LDF

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 09:46 PM) You're telling me you want to get rid of a 22 year old, up and coming star in Brandon Saad for unknown 1st round draft picks? How do you not like Bowman? He has recognized the core of this group, build around them, and has brought this city 3 championships in 6 years. read the whole post before you start your yapping. here is the point and i will block it for you. so tell my in your limited observation where i said about getting rid of him and so forth and so on. b/c Dale Tallon was the architect of this team and was pushed out. i still think Tallon is the better GM and unlike Bowman, didn't have a daddy to help him. btw, i dare you to say i am wrong, b/c the yr before Tallon was let go, the 2 bowmans were talking about the draft and daddy bowman was giving him advise.

while searching for something on the sox.... i found this. this is how i would always like to remember him.

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 09:39 PM) You can only hold back $900K of the salary. The rest is still with the big club. Bickell won't get as much as we think. MAYBE a 3rd rounder. Sharp is gone. Hopefully to Washington or Montreal, for his sake. He's been a trooper and deserves to go somewhere he can win. Crawford will only go if StanBo is blown away by an offer. Saad, Kruger, Desjardins, Richards...all back. Oduya, unless he decides to be a nice guy, is gone. Roszival, Vermette, Cumiskey...gone. Rundblad, traded. IMHO. interesting and i will post why later in this post. 4.0 mil - Bickell 2.2 mil - versteeg 2.0 mil - richard, do you think he will give up a bigger contract to resign with the hawks for 2 mil? 900 K - Vermette 100 K - Desjardins 600 K - Rundblad 600 K - Carcillo 600 K - Cumiskey 1.3 mil - Timonen 2.2 mil - Rozsival 3.4 mil - Oduya re bolded - needs to be traded. so that is what is needed in player to fill the team next yr and let alone if any are resigned, that is what will bother me, the cost. http://www.generalfanager.com/teams/chicago-blackhawks now comes the spicy things, Saad and his new contract. i hope, and i am not a fan of Bowman, that will not overpay for him like Bickell, but his contract needs to be #1 to take care off. next thing i would do is reach out to a rfa and offer a huge contract for the right one, and / or make a trade with the team. i would offer the contract. so what is the penalty of signing a rfa that is not yours. this player |s|i looking at will be in the 6.5 mil range. so the hawks will loose 4 - first rounders. before anyone jumps on me..... 4 - 1 rnd in the 28-30 in pick, a pick that will take time to develop and more importantly, the hawks can use this young 23 yr superstar player to help get more stanley cups. it is not like the system doesn't have players to get them over this, but they will continue to draft in round 2 - 7. it is a win - win idea.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 09:22 PM) It really isn't that much different, in fact, I'd argue it is easier for good teams to add talent today (vs. mid 90's). Only major difference was individual players could get paid even more. Bulls for years could almost never bring anyone of any value in. Vs. today's age with the MLE and I'd say it is easier for good teams to add quality players vs. the 90's. I can't think of any major FA the Bulls signed during the Jordan era (after they started winning) vs. you look at a lot of title teams today and they get the MLE each year and can continue to add quality players while benefiting from the bird right rules (as long as you are willing to pay the tax). does any of this has anything to do with making more money, salary is worth more and specifically rookies are coming in and making an impact. i still say the main bottom line is they make more.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 09:36 PM) Better be cash considerations. the sox are saved......

