LDF

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 19, 2015 -> 08:33 PM) We're definitely the worst team. I think last is ours. only if the sox shut down sale, Q, Jose A and maybe eaton. an arm injury to a pitcher or a blown knee to a any of the other i mention, kiss 2016 away.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 19, 2015 -> 08:30 PM) I said two weeks ago we should shut him down. Absolutely no reason to pitch with the team dead and buried. He's not necessarily the franchise BTW. With all pitchers, one simple injury changes all that kind of talk. with all due respect to every one else, i was and still am on the same page with you. anything now is for awards and post seasons personal best records. screw all that and protect your interest.

QUOTE (venom4789 @ Sep 19, 2015 -> 08:41 PM) So i may not know a lot about pitching coaches but i was always under the impression that coop was one of the best in the games, am i correct, or incorrect. Also with shark and coop rift is it personalities clashing, or is coop telling shark to do things and shark wont. Also i guess could be the other way around maybe coop changed something and now shark is getting lit up so he blames him, ref to coop, it is a perception that he is the best, however if you type in the best mlb pitching coaches and coop will be in the top 3-4 depending on the article . here is fan graph breakdown. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/you-and-you...tching-coaches/ ref coop and shark. unless someone in the "in's" have some inside knowledge, i believe there hasn't been anything rumored or talked about. maybe this off season.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 19, 2015 -> 05:15 PM) It's entirely possible we have a 2nd one sitting in our rotation right now. Hell, with some work we might have drafted another one last year too. if.... you know what i think on the big if. there is too much of an unknown with if. the one in the rotation, that is several if on his command and development. the one we drafted last yr, if he can still develop as a starter. i want to go with the known element. sale is a known #1 sp. sorry for my little rant.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 19, 2015 -> 06:08 PM) I'm not opposed to the idea any longer either, but I also don't think that it's possible that any team is going to give up what it would actually take to get him with this many years left on his contract. Therefore I would listen, but I think it's more likely that if we move him, it would be ~the end of the 2017 season when he's got about 2 years left, possibly middle of the 2018 season, assuming that the White Sox don't figure out a way to salvage things before then. If the White Sox can somehow salvage this mess before then, holding Chris Sale at the top of a strong rotation in 2017-2019 is not a bad thing. you got a great point. let me add on a rhetorical question. how many times does a team gets lucky and get a true #1 type of a sp..... while it is done, i don't or can't see the team trading sale away.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 19, 2015 -> 01:27 PM) All right, Saturday morning, have work to do later but can do this now. The good news for me is, I expect the White Sox front office to do the exact opposite of this, so I'll never have to be evaluated on whether or not this plan would work. Most important thing we must do this offseason: get the front office's heads out of their collective you know wheres and end the "denial" that is permeating this organization. Your team is this bad. Your team is well under .500 and deserves to be. This is not bad luck. If you played this season again, you would not suddenly have things go better. If you replayed this season, some things would possibly go better, Samardzija can't possibly be this bad again, but some things would be likely to go worse - the unbelievably ridiculous health that we saw this year (0 starters on the disabled list at any time) is going to be almost impossible to repeat. Your team played the way it was capable of, maybe even better. Your organization is still weak. You have little depth, you have even less big league experience for the depth you do have, and you have way too many holes to fill for that little depth to make you competitive next year. So let's act like it. If the roster is this weak, the right response is patience. Some guys will work their way into big leaguers if given the shot, other guys will work their way out of the league. The only way to tell which marginal guys can become long-term options is to play them and find out. If you're playing a number of marginal guys to see what they can do, then it also makes no sense to go for "1 year/expensive/soon to be FA" options. Evidence for that is 2015. Furthermore, even if they're very talented, if you're relying on rookies or young kids in important spots, many of them are likely to struggle their first year. That should be expected. If you say "we're going all in this year and we're going to make the playoffs on the back of Avi Garcia, Erik Johnson, and Tim Anderson", and those guys aren't ready to carry your team, you will