The Beast

This is true too. There are too many people with anecdotal evidence and sharable memes of misinformation that the vaccine hesitant chose to read and listen to this rather than even consider the statistical evidence. It’s sad.

To any neighborhood vaccine skeptics, anti-vaxxers or people with Greg’s positions (no need to re-explain how your positions are different Greg), this is for you: https://www.thebulwark.com/the-anti-vax-ethos-of-live-and-let-die/

I think people who are vaccine hesitant or find excuses mistake the vaccine for a cure. But they also disregard how there’s still breakthrough infections and use those to drive the narrative not to get it.

Why do you always go back to Joe Rogan, Howard Stern and Bill Maher in your posts? Nobody cares what talking heads think. Focus on this point Greg. The vaccines are not designed to be 100% effective. Breakthrough infections can occur. The idea is that your body gets the instructions it needs to fight off the virus. Maybe the vaccine hesitant need to look at that rather than say, I won’t get the vaccine because “it won’t stop me from getting covid,” “it won’t stop me from spreading covid,” “the long term safety hasn’t been tested,” “there have been injuries and deaths caused by it” and “the drug makers are not liable for the damage or injury caused.” That’s a stupid meme I saw yesterday. It requires some context, but some people are too stubborn or stupid to understand context or nuance.

So does this happen in your area? How does it affect you?

We are not going to stop discussing COVID because the we aren’t able to move past this virus. Just because people are vaccinated doesn’t mean they can’t get the virus. I’d rather combat the virus than say, “oh well, we’re all going to get it anyway.” I’ll take my chances with the vaccine than not having the vaccine and getting the virus. As for the restaurant, it’s all about your perspective. Just like my ID for alcohol, I have no problem showing anything to go somewhere, just like I had no problem providing proof of vaccination to my employer. The masks are fine in schools. All these parents going and bitching to school boards are laughable. My wife’s district had a kid who was home schooled (because it was their choice to rather than go to the public school) show up and b**** about the mask mandate to the board. They want to make a choice and choices have consequences. You mentioned the border so I’m giving you some perspective on why that can’t fully get under control. Look at the legislative history on the policy because the list of reforms are short. A couple of things. Number one, Sturgis Motor Cycle Rally. Number two, local governmental control. Number three, go to a concert locally, who is stopping you? Please provide links to data about the statistics you said are being ignored by the media. The things you are talking about is about local control. The people coming to the country are being processed and many deported. Things are happening. In Illinois you can go to school, you just need to wear a mask or at some colleges, be vaccinated. You have to wear a mask indoors. Big whoop. I don’t feel like my rights are being infringed on. Clearly where the vaccination rates are low there is distrust. And lots of states have no restrictions so I don’t know what you are referring to about restrictions.

Also Greg, you have to understand that every county and every state is different. You can try, but you can’t do a consistent strategy across the board. And while this issue is still an issue that affects all of our lives, we are going to discuss it. If you want to use this example, then fine, but be ready for the biker convention example and the superspreader that was. As for the border, that isn’t an easy solution and is one that evaded several administrations. Plus the congress won’t act to get it done. Look what happened in 2013, the bipartisan bill passed the senate easily and Boehner wouldn’t bring it to the floor so it died in the house. Solutions on immigration are easier said than done.

Data please. Links.

Please provide the statistics you say are being ignored by the media. I don’t want other posters to do it for you, I want you to provide it. Let’s see your data Greg. No anecdotes. DATA! I think many have tried getting the word out to the vaccine hesitant and anti-vaxxers. But they clearly have made their choice and can’t be swayed by anything. It literally takes a death to someone close to them to change their minds.

And they aren’t showing lots of adverse reactions or deaths compared to the amount of vaccines administered IIRC.

Would you prefer white instead?

No, but I did post at the whitesox.com message board before coming here.

Cool thread, thanks for creating it.

In 2008, I was 20 and months away from getting dumped by my high school girlfriend who went to U of I while I went to EIU. I thought I wanted to be a teacher or sports journalist but life had other plans and I ended up in the insurance business after getting a business degree from SAU and doing PR, interning with the St. Louis Rams, regrettably for some shitty startups and an EAP provider in Chicago. In 2021, I am now 33 and married to my wife from Match.com, we have a son who was born on Election Day last year. I got a masters degree and am trying to get promoted or leave within the next six months. Wish I could go back to tell myself to try to get into healthcare when I was 20 but that’s my exit strategy (probably nursing or data analysis for a health care organization) if this next opportunity doesn’t work out. At least we are healthy and have family and friends that makes the working part worth something. Let’s go you flawed White Sox, let’s see what you’ve got!

Insurance companies can do that and I think the testing cost is being implemented by United but not all across the board with companies since it puts an undue burden on employees. It doesn’t really matter if I am a Fauci fan or not. What matters is I believe science changes with new evidence and facts. I think sometimes public figures get ahead of themselves, but I don’t give much thought to the politics people have with Fauci. I want to beat the virus instead of pointing fingers.

I hope it is actually found to be from bats and not a lab so that the conspiracy theorists are wrong again just like Qanon is wrong on everything. And yes, China is an enemy. But there are ways to counteract them by focusing on us at home and internationally with our allies. The submarine deal was a good start. I want to know who those who are vaccine hesitant or anti vaccine trust. Oh, but Fauci paid people to put those bats there! He injected them with the virus from the Wuhan lab! So you support people who won’t get the vaccine but you can’t understand the people who work with these people, like those who are immunocompromised or have family who can’t get vaccinated yet? Is it unfair to mandate that people get vaccinated and if they don’t, get tested? Lastly, vaccines aren’t necessarily meant to be 100% effective. But their efficacy is high enough.