QUOTE (jdupps @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 08:57 PM) Keep this team together and with a top 3 pick each of Sale's next four years draft a SS,2B,3B, and C. Looking back over the last 4 years that might be players like: 2012 Correa SS Buxton OF Zunino C 2013 Bryant 3B Frazier OF Appel P 2014 Schwarber C,OF Gordon SS Jackson OF 2015 Swanson SS Bregman SS Rogers SS In the mean time we can enjoy Sale pitching every 5th game and Abreu batting with no one on. i know that you are really thinking of something.... so this is on me, i can't figure out what you are driving at.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 09:01 PM) My exact phrase would have been "last year he was above average as a 5th starter and below average as a 4th starter" which is true. Unfortunately he did not perform at that level this year. Therefore he's been replaced. I'm also not concerned with the payout JR's heirs will receive. For example, I want them paying the salary of 2 managers because one of them was removed while still under contract in the middle of 2015. I assume you're also ok with that since you want to minimize the payout JR's heirs will receive. re Hector, i agree, last yr was a pleasant surprise in him with others failed. second ref heirs, who cares what they will receive, it was thru bad management that got their father and company in that position. but they will still walk away with a real nice rtn on their org investment.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 06:53 PM) It is still a cap. And while you can go over, that has a lot to do with bird rights, etc. birds right is a way around the cap. the nba has yet to fix that and it doesn't appear as they want to. it is too profitable not to. nhl no birds right, hard cap nba cap 2014 = 63 mil+ bulls salary = 67 + mil nhl cap 2014 = 69 mil + hawks 67 mil+ lets also not forget about the difference in rosters max number.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 07:11 PM) http://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/...for_chris_sale/ Some perspective from fans of other teams. that first sCrubs offers was extremely funny. the rest was pitiful.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 07:01 PM) Sounds like a new Alzheimer's drug....if only there was such a medication to erase the first two months and reboot. hahaha and as bad as my english is, they would be better than spelling than I.... damn.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 06:44 PM) No we're not, lol. We're already IN a rebuild. Just because a bunch of guys are having s***ty years doesn't mean you blow up again. Samardzija will be traded or QO'd for a pick, Melky will bounce back to some degree, and Robertson and LaRoche (though the latter has been slumping recently) are fine. Eaton will bounce back. Should be another eventful offseason. Fortunately it looks like Rodon is here to stay, so our top three starters are affordable and locked up. Danks has another year so that is what it is. We go into the offseason searching for a #4 starter, 3B, and C. We'll still have a bunch of strong bullpen pieces in place. Danks remains the only albatross and he's only got one more year. so that is a #4 sp and Danks being #5. i still would get 2 more sp's to help. just in case of the unexpected.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 06:49 PM) So...we've got $120 million in payroll already committed next season, more than we spent this year already, we need a new catcher, 3b, and SS (you left that out), we also need our 2b candidates to successfully develop and we need one of the worst hitters in baseball to re-find the things that made him a decent hitter that totally weren't injected. And we need to do that without being able to really add payroll because we've already got so much committed. That's the path I see to a lost decade. that is 120 - Aelxia salary for next yr = 110. +/- btw, there is no replacement in the minors for the ss position, and i am not counting Anderson unless the sox say so.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 07:10 PM) Bulls did everything in a salary cap era. Bulls teams had 3 HOF with in the post-season a roster that really only went 8 or 9 deep (and that is stretching it given the minutes the starters would log in the NBA in 90's). That is 33% of your roster being HOF'er with 1 the greatest rebounder over, 1 the greatest of all time, and the other a guy who was pretty much the best player in the league when Jordan was out (and the best defensive player in that era....along with Jordan who was incredible as well). that is kind of a misnomer.... in the nba, the teams can go over the cap and get penalize according to a league approve penalty. hockey has a hard cap.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 07:42 PM) To say they rushed Beckham is also funny. He was the Sporting News Rookie of the Year in 2009. that still didn't really mean anything. how else would you explain how he took a tumble. remember in every excuse you come up with, i will say, well SN had him rookie of the yr...

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 07:39 PM) Beckham got about 2800 PA before they pulled the plug. Viciedo about 1800. Were you upset when they were no longer with the team, thinking the patience wasn't what it should have been? and with that explanation i can see your point

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 07:36 PM) They were patient with Viciedo? When they called him up from AA during his 2nd year to sit on the bench? When he got a starting job after a decent but 1/2 season stint at Charlotte? When they moved him from 3b to 1b to 3b to RF to LF within a 3 year stint? They were patient with Beckham when he got 259 minor league PAs before being called up to the bigs? and that is the draw back of rushing players.... esp if the owners group want some instant rtn on their investment.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 06:10 PM) We are a month and a half away, but let's be serious, the chatter is going to start getting louder within the next week or two. Jayson Stark wrote a column today about potential deadline targets and included Samardzija: http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/13102518...line-approaches Who would you shoot for from the Giants? Beede? Susac? i like to see what Hahn has in store

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 07:06 PM) What's the point of having Chris Sale win a ton of games in the next few seasons for a team that is going to be older, more expensive, and weaker than the disastrous 2015 team? Why is it so important for us to get to 72 wins? Explain to me how this team has a path to being competitive with multiple bad contracts for players who will be aging and virtually nothing available in the minors to help over the next couple years and you'll convince me to hold onto Sale. I was in exactly your position last year saying "oh we can still wait even until 2016 with him and grow as a roster rather than trading him." Now I'm looking at this team as facing even more years of rebuilding after the 2015 disaster with virtually no hope for reinforcements over the next several years. Give me a path that actually could work over the next couple years and I'll get your point. Right now I don't see it. Minor league system is bare except for a couple starting pitchers, 5 positions in the lineup are disasters, even the talented guys we have in the OF in Eaton and Garcia are struggling. and who is to say that the sox can improve on 72 wins.... but the sox still have Sale... wow

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 07:02 PM) Exactly, and trading Sale for prospects could easily turn this into a worse debacle. As a comment I saw on reddit stated: "I'd rather have a guaranteed yearly Cy Young candidate than gamble on 5 top prospects - which could yield f***-all and could realistically end up yielding a group that develops into a decent position player, a 4th starter, a solid reliever and a 4th OF - a nice package but hardly worth a guy like Sale." and i disagree, by making smarts moves to help a org in a hole that they have, in this case, getting prospects who can help the big club. in this situation, it is trading, this is an idea, Sale can do it, or Q....

