southsideirish

QUOTE(qwerty @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 04:09 AM) Why get him? For s***s and giggles i suppose? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Did you even read the post I was replying to? It was a suggestion to zoom stating that we needed a backup SS. So I proposed we have SF throw in Vizquel as well which would allow Uribe to move to third and also be our backup SS. That is all.

QUOTE(qwerty @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 04:01 AM) Hm, why do i care about the payroll? Well if we start trading for guys that are in their late thirties with 3 years on their contract we have a problem. Omar vizquel is not putting this team, the chicago white sox, over the top. The sox would not think of trading for vizquel is 345 and two thirds of a years because right when he was offered the third year by the giants we waived good bye to him. The third year was the deal breaker. Do you think vizquel would come in and lead-off or bat third? He would end up at the bottom of the line-up just like uribe. Uribe is just as good as vizquel is defensively if not better. It is not worth the prospects it takes to get him along with the two years 6+ million left on his contract. The reason i asked if your gonna pay for his salary is because the white sox won't be. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Where the hell did I say he was putting our team over the top? Where did I say he would ever bat leadoff? I think he will be batting 8th or 9thI think he is a contact hitter who can get on base and maybe steal one if you need him to. Do I think he is better than Uribe defensively? No! And I never said he was. Nor did I say he would put us over the top. And if we keep winning and fans keep coming to the park we don't have a problem. If Vizquel can help the team win then I am all for it. I would also doubt it would cost a whole hell of a lot to get him.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 03:56 AM) We don't know that Schmidt is available. We're just speculating. About a month ago Chavez was available and we were speculating the same way. Zito is the same way. In fact, his GM said that he isn't going anywhere. And we're assuming that Burnett is available, despite the fact the Florida is only 6 out in their division and 3.5 out of the wildcard. The difference in this situation is that the Giants aren't a cash-strapped small market team that can't afford to keep anyone. They're also probably still under some crazy impression that they can compete once Bonds get back. I'm also not sure why you expect them to throw in Vizquel, considering that he is hitting close to .300 and is signed for two more seasons, or that we would want him after signing Uribe. We don't really know who is available the vast majority of the time. At this time every year we sit here arguing about whatever big name players we can acquire that we never really even come close to getting, and many of those guys never get dealt anyways. In the end, it's highly unlikely that these big name potential impact players will get dealt, which is why I'm looking for and expecting more minor changes. You don't see the division leaders making that many moves that drastically alter the makeup of their team, it's always the teams trying to make up ground like the Astros last year. I definitely see this being the case with us, especially in regards to a starting pitcher, since we have 5 starting pitchers under contract through the end of next season, and our top prospect is also a starter. Also, there's not telling whether or not Jenks (or Baj for that matter) will come up to the big club and produce, or if Gload will be able to be a solid role player. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I didn't and I wasn't looking to make a ton of changes. I just wanted Schmidt and a 3rd baseman that makes contact. Those are the changes you wanted to make. From what the insiders say Schmidt is available and the Giants want to get younger. Burnett is available because he is a FA next year and will be demanding crazy money. I thought we were making a push for the World Series? If we are then I am not counting on the Count and El Duque. I am also not going to count on Garland to produce like this for the whole year. If he does great, but I don't want it to be something I am banking on in order to move on. There is no telling wether Jenks, Baj, or Gload will produce when they get here. However, there is also no telling another major league reliever, backup ss, or lefthanded 1B will either when they come to the Sox.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 03:49 AM) I don't think some people realize that Uribe is here mostly for his defense. Why do you guys think Buehrle and Garland are racking up so many wins? Uribe's defense is a huge key. Move him to 3rd base? Why? He isn't hitting much better than Crede. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree, just giving zoom some options for a backup SS. Thats all.

