of baseball. That's inexcusable with that talent. I could have sworn last winter, everybody said the Marlins would suck and it wasn't because of Ozzie. They were telling me the Marlins team wasn't division title worthy. QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 22, 2012 -> 06:53 AM) Ozzie Guillen is barely a top 5 manager in the NL East. He's lucky he's not coaching in the NL Central this year because there's no way he'd be a top 5 manager there. To sum up: -Says he does nothing at his job -Makes assistant coaches do all the work -Win or lose, goes back to the hotel/house and gets plastered -Loves Huge Chavez and Fidel Castro EASILY a top 5 manager. Seriously, I feel he's top five in all of baseball. Whom do you rank ahead of him?? I'm saying with his track RECORD (WL record, etc) who objectively speaking beats out Ozzie? QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Jun 22, 2012 -> 06:54 AM) As much as we find the fact that you crush on Guillen so much amusing or sad depending on the day. Come on, top 5. The only place he is top 5 is in your secret meetings of the Guillen society broadcast fromn your basement where you facetime chat with Cowley and Oney. I am sure to the three of you Guillen is a warrior philosopher poet who was resurrected from the dead to save mankind from traditional baseball. Cowley has been effectively silenced. I guess he wants the huge paycheck to continue. He's been stifled by management. QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jun 22, 2012 -> 01:34 PM) Greg will blame this on the players not executing. Their good May was entirely attributable to Guillen. We stink the last month too, and nobody (including me) is blaming Robin.

It says Youk has lower back tightness? Par for da course.