fail. Finally, if you try to fill multiple holes on the FA market, you should expect multiple busts, especially if you are not competing for the top-level guys. Mid-level, high priced free agents hit the market because their teams think there are better ways to spend their money. They know these guys and they're willing to let them walk. That is a message right there. Do not do the "KW Special" that we've tried the last 10 years of signing mid-level free agents to big time money. It has not worked at all for us. Scott Linebrink, Adam Dunn, Jeff Keppinger, Melky Cabrera, Adam LaRoche, Zach Duke, the failures on the FA market are not happening by accident, this is a systematic mistake and if we keep trying it, the mistake is likely to repeat again. The only one who has performed anywhere near his contract is Robertson. These high-priced, mid-level free agents are unusually likely to bust. They may not all bust, you may get some that work out, but if you're trying to build a roster out of them you will fail. So take those philosophies and turn them into a 2016 format. We are not a competitive roster in 2016. We'd need a huge amount to go right in 2016 to be competitive. It could happen but it is extremely unlikely and we need to act like it. 1. Decline Alexei Ramirez's option. Tyler Saladino is your starting 2016 SS. He may very well fail badly at this job but if he does then late in the season Tim Anderson takes the job from him. If his defense carries over from 3b, his bat just has to be "adequate" for him to be a really valuable player. If his bat could be adequate, he could turn into a valuable enough piece that maybe we think of moving Anderson elsewhere, where defense isn't quite as important (3b?) or we look at Saladino as a valuable trade chip late in the season. If his bat is inadequate, at least he'll hopefully catch the ball a few times and get experience enough to count on him as a utility player. If Anderson hits well enough and plays solid D in the first half at Charlotte, he comes up and takes that job at the deadline unless Saladino genuinely earns it. Tim Anderson should not reach the big leagues before July under any circumstance other than "major injuries in the big leagues leaving no choice" That position is first on the list because the option we have there is overpaid & a key part of the problem. Picking up his option is the top "we're going to compete again this year darnit!" move. It's the top signal of this team remaining in denial about 2015. That's why I expect them to do the exact opposite. 2. Once Alexei is gone, you have more money to play with. The first place to gamble it is on offering Samardzija the QO. With Alexei's money cleared you can gamble on that to try to get the draft pick, if he comes back it genuinely screws with your rotation, but with Alexei out of the way that doesn't ruin your ability to make other moves. 3. Starting rotation: listen on offers for Quintana and others but it darn well better be a franchise-changing offer. If you don't get that, there is zero hurry to move him or Sale. Sale is signed for 4 more seasons, Quintana for 5. If you would laugh at a trade proposal if it were offered for Sale, then it's just about as bad if offered for Quintana. My ideal starting rotation next year: Sale, Q, Rodon, Johnson, Danks. Rodon needs to work to get up to 200 innings, if he gets in that range and works on the change then in 2017 we're talking a formidable top 3. EJ I'm still unsure about, but he 100% needs to pitch in the big leagues next year. I expect him to struggle some because he's still basically a rookie, but if he pitches through those struggles successfully in 2016 then he's a strong piece in a great rotation in 2017. Danks is finally in his last year and he is gradually improving. If he takes a step back early next season, Fulmer and Montas could be called up midseason to replace him. If he takes another small step forwards in the first half, he becomes tradeable at the deadline. If Danks can make himself a trade candidate, move him. Veteran LH starter at the end of his contract ought to return something if he's pitching well. If Danks is moved, that clears a spot for Montas, Fulmer, Beck, or whoever earns a callup in the first half. Getting another kid 2 months in the big leagues is going to be important if we want to compete in 2017 - that experience won't make them a veteran but it will make them better in 2017. Outfield: listen on trade offers but your 2016 outfield is Melky, Eaton, Garcia, and Trayce. Eaton's defense was down in 2015 but he should continue to play CF until we're sure that's a long-term trend and we verify he can't play there any more. Only way to know that is to play him there. Melky is too expensive to bench or discard or replace, he has to play. If he's this bad then eventually he'll wind up benched, but that won't happen next year. Garcia could be replaceable but even I think he has talent enough to improve and I'll buy the "his first full season" a bit. Play him as a starter again next year and see if there is a lightswitch that turns on. If you're playing Garcia next year, you're admitting right away you don't