QUOTE(qwerty @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 03:46 AM) Jenks is not ready this year. Don't even think he is. Vizquel? You can pay for his contract and i will be fine with that. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Umm, I think the White Sox are paying. I wish I was paying it cause it would make me an owner. Reinsdorf said that money is not an issue. So start adding. Why the hell do you care so much about payroll? Your not paying for it? Your not the White Sox accountant. What the f*** do you care? And I think that Jenks is ready and he will be up this year.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 03:16 AM) Why do we have to do anything? We have the best record in baseball, don't we? Why must we always make changes; why must we change something that isn't broken? If I were going to make changes to the team, I'd try to add another solid right handed reliever, try to find a left-handed backup for Paulie (or wait for Gload to come back, if that ever happens), and find a dependable backup shortstop. None of those options should cost that much, and they would solidfy the team without making massive changes. I'd also like to get Chavez, but I know that is a pipedream. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Because I don't want to just MAKE the playoffs. I have seen the White Sox do that plenty of times. I want to win in the playoffs. I want to move on and have a realistic chance of winning the World Series. Just because we have the best record in baseball does not mean we have the best team in baseball. We have an opportunity to get better, so why shouldn't we take that opportunity? Bobby Jenks will be that solid right handed reliever. We don't have to go out and get one, we already have him. Done. Ross Gload. Done. Maybe we can have the Giants include Vizquel in a deal with Schmidt. That would enable you to move Uribe to third and he can be the reliable backup SS when he is needed. Chavez is not going anywhere. I would like to have A-Rod and Jeter as well. While we are at it why don't we see if we can get Scott Rolen and Albert Pujols from the Cardinals. Point is Schmidt is available. Chavez is not.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 03:01 AM) All the more reason to avoid him, especially since he was struggling in his 4 starts before he hit the DL too. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So then what do you want the Sox to do? A reliever? Who is out there? There is no one that would make a difference. Just doesn't seem like your willing to take a chance on anything.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 02:49 AM) The point is that unless something bad happens getting another starting pitcher is a waste of talent and money. If you acquire someone like Schmidt, either Jon or Freddy or him will have their effectiveness drastically minimized in the playoffs, which is supposedly what the deal is meant to help us with. I especially don't like this idea when the guy has struggled for most of the year like Schmidt. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The guy is coming back from an injury.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 01:22 AM) In other words, you couldn't find a team. White Sox have solid pitching and a decent pen. I'll admit that the Angels have a better one so that's why we need relievers and not starters. You don't know how a starter will react in a pen minus Contreras since he's been there. We don't know how good El Duque will do out of the pen since there is not a big enough sample size. We don't know how Schmidt will do out of the pen. You said it yourself that we need a reliever that could get 3 outs and it's far easier to find one which means you don't have to mortgage your future and that you can get someone for cheaper than trading for a starter. You made my point for me. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What reliever is available that is better than we already have? Not one reliever that is available will make a difference to our march to the World Series like Schmidt would. We have Jenks available to call up at anytime. KW has already said that there is nothing available in terms of relievers that are better than what he has in house either in the majors or minors. I agree with him. It makes no sense to not want to give up these so called prospects who have not made one contribution to our team in order to get someone that can and most likely will make a major contribution. How can you be so sure about Garland being this good for an entire year? Count is so erratic he is aggravating to watch. El Duque has already pissed off KW and Ozzie. And stop comparing us to the Angels, Orioles, Red Sox, and Indians. Our offense is so much worse than any of those teams that we have to pitch lights out in order to win. As much as their offense is better than ours that is how much out pitching has to be better than theirs. That is why we need that other ace starter. Why are you so concerned about our farm system or spending the White Sox money? Let them worry about that.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 10:04 PM) Again, you ignore the fact that Contreras probably won't be pitching in the games unless we are up 3-1 in any series(which there's only 2 possible scenarios of if someone is way too injured to play). Schmidt is not needed. I can't people are actually debating this. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I am not ignoring the fact that we are a much weaker hitting team than Boston. We need to be lights out pitching. It is great that Garland looks like he has turned the corner this year, but the fact is this is the first time it looks like he has figured things out. Schmidt is proven. Give me Buehrle, Schmidt, and Garcia against anyone else in the playoffs and I think we win. I feel very good with our chances with those top 3 than anything else we can throw out there today. Is it possible that Schmidt is not needed and Garland, Contreras, or El Duque can get the job done. Of course it is. However, I would rather take my chances with Jason Schimdt than any of those 3. What are we giving up anyway? Prospects? Prospects and a weak hitting third baseman for a chance at the WS? DO IT AND DO IT NOW!!!!!!!! We can always get more prospects.