To piggy back off of this, I also would say to someone who is all about individual choices that there are children who do not have a choice in getting the vaccine yet. What are parents supposed to do to protect them? Do we have an obligation as a society to consider other people who can’t get vaccinated? They don’t have to agree but I’d like to know their response.

So if it were out of a Wuhan lab, do they go after Fauci like Paul did for gain of function research? Or do they blame China? Or the Democrats? I’m not sure who anti-vaxxers actually trust, unless it’s someone on social media. I thought that Fox News viewers would have trusted Francis Collins but I haven’t heard much praise for him, just bitching about Fauci. One of my passions in life is politics although I am more about the news, history and policy than I am culture wars, sharing memes to flame the other side on Facebook or ripping others to shreds. So I talk about it a lot, but it’s not like what Maher probably means. Yang’s third party probably isn’t viable. There’s probably several parties, like Biden Democrats, progressive Democrats, moderate republicans and the far right freedom caucus republicans. Then it goes back to my question, “Who do you trust? You have to have trusted someone in your life when it came to decisions. What sources do you trust? How much evidence is enough for you to prove your claims?” I wouldn’t say I’m bothered but I do hope that boosters become available to more people at the end of this year or next. I’m more concerned with the children getting vaccinated. True, but even if China lied, who would people blame? Yep. Two moderate factions fed up with the left and right wings. The Problem Solvers caucus is a good example as are some moderates who voted on infrastructure. Voters should be very upset if the congress doesn’t pass the easy win in the bipartisan infrastructure bill and instead get hung up over reconciliation bills that need to be negotiated down to pass through the senate. It isn’t just progressives but also moderates who have to figure this out, although I would point out to progressives that they need to understand A. The Senate math with Sinema, Manchin and Tester and B. How if they get nothing done and torpedo the legislation, they will lose in competitive districts and find themselves in the minority. In divided government they need to just get something done. Half a loaf of bread is sometimes better than the full loaf.

This isn’t the place for it, but big picture, do we all truly have control over our bodies when it comes to laws around sexuality and reproduction? I know that’s not what you intended but I couldn’t help but think of that. People have freedom, sure, but they also should have an obligation to do things for public health and if they don’t, then they need to live with the results of their actions. Greg, why does it matter where the virus originated? Shouldn’t the focus be more on beating the pandemic rather than poking around the bat versus lab theory? That’ll be investigated and it may never be known. There is now full FDA approval, so I don’t really listen to the EUA arguments. The lockdowns are debatable but still aren’t very relevant to the vaccine discussion. Even if a doctor or health care provider responded to the reactions people had, do you think that would convince them to get the vaccine? It’s near impossible to have calm discussion on anything from vaccines to policy and I’m not sure what is going to fix that. I don’t think it’s going to get fixed since the volume was turned up and now either human beings discuss things over message boards or Facebook or try and talk about things in person, although most people probably avoid doing so in person.

I’m pretty sure she’s wrong about President Biden taking away Florida’s monoclonal antibodies. The administration is redistributing. https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2021/09/16/desantis-opens-new-war-with-biden-over-covid-treatments-1391111 Strangely enough, some I know today said they were disappointed in doctors, who wouldn’t prescribe things to help people recover. I could only think she meant getting ivermectin but I have no idea. Then I saw another Facebook thread railing against the vaccination mandate and would love to ask people if they’d rather take therapeutics than the vaccine and if they would like to do that each time they got the virus, just to see what they said.

Yeah when I referred to looking at multiple perspectives it is mostly trying to understand another person’s perspective or understanding both sides of an issue before having an opinion. Not many people read or consider both sides before making their opinion known or formulating an opinion. That being said, I am in the pro-vaccine camp and tried to understand the vaccine hesitant and their reasons, but some of them just aren’t holding up. For example, the one where the vaccine needed full FDA approval. Some people still said it was rushed and just used an empty reason as an excuse not to get it. People who are strictly anti-vaxxers I will probably never understand, since I don’t understand how their arguments hold up. Just the other day I read how some people are trying to falsify religious exemptions to avoid the vaccine mandate, which I hope HR departments and counsel weed out instead of grant, unless it is legitimate. I’d have to find the story but there were people reaching out to priests out of state for letters to get their religious exemption approved. It doesn’t seem right. Can’t wait to get my son vaccinated, especially since his mother will be on board and we want the chance to protect him more fully. I’m glad we will finally get that chance even under the EUA since we won’t need full approval to persuade us.

Oh okay thanks. He’s been off a lot of this year so I’ve just been thinking of his health.

Hey guys, where is Stone tonight?

That’s not what I am taking about. I’m saying people need to read different sources and consider both perspectives instead of focusing on what is covered and what is not. I couldn’t care less about their agendas.

What it all boils down to is, are people on either end of the political spectrum digging in to the opposite side’s viewpoint? Are they reading more than one source from different outlets and commentators? If people fail to review different sources and listen to alternative viewpoints, that is a problem. But once they do, it’s up to them to decide what is correct. At least then they would have considered someone’s perspective they disagree with. I would consider the lab leak argument but I also don’t really care about the origin and seeing Paul hammer away at Fauci when I want solutions to end the pandemic. I’ll consider research I don’t agree with, but it’s going to take more than one person to convince me that a way aside from vaccines is the right way to go. And it would take some understanding from people who disagree with me (in terms of reviewing multiple sources, how science can evolve, not just reposting memes they believe support their argument, etc) for me to think that they are considering my beliefs for me to consider theirs. This is more about policy and politics than the pandemic but it still is how I approach discussion with the other side, even though it rarely is productive.