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 06:34 PM) Under normal circumstances (i.e. 2014) I would totally agree with Shys. It's no longer normal circumstances. We're now staring over an abyss, that makes more drastic responses something we need to consider. i normally won't disagree with posters opinions trying to have them change their opinions. however pls understand that no one has all the answers and there is some that will not be answered, b/c only the sox FO has the answers, we as fans are not privy to the FO. now for my pov on the la dodgers, their #1,2,3 are as good to close to the majors and are projected to develop into something special. i will stop there of this half. the other part of that discussion is that the experience and success that Sale has accomplished, now no one will be able to replace that.. but that is what that team wants and to pay to get. if they had it, do you think they will be trading to acquire it??

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 06:11 PM) Q has the best two way center in the game today, and the best D man in the game today. He also has two other guys who are probably Hall of Famers, and they are doing it during the salary cap era. That is without getting into just the regular old star players. excellent point. also remember that the salary contracts are spread out just perfectly. not all overlapping at one time. so there is a subtle attrition that happens over a period of time and not at one time. i will still keep on saying this. many have to put the value of the goaltender in that equation.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 05:11 PM) Because minor league players aren't fair value for Sale, it's just a fact. The talent combined with the contract make him a rare asset, and if you want him, your MLB team is gonna have to be involved. There aren't any more ways I can say it. and i disagree..... There aren't any more ways I can say it.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 05:18 PM) "We want to invest in a full rebuild..." "No, we can't do that because the players we bring up suck (and will be worse than our current players), our minor league preparation sucks, we can't do anything but identify pitchers and Cubans in the first place." "Guess we have to keep investing in aging and expensive free agents and wait for their contracts to become albatrosses...to the point where we have to sell them off for 50 cents on the dollar." "Hmmm...." "Well, we've got Sale, Quintana, Rodon, Abreu, Robertson, Eaton, Garcia, Fulmer...how can you possibly blow up that core when you've got two superstars and possibly another along with two future All-Stars???" "Must be something missing from the equation. Gee, what could it be?" "Let's just ride things out with Flowers, Alexei, Danks, Sanchez, Cabrera....they can't be THIS bad forever. Look at the back of their baseball cards, those numbers mean something." "Look at our winning percentage and attendance since our annual second half collapse in 2010. That means something as well." Crickets. Cue soundtrack to "The Wheels on the Bus Go Round and Round" that is funny. very nice.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 06:05 PM) Because Sale is a top 3 pitcher in a baseball and has a very team friendly contract, probably a top 3 contract in baseball as well. He's also only 26 years old and left-handed, and is under team control for 5 seasons including this one. You don't trade that for unproven minor leaguers, I don't care if they're all top 10 on BA's hot list. You need to get some proven major league talent for that kind of value, and at that point it becomes too much for other teams to give up. and the main point on this, this is a fantasy trade, so how do we know what the GM's involve will want or can get. no one. there is no right answer.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 06:02 PM) To be fair though, the organization has not made much of an attempt to develop many hitters in the darft since 2010 here are the positions drafted in the first 5 rounds: 2015 - 3 Pitchers 2014 - 4 Pitchers - 1 Catcher (Austin) 2013 - 3 Pitchers - 1 SS (Anderson #1), 1 OF (May #13) 2012 - 2 Pitchers - 1 OF (Hawkins #8), 1 1B (Barnum #27), 1 2B (DeMichele), 1 SS Nick Basto 2011 - 4 Pitchers - 1 OF (Walker) 2010 - 5 Pitchers - 1 1B (Wilkins) So 21 pitchers and 9 position players drafted in that time span. Of the trades that have been made, the prospects that they have acquired have been: Samardzjia trade - 1 pitching prospect Gordon Beckham trade - 1 pitching prospect ADA trade - acquired 2 pitching prospects Adam Dunn trade - acquired 1 pitching prospect Jake Peavy trade - acquired 2 pitching prospects, 1 SS (Rondon #12) Jesse Crain trade - 1 pitching prospect, 1 3B prospect (Kline) Matt Thorntom trade - 1 OF prospect (Jacobs) Addison Reed trade - 1 3B prospect (Davidson #9) Jason Frasor trade - 2 pitching prospects Ozzie Guillen trade - 2 pitching prospects , 1 SS prospect (Martinez) Carlos Quentin trade - 2 pitching prospects Sergio Santos trade - 1 pitching prospect Scott Linebrink trade - 1 pitching prospect Thats 16 pitchers and 5 position players in trades in that time as well (not including ML ready players and spring training filler trades - true prospects) In all the Sox have added 37 pitchers to only 14 position players in the last five years in the top of draft or in trades. Of the 14 hitting prospects acquired - Kline, Wilkins, Jacobs, and Martinez are out of the org 6 of the remaining 10 are in the top 30 prospects. Yes guys like Walker and Barnum have been busts but they have made up for it by drafting guys like Michalzeski, Semien, and Johnson in the later rounds. no matter what, you did alot of hard work getting this. many thanks.