Scouting Report 2004 Season Jason Schmidt had two seasons. The first was a Cy Young Award campaign over the first four-plus months. The second was a disappointing, injury-plagued August and September. Schmidt was 15-4 with a 2.52 ERA on August 17, a heavy favorite to win his first Cy Young, when he hurt his right groin in a start against Montreal. Though not at full strength, he returned after an 11-day layoff, later admitting he wasn't ready to come back. Houston's Roger Clemens won the Cy Young, with Schmidt finishing a disappointing fourth. Clemens admitted when he won the award that Schmidt "was the Cy Young race" before he was injured. Pitching Many players call Schmidt the most feared starter in the National League. He not only throws hard and has a nasty slider, but he has developed a changeup that is among the best in the game. Rather than nibbling at the corners as he did earlier in his career in Pittsburgh, Schmidt comes at hitters with a fastball clocked as high as 98 MPH. Schmidt had a 12-game winning streak from April 26 to July 17 in which he established himself as the top starter in baseball. He threw two one-hitters during the streak, each against high-powered offenses (Cubs, Red Sox). Defense & Hitting If there is a drawback in Schmidt's game, it's his fielding. His 6-foot-5 frame and high-energy delivery put him at a disadvantage with the glove. He committed three errors last season. An elbow injury in 2003 hindered Schmidt at the plate. He has four homers in his career, however, with 17 RBI. Although at times he can look awkward at the plate, he has sneaky power. OR Scouting Report 2004 Season What happened to the Barry Zito magic in 2004? Had the league simply figured him out? Were hitters sitting on his curve? Was he hurt? Was he tired? Did he miss former pitching coach Rick Peterson? There were no easy answers, as Zito struggled for most of the year. Although Zito was a bit better during the second half, 2004 has to be considered a disappointment for a pitcher who traditionally has been a dominant force after the All-Star break. Pitching It is no secret that Zito does not overpower anyone. His fastball, at best, clocks at 89 MPH, though he does have a solid change. But Zito lives and dies by his wicked 12-to-6 curve. Throwing it for strikes didn't come as easy in 2004, and Zito fell behind hitters more often and was hit a lot more. Near midseason, Zito added a two-seam fastball that fades from hitters, and that aided him during the second half. Defense Zito wields a good-enough glove, and he has handled between 36-45 total chances in each of the past four seasons. He did make a pair of errors last year. After allowing 23 steals in 2001, his first full season in the majors, Zito has been better at holding baserunners in check. GIVE ME JASON SCHMIDT!

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 09:46 PM) He started off the season slow, but if you look at his #s from May on he has been pretty solid and is progressively getting better. I think this will be a great move. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He also pitches in the greatest pitchers park in the American League. If he has bad numbers there then I would hate to see what he does at the Cell. I will pass on Zito.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 08:47 PM) LAA is the only team with a better 4th starter than us. Minny doesn't have a good 4th starter. I believe that's Kyle Lohse or Joe Mays right now. They aren't better than Count and remember, Count dominates bad hitting clubs usually. Minny is a bad hitting club. Boston had Clement and Schilling, but Miller or Wakefield as their 4th. Miller isn't back to his form pre injury. And Minny does not have a better hitting club than us. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why even compare us to Boston. They have the best hitting lineup in the majors. There is not one easy out in the entire lineup. In order for us to beat them our pitching has to be head and shoulders abover theirs, not just a little bit better. At this time I would consider the Count just a little bit better than Miller or Wakefield. They also have David Wells and Bronson Arroyo. Either one of those guys could be as good or better than the Count. Boston can flat out hit. We are built around pitching, so we can't afford a bad game from the Count. Boston can afford one of thier pitchers to get lit up because they can score tons of runs.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 08:34 PM) This is starting to strike me as very similar to the whole Randy Johnson thing last year. We're dreaming about adding a starting pitcher that is going to cost us a ton and probably wouldn't be back the next year. None of the teams we are going to face in the playoffs have stellar staffs, so I'm not worried about how our 4th starter is going to match up against some scrub. I'd rather not give up our top two prospects and play a bunch of money for a guy that probably isn't going to help out that much. They playoffs are such a small sample size that all Schmidt has to do is get roughed up slightly (like 4 runs in 6 innings) and the whole thing backfires. Is Schmidt's probability of providing a quality start really any higher than our current guys? Judging by their performance to this point, I'd say no. Even with his recent good starts, his ERA is 4.85. Even Contreras is at 4.15. Schmidt has had two good starts recently to drop his ERA while Jose has had two bad ones to jack it up, not to mention that he's doing it in the NL in a division with three really good pitcher's parks, including his home park. Yes, Schmidt has a better history than Jose. But we'd have to give up a bunch to see if Schmidt can turn it around, while we have Jose for nothing. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What are you talking about? LAA has a very good staff, Bartolo Colon, Paul Byrd, John Lackey, Jarrod Washburn...Minnesota, and Cleveland also have very good staffs. Boston has Clement, Schilling, Miller, Wells, and Arroyo. I would say all but Minnesota has a better hitting lineup than ours. All of those teams are possibilities to meet us in the playoffs.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 08:26 PM) Last year, Houston was 14th in terms of total runs scored in the MLB. We are currently sitting ninth this year. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think you look too much at statistics, but how good of an offense were they after they acquired Carlos Beltran and went on their run? I believe they were very good.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 08:17 PM) Exact point I've been trying to make all day. You're basically mortgaging a future for 2 starts max in the playoffs. Beck72, you don't consider Buehrle an ace?? I certainly do. El Duque is just needed for 2 starts against the Twins really and Contreras just needs to finish the season. I'm not willing to spend tons of money and future for us to have to bench one of our aces for the most part in the playoffs. Look at Houston. They made a damn good run with Rocket and Oswalt and Backe who is far from an ace. St. Louis had a worse off pitching staff than that. Burnett as much as I'd love to have him and Schmidt just aren't needed or even close to being a priority. I'd say bullpen(lights out closer because I think Hermy is coming back to earth) and hitting(3rd base in particular) are much more needed than another ace. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Who says we won't get a 3rd baseman and a SP in this deal? I have heard rumors of where that will be the case. Our closer may be coming up from the minors in the form of Bobby Jenks. KW says he likes what he sees in our organization better when compared to what is available via trade when talking about relief pitching and I would have to agree with him. We can have all of what you are looking for. How do you like them apples?