think you have a competitive roster. Trayce should regularly replace Eaton and Melky particularly against LH pitching. Work him in and get him regular PAs to see what he does with them, but be selective. Don't throw him out there every day unless he forces you to. 2b: Micah and Sanchez both make the roster out of ST. Play them both. See who earns the spot. I wouldn't count on either of them if I were saying "This team will compete in 2016" but since I'm not saying that I would support playing the kids. Both of them have earned shots in the show and neither of them has earned the role of starter. Hopefully one of them will. C: Flowers is still weak there and he'll be a 2nd year arb player next year. Without a better option we need to offer arbitration there, also will keep Sale happy, but we need to be hunting for a long-term option there. I don't know where we'll find that, that's the downside of the denial at this year's trade deadline and last offseason, we have holes like that. We could put up with Flowers there on a competitive team if we were strong elsewhere, but we're not and he'll be too expensive to offer arbitration in 2017 unless his bat improves a lot. Let Soto walk. Find a backup catcher, not sure if that's Brantley or not. Don't pay for anyone expensive here...yet. Look for smart deals the whole year, if you can flip a reliever or a Saladino or a Danks for a catching candidate at the deadline that would be spectacular. 3b: a mess. We have Olt under team control and I have no problem playing him but I also have little confidence in him until he proves me wrong. We have nothing in the minors that can take this spot in the near future. Do not spend big money on this spot, but it seems wise to spend some. The position is also spectacularly bad on the FA market and I'm not trading a big piece for someone like Frazier who is a soon-to-be FA. The Rockies are unlikely to move Arenado even though a Q/A deal might make general sense for both - would listen but won't obsess if the Rockies aren't up for it. Here we need a stopgap. Look at Olt and see if he can find the talent that made him a top prospect a few years ago. Also look at someone like either David Freese or Maicer Izturis (they're literally about the best FA options available) to spell them. If you bring in Freese and he has a bad first half or gets injured, no big deal, if he has a good first half you should look to move him at the deadline. If his FA value turns out to be a bargain (which is still unlikely on this market) perhaps you look at someone like Ian Desmond as a 2-year deal and consider moving him over to see if he can recover, but that's only if he's cheap and I don't buy that he will be. Bullpen: still pretty weak and unreliable. Duke is basically unmovable but has to pitch since money invested. Only real piece we lose is Albers, shame we didn't move him to a contender but again what can you do. With Jones back, bullpen can at least cover the 7-8-9 innings. Manager really likes being able to have someone to take the blame for blowing games other than him, so even if Robertson is overpaid, fine we'll call that a luxury to keep the manager happy and won't move him unless we're blown away by a really good offer. Offer arbitration to Jones. I'm iffy on offering arbitration to Jennings, would depend on what the actual coaching staff thinks of him. If he's gone, then look for a similar cheap lefty pickup. Guys like Petricka, Webb, Putnam could very well be more reliable next year. Continue looking for castoff options & see what the minor leagues may add within a year. DH spot: We're not cutting LaRoche. He's got to play. Maybe he can have another good first half and make himself moveable for a tiny bit of salary savings at the deadline. Make use of TT in your lineup when there's a lefty on the mound, LaRoche should only face lefty starters if Abreu is hurt and he has to play 1b that day. Maybe you also put Sanchez or Olt at DH against some lefty starters to get them more PAs. Clear that contract out and we'll see what happens as the year goes on. This team is not competitive in 2016 and even several big FA moves won't get us there. Selling off Anderson or Montas right now for short-term options is as bad of an idea as the Samardzija trade was last year. Play out the season and hopefully we can go from having "7 holes in our lineup" and "a rotation with several inexperienced guys" to "3-4 holes in our lineup" and "a rotation with 1 inexperienced guy behind 4 strong ones" for 2017. A smart trade or two will help, but NOTHING that is expensive or nearing FA should be even considered as a return for anything. The Free Agent and trade markets will still exist after 2016, but you can't rebuild an entire roster that way unless someone does something stupid and helps you out. If some things go right then maybe you undo the damage you did in-between the 2014 and 2015 seasons. If somehow everything went right then you could even celebrate and be competitive, but if you weren't, at least you haven't damaged your ability to compete in 2017. /Rant excellent rant. very comprehensive in looking at things at the season end. rel nice.