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 01:55 AM) Buster Olney just tweeted that apparently baseball execs think we are the favorites for Youk. So I guess we'll overpay with our best 2-3 minor leaguers and we'll have to sob as Mitchell or whomever else excel with Boston and Youk hits .220 for us. It's called Murphy's Law, Sox style. QUOTE (Heads22 @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 02:10 AM) FYI, Sandusky guilty on 45 counts. Thank God! I was worried when jury asked to re-hear some testimony. Go to jail, you sicko bum! QUOTE (Soxfest @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 02:15 AM) Crain-wreck Awesome headline. I've never liked Crain; just another hack reliever who angers me the last 3-4 seasons. Add him to the list. QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 02:34 AM) Konerko needs to sit until his wrist is healthy. Absolutely terrible performance by him of late. True dat. He's hurt. SIT HIM. We don't need an unhealthy Paulie out there. QUOTE (Soxfest @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 02:42 AM) Sox are GREAT at 2 things.............Losing 1-0............Losing extra inning games. Hey, we had a walk-off win not so long ago. We get one of those every 2 years it seems. Ha ha. Sox lose at home again to another lousy NL team. Our team is really really s*** right now.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jun 22, 2012 -> 11:10 PM) Demoted. Why can no one get it through their skulls Stewart is a 24 year old who should be starting in AAA to develop pitches. Christ. What's with the Christ? This is a meaningless message board. Relax. As far as Zach, I can get what you wrote through my skull. He's where he belongs right now. AAA. Keep him off a big league mound until he has the ability to get a few big league hitters out.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 04:46 PM) My god. How can you say that about a WS winning manager. Aside from being outspoken, Ozzie Guillen is well respected throughout baseball. Who is on all the TV shows during the postseason? Ozzie Guillen is one of the top five managers in baseball.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 06:33 PM) Cards tie up Detroit 1-1 in the 5th. Super prospect Jacob Turner has allowed 9 baserunners, but only one run so far. I wonder how many people picked up Turner for their fantasy teams today. I did.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 07:20 PM) And on the third day he rose again... NEVER FORGET! Anytime a pitch hits you in the face it is "close" to ending your career. Sox didn't care and let them plunk another Sox, the likeable De Aza. WTF? Team loses 2 of 3 and one of them with Zach Stewart on the mound. In the opener?? Thanks for just serving it up there on a tee for the lousy Cubs to steal momentum.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 12:35 PM) Right on cue, the nice and lazy media playing the meatball contingent like a fiddle. I resent being called a meatball. I happen to think it was the column of the year. Cost of going to games is a major problem now and if the economy doesn't improve, forever. Sox should just sell all tickets to corporations in the offseason and have 30,000 no shows a night. Tell the corps the team will move without the ticket sales. Because TONS of Sox fans can't afford to go to games, and after a while, will get used to the fact they can't go to games, and just enjoy watching the games on TV with cheap beer and snacks at their disposal the rest of their lives. But I'm a meatball?? This is a lifestyle thing and a lot of fans will get used to simply not having a Sox game as an option for family fun anymore. Sell all the tickets to corporations and let them resell them or burn them. QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 01:11 PM) Sox fans are educated; you should give them a little more credit. They won't support a half-assed rebuild, no. But, if the team had a defined direction with a quality farm system to support it, I think you would be surprised at the attendance. Fans want to hope for the future. They will support something if they can envision a better future for the organization. Look at our minor league system now, and show me where the hope is. QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 03:15 PM) I'd love to come up with something new to talk about, but come on. No one questions Kenny or JR? Really? If no one questions them, why the hell are we on like post #200 of this dead horse topic? The entire fanbase knew attendance was going to fall hard this year, yet here we are acting like this is a surprise? Come on. No way in hell fans will go to games to watch prospects lose games at the Cell. I mean lets say we have Mitchell in the outfield and he's hitting .180 after April. Nobody would give a f*** about going to the Cell to watch Mitchell. Ditto Sale if he was 1-5 with a 6.33 ERA after six starts. It's about winning. Sox fans would never support 90-100 loss teams IMO.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 01:59 PM) FWIW, from @Scottmerkin De Aza said that he definitely felt Corpas hit him intentionally to open the eighth. It seemed pretty obvious. De Aza also said he's friends with Corpas so it wasn't anything De Aza did. When asked what he could do in that situation, De Aza smiled and said, "wear it." You had to wear it, DeAza, but your pitchers should have retaliated for you. It's bulls*** to let the Cubs nearly end Paulie's career and hit DeAza. The fact the Sox weren't still so pissed about Paulie to win the series tells me a lot about this team. It's going nowhere. QUOTE (35thstreetswarm @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 02:05 PM) We would have won, and likely swept, the series if we had left our rotation alone. Instead we decided to audition a failed mop-up guy, effectively conceding the first game and giving the hapless Cubs hope and momentum. I understand the need for extra rest, but not during this series, which is so important to the fans. And especially when you're trying to find ways to get fans to the park. And yes, fans do care about beating the Cubs, even if it's in vogue for "serious" fans on both sides of town to try to outdo each other in professing how little they care about the series. Great great post. Pitching Stewart was an insult to every Sox fan alive. ANYBODY BUT ZACH is my motto.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 05:18 AM) There should be no rebuilding with this franchise. We have the resources to always put a competitive product out there like we have now. The trick is not to get all emotional if this product doesn't surge to 100 wins and trade away the future for a short term shot at the title of a weak division. If this year is proving anything, there is no way in hell Sox fans will support a rebuild. This team has to field a team with .500 as its low end with the hope of a division title if things go well. This team will draw embarrassingly low totals of fans (under 10,000 nightly) if the team was a 90-100 loss team for a 2-3-4 year rebuilding span.

QUOTE (Swingandalongonetoleft @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 05:20 AM) It's still frustrating that this year's interleague record is what it is. Even with a sweep of Milwaukee, 8 losses against the NL is going to feel like such a wasted opportunity. I don't think we're gonna sweep Milwaukee; just a hunch.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 04:59 AM) The memories of baseball GMs are very short, my friend. If true, I'd trade him now then. I don't think it'd be a White Flag trade despite his great season. There would be justification that Sox don't believe he can keep it up.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 05:09 AM) Huge effort by Floyd tonight. Sox had more bloop hits tonight than they've had over the last two weeks, and Beckham's homer was a nice finishing touch. I'm happy with Ventura and his decision not to retaliate in the 9th tonight. Still, it was a way for the Cubs to get the last word in. They took 2 of 3 and plunked DeAza. Cubs win; Cubs win.