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 08:14 PM) You mean Felipe Alou. Dusty left after the 2002 season Schmidt then put up sick numbers(17-5, 2.34 ERA, 0.95 WHIP, .200 BAA, K/9 of 9, K/BB of >4 in 03; 18-7, 3.20 ERA, 1.08 WHIP, .202 BAA, K/9 of 10, K/BB of >3 in 04) with Alou at the helm and Dusty wearing that cheesy ass blue. My only fear about Schmidt is that he reminds me a lot of Freddy Garcia. Not saying Freddy Garcia is bad, because he's not...but Schmidt is pitching in like the 3rd best pitcher's park in the majors, similar to Garcia in Safeco, and he's going to Coors Field east(and, not that it is the exact same, but it is somewhat comparable - his ERA at Coors over his career is 5.12...given, that is including his s*** days in Pittsburgh, but the point remains). Is that worth BMac and one of our OF prospects? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Your looking too much into it. The answer to your question is simply, YES!!!!

QUOTE(VAfan @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 08:09 PM) Let's be realistic here. I'm all for making a trade to win the World Series. But is AJ Burnett or Jason Schmidt going to be the guy? In a 5-game opening series we already have Buehrle, Garcia and Garland 1-3. If we are pressed into game 4, we then have either Contreras or El Duque. Contreras's "stuff" is as good as any pitcher we are talking about trading for, but he seems to be a head case, is easy to steal on, and can be prone to give up the long ball. El Duque, on the other hand, seems to rely entirely on guile, but if completely healthy would likely be a lot better than his opponent. If the first 4 games are split, then we have Buehrle again for game 5, unless we've added Roger Clemens to our team. So why mortgage the future for 1 ALDS start? The other cost of Burnett is that he's a free agent looking for a big contract. (Another reason not to give up the farm for a guy we could have for "free" next year.) But we are already on the hook for millions for Buehrle, Garcia, and Contreras next year, plus $4 million for El Duque and a big raise for Jon Garland. Given the Sox are a zero-sum outfit, if we spend a lot more for a new starter, someone else is going to have to go. Frank Thomas? Paul Konerko? AJ Pierzynski? Schmidt poses the same dilemma with his $10 million option. Now if another team would take Contreras's $8 million salary for next year off our hands, then we might be able to slot a Burnett or Schmidt into that hole. But who would do that? We aren't going to spend $40-50 million of a $70 million payroll on 5 starting pitchers, are we? I'm not sure the answer to this, but unless management is planning on increasing the payroll next year by at least $10 million (which is what it will cost for this new starting pitcher everyone is drooling over), this all strikes me as a fantasy exercise. I certainly don't want to surrender our top prospects on a 3-month rental. (Though Roger Clemens has tempted me.) The only reason the Garcia trade has worked for us (we could sure use Mike Morse at SS instead of Uribe, couldn't we?) is we signed Garcia for 3 years. To keep the Sox winning AL Central divisions and making the postseason we need to be smart. Brandon McCarthy is the only pitcher in our system who could possibly hold down the #5 hole for a bargain price. I would think hard before trading him. In the outfield, we're stuck with Jermaine Dye through 2006, but after that we need a home grown guy to take his place. SS is another position we could use talent from within. The point is that all of you drooling over the latest guy on the trade block need to see the bigger picture and evaluate whether it will force us to blow up the team next year. I suppose if I could be guaranteed a WS victory, maybe I could die and be happy and not care. But few trade acquisitions are going to guarantee that. You know, what really hamstrings us here is the Contreras trade and to a lesser extent the El Duque signing. Because we're on the hook for $12 million for the two of them this year and next, we really can't make a move to improve our starters without trying to unload one or both of them. But who would take either of them? Face it, we may be stuck trying to make the best with our Cuban starters, but I don't see that as all bad. Contreras really can have great outings. And El Duque, if he can be used sparingly until October, might turn in a gem or two. I guess, all in all, I'm on the fence. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> There is no reason why they would not be willing to increase the payroll if we go to the playoffs. Each round we get through means more money for them. Plus the year after a great year is usually when you see the most money coming in. There should be no reason not to increase the payroll by at least 10 million if they make it far into the playoffs. Another big time starter such as Jason Schmidt to go along with Mark Buehrle and Freddy Garcia improves our chances of going further than just the 1st round. Money should really not be brought into this equation.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 03:45 PM) That's an interesting proposal. So I guess it basically breaks down to Sweeney/BMac for Schmidt and Crede/Tracey for Alfonzo. How's Alfonzo's defense? He's always been a pretty good hitter who gets on base at a decent clip. Also doesn't strike out much at all. I'm gonna go out on a limp here and say the Sox will have some scouts in ARZ tonight to watch Schmidt's start... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Alfonzo has always been known as a good glove man. I think the question is his health and how long can he stay healthy.