QUOTE (coco1997 @ Sep 19, 2015 -> 04:26 PM) I understand that. However, I believe Sale is our best means to totally revitalize our lineup for the foreseeable future. The problem is, if you screw up a Sale trade, you set this franchise back many years. while that idea is has some merits, it really doesn't matter. it will be the FO who will decide. however for this discussion, i disagree on trading sale. finding the pieces.... that will come down from the sox owners on what they want the salary cap to be. for me, some hard trades of key prospects will be involve, which i hate. so many ways to fix this problem.

QUOTE (EvilJester99 @ Sep 19, 2015 -> 08:49 AM) Oh please as if teams haven't backed players who have done bad stuff like this before. Kobe, Roethlisberger as recent examples. It doesn't hurt the Hawks one bit.. crowds will be sold out every night. different time, different era. things have change since them, the way it is treated and handle are again change. the hawks have not had this kind of incident on the team, either way, what a hit, and if he if he is guilty>>>>>

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 19, 2015 -> 01:21 PM) They have zero chance at last place in all of baseball, the White Sox are about 14 1/2 games ahead of the Phillies right now. We're 6 games ahead of the Athletics for worst in the AL, so we have very little chance of falling that far back either. We're 1 game ahead of the Tigers for last in the Central divison. pretty much what i thought. but overall in the idea of how they do, well, and i hate to say this, it will be what it is.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 19, 2015 -> 12:52 PM) Lots of people have different estimates. The Qualifying offer is the average of the top 125 salaries across all of baseball, however, many players have things like performance bonuses that will impact the final calculated number. Last year's QO was $15.3 million and it has been going up by about $1 million per year, but the exact amount it goes up depends on the contracts signed the previous offseason. many thanks. great update on the info you provided.

QUOTE (AlSoxfan @ Sep 19, 2015 -> 09:30 AM) "His underachieving season surely won’t help him in the free agent market. His return to the South Side? Don’t count on it according to Bruce Levine. Chicago must determine whether to make a qualifying offer to him after the World Series ends. A qualifying offer means you offer your own free agent a $17.1-million one-year contract. If the player accepts, he gets a one-year contract. If he declines, the team gets a pick after the first round of the June amateur draft in June 2016. The smart money has Samardzija getting a multi-year deal of significant money, despite having a down season. His return to the White Sox beyond 2015 seems highly unlikely." I'm not sure where he got the $17.1 mil from all this will be based on posters opinions, many has made great discussion and point on their opinions. as i said many days ago, this is a win-win situation for the sox. shark will really need to pitch the lights out, if he accept the QO to redeem himself. the sox will reap these positive results, the sox can trade him and or keep him and he can be the bridge for fulmer. now here is another opinion, this yr performance, with ref to the overall stats, this yr is not the real shark. but now, many will disagree, but no one is going to chg my opinion and the sox FO will have their opinions as well.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Sep 13, 2015 -> 10:40 PM) I think the Sox have a good chance at last place. with the idea of last place, in what, division, league or the whole of baseball.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Sep 19, 2015 -> 09:04 AM) I feel like if you go into a draft saying hey if he have picks 1 through 4 then we're taking a pitcher and 5 through 15 a bat, you're really going to hand cuff yourself. Always take the BPA no matter what, stay true to your board. i am saying, and it is prob the way i worded it. for me the 1-4 pick, the bpa in my book will be a sp. now 5-15 i have a feeling, a really good feeling that this kid from arz will make a name for himself. he will be the bpa in that 5-15 range... but as i said, there will be some unknown prospect who will come out of the shadows and make a name for themselves.

QUOTE (beautox @ Sep 19, 2015 -> 04:51 AM) Take the best available talent but if they're board is tied between a pitcher and a hitter, take the pitcher, they've got a track record of consistency when it comes to developing pitchers, we're just now starting to see some hitters surface, and you can always trade pitching for hitting, case in point eaton trade, and the davidson trade (all though that didn't really work out for either team). nice opinion. for me, 1-4 are easily a pick for a sp. 5-15 several positional players. but for me, i wouldn't be surprise to see some unknown player shoot up to this slot. for me, my money will on on this ARZ kid 3b-dalbec .

for the most part, i enjoy greg's post. he add that little spice that is needed in life.

QUOTE (EvilJester99 @ Sep 19, 2015 -> 04:11 AM) The key to that is alleged... why would they turn their back on him? I don't think they are putting him in the spot light in any positive way at all. However, they need to make him get some help one way or another. Even if he didn't do this act, he still put himself into a position to be accused. He has to be much smarter than that. you are now doing a double take on the self righteous comment you made. unbelievable

the sox have lost faith in themselves, lost confidence and lost hope. all they are doing to going thru the motions. someone in the dugout needs to come call them out. this is the time for a manager or captain to do it..... who will it be.... silence and the sounds of crickets.

QUOTE (bmags @ Sep 18, 2015 -> 10:14 PM) All of this could be filed under "easy PR issues to avoid by withholding Kane from practice until cleared" and can easily avoid any protest from any group who may want to cause extra havoc and accusing the org of not caring.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Sep 18, 2015 -> 08:52 PM) I hope none of you were those pathetic losers that I see on the front page of the trib's website cheering / defending Kane and his right to be at practice. I understand he has the right, but its pathetic for you go to waste your pathetic lifes to cheer on a guys who may have done something horrible. I'm not saying everyone should have been their to boo him, but s***, I'd understand that more than these losers. Like I said, he has the right to practice, but the need to go cheer on his right to be their is just pathetic. i totally agree, that is why i was so adamant about not talking any way about the whole incident. there are not enuf evidence nor proof one way or the other. maybe it is me, but i wanted this site to be free of extreme criticism.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 18, 2015 -> 05:21 PM) Or the same guy that irritated many of us by picking a fight with Lorenzo Cain the first game of the season just because they were kicking his ass. maybe it is me, but i like that fire.

QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Sep 18, 2015 -> 05:07 PM) He's our new DH and 4 OF next year. Playoffs here we come!! I'm glad he did well, and was surprised he couldn't find major league work this year. But he's a .260BA, 20HR, terrible plate discipline and bad defense. Don't want him. he has the perfect defense for the dh position. ~~~ edit -- i remember back in the early 90's, i talked to a scout and i asked him has does a player who does really well in the minors offensively, how that transfer over to the majors. he said on a rule, anywhere from a 20-40 bump from the minor league stat. so is a player in the minors, hit 300 and they figure anywhere from 250-290 .... however that was back in the 90's. it probable have change or it is no longer used.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 18, 2015 -> 03:46 PM) Blackhawks are not selling any Kane swag at their training camp. there could be several reasons for this, one can be a legal item.... profiting on a legal situation.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 18, 2015 -> 04:15 AM) Sox should never have gotten in position they have to trade Q. If they hadn't won seven of eight on that road trip they "might" have pulled the trigger and traded Shark, Duke, Lexi and Robertson and gotten the haul right there. Now they have to trade Q? I'll tell you one thing if you trade Q you suddenly have a lot of ifs in the starting rotation. I realize Shark was trash, but now you got 2 starters to replace and Montas or EJ as well as our last No. 1 pick, I forget his name, better be OUTSTANDING. i think there are 2 time span in play here. the first one is when kw screwed the future of this team by being an inept idiot. and the second time was that bs non action on trying to decide on whether to make a run. i believe this is what you are talking about. now i also blame shark for just going thru the motions in his pitching since the trade deadline.

QUOTE (woods of ypres @ Sep 18, 2015 -> 07:14 AM) Had some blood sausage and head cheese tonight. Pretty good. blood sausage is great..... forget about the head cheese. that is an acquired taste. i had in addition to the home made bread, asian beef stew. first time and it is great. the spices were different in unique. i just ate the vegetables and stew. i ate to freaking much..... i can't sleep. but it was tasty.

This board backed Kenny fully. There was almost unanimous dislike of Ozzie and wanting him gone. I may have been his only 'vocal' backer on here. Fans on here had tremendous dislike of Ozzeroo. I kept reminding everybody he brought Chicago a title. Like I said they backed Kenny over Oz. I call it 'hate.' Call it whatever u want. i understand, but b/c he, ozzie, lead the team to a WS championship, does not give him a life long pass on any misdeeds. misdeeds such as ozzie had done and that is the crux of this whole string of msg. also remember 1 thing, i tried to stay out of this discussion b/c of my dislike for both kw and ozzie. both i really disliked since the late 90's. but as i said before, earlier on thurs, he quit on the org. a contract is a contract. he violated his contract and the marlins were guilty of tampering. which was proven. there is no free pass. Wow. I do feel sorry for Robin. It's why former players should probably not manage. It usually ends up sad. I love Robin and even like his style sort of. It's just that his teams do not compete and have a lot of problems. Remember this team was picked by many to win the division and it was really truly a lousy team. I feel sorry for Robin. Truly do. But with him at the helm, there's no hope next year. only if they were qualified to be a manager.