I was just talking to a buddy of mine from San Francisco and there is a trade rumor floating around out there about the White Sox. Again this is a rumor and it came from their local radio, so take it for what it's worth. White Sox get: SP Jason Schmidt 3B Edgardo Alfonzo, on the DL but due to come off of it this week SF Giants get: 3B Joe Crede SP Brandon McCarthy OF Ryan Sweeney SP Sean Tracey The question is would you do it? 3 of our top 10 prospects and our current major league 3B? That is a hell of a lot to give up.

We should reach 2 million fans this year without a problem. Should be our best attendance since 1993.

QUOTE(TheHammer @ Jun 24, 2005 -> 07:34 PM) I would argue that our 5 starters, Cotts, Politte, Hermy, Konerko, Everett, Rowand, Iguchi, AJ, and Dye have all been more important to this teams success than Podsednik. I think someone pointed out that we are like 7-3 when he doesn't play. No single position player is really that important to this team this season. Especially one with a weak bat and defense <{POST_SNAPBACK}> We had 4 of the 5 starters last year as well as Cotts, Politte, Konerko, Everett, Rowand. If they were really that important and Lee is better than Pods and Vizcaino then we should have won last year. Also the Pods trade freed up money to get AJ, Iguchi, Hermy, and El Duque. Thank you Carlos Lee. I agree that no one position player is greater than another, but that trade helped make this team. That deal is the main reason we have this type of team. We won that trade. Let Carlos Lee put up all the numbers he wants. He is one of the dumbest ball players in the MLB and shows it on a consistent basis. We are a much better built team without him.

QUOTE(Jimenez4MVP @ Jun 23, 2005 -> 05:03 PM) maybe.. you dont know what keeping Lee and him doing what hes doing now would do for our team.. you can what if it all you want I stick by what I said, ide rather have Lee and think Milwaukee won that deal.. Especially now how its painfully obvious we did NOT get fair value for Lee <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I would rather be 49-22 after 71 games than 33-39 after 72 games. Pods has contributed a lot to that win total. Lee was here and he always made bone head mistakes that seemed to lead to loses. Lee may be one of the worst baserunners I have ever seen. I don't care what numbers he is putting up, the White Sox won that deal.

QUOTE(upnorthsox @ Jun 24, 2005 -> 03:42 PM) Yea gut the farm system for a 2 month rental, that's a smart move. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If it brings the Chicago White Sox a World Series Championship then it is a move of a genius. I don't care if he ever comes back. Then again chances are if we win the World Series we will bring him back.

QUOTE(robinventura23 @ Jun 20, 2005 -> 06:28 PM) Why all the talk about another closer? What is wrong with Hermanson? If anything we need another middle reliever. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hermanson is ok, but I wouldn't mind having someone better and moving Hermanson to setup.