Chisoxfn

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 11:07 PM) You've got to think that the clubhouse is going to be a lot looser and much funner this year. You've already got guys like Buehrle and Pierzynski, and now you add the Aaron Rowand-esque personality of Nick Swisher. And on top of that, I read that Fields and Quentin were good friends. And of course you got Papa Thome, the great story teller. If Ramirez makes the roster, then Contreras has got a new friend, and Bobby Jenks is a bit of a personality himself. Plus Orlando Cabrera who is hillarious and just the ultimate team guy.

QUOTE(Vance Law @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 10:14 PM) You like them because it is not our team. Contreras, Danks, and Floyd are finished/not good enough yet respectively because, emotionally invested, you watched them do poorly last year. Bonderman, however, is great. He's Bonderman, that guy who everyone's talked about for a few years and he's gonna be great, so he's very good. Never mind that he was bad last year and in 5 full years as a starter he's had exactly 1 year that was at least league average. He's good, he's to be feared, he's Bonderman. Oh, and Willis, too. He almost won a Cy Young. Last year didn't happen. And Kenny Rogers is fine he's great. He started 11 games last year. Contreras, that guy is old, he's done. He's 48, really. Sure he was pretty awesome when he was like 46, but he's 48 now. Rogers is only 43. I'd take Bonderman's stuff over every person in the Sox rotation not named Javy, but I will admit his numbers have been nothing but mediorce. Than again a lot of people said similar things about Josh Beckett for a couple years, especially his first season or so in Boston where he was again mediocre. Everyone knew he had amazing stuff but between blister trouble and inconsistencies he wasn't dominate. Than all of a sudden last season rolled out around and he officially emerged. I know one thing, Bonderman's numbers may not have been great, but I and every other baseball person would love to have him in the front 3 of your rotation and if the Tigers are down on him I'd love to find a way to make an interdivision trade.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 09:52 PM) OK, now with a bit of research, prospects (pitching) that are better than DLS: Hughes, Chamberlain, Cueto, Bailey, Kershaw, Carrasco, Morales, Price, Porcello, Volstad, Bucholz, both Millers, McGee, Gio, Elbert...? Adenhart, Kennedy, Scherzer

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 09:46 PM) Honestly, I think Swisher may end up being the most popular player on the Sox and will be a all star caliber player for a few seasons at least. He's pretty damn good. I completely agree. I think he joins Buehrle and Paulie as the faces as the franchise and definitely gives the Sox a bat to replace Thome in a year (if Thome is gone) or Paulie/Dye (if they opt to trade them). Either way the Sox have the early makings of a potential 3-4-5 of the future with Swish/Quentin/Fields.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 09:20 PM) No I'm being serious here. It was his 1st full season in the minors, and his K/9 ratios indicate he's a pretty dang good prospect. There's not many other prospects out there who have the FB / Slider combo that he has. I think you're seriously underrating him only because 1 - He doesn't have a good 3rd pitch yet (which can be developed) and; 2 - He only reached high A ball at the end of 2007. On the other hand he is in A ball, only has two good pitches, and was 21 at A ball (which isn't necesarrily young). I love the guy to death but there are a great number of pitchers with superior upside in baseball. He was our best option (along with Gio) but by all means he doesn't rank in the top 10 in baseball, the Sox don't have anyone in that category and if they did it would be if Aaron Poreda proved all the doubters wrong and developed great secondary stuff and didn't have his arm fall off.

QUOTE(DonnyDevito @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 08:40 PM) you're right about one thing. if JC shows up, forget about it! let's be real. westbrook and verlander aren't that good. they won't repeat what they did last season. bondy has mental issues often giving up 3 to 4 runs in the 1st inning of every start. the tigers wish they had our pen at this point. zumaya isn't anything special post injury and grilli is just a running joke. i think our pitching is right there with the indians and tigers. especially given linebrink's addition. many aren't expecting much from him but if he shows up with JC, we're in the postseason. i don't think there will be a finer setup-closer duo in the central than linebrink-jenks. Verlander is a f***ing stud.

QUOTE(DonnyDevito @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 08:10 PM) you are being waaay too tough on the White Sox. Chicago is bound to win 83-87 games this year. what will the future hold? we shall see. The Sox were better than the win total from last season (injuries and just many seasons out of players that were below there career norms) and that was before they made additions which improved there team (Linebrink/Cabrera/Swisher are all massive upgrades over the players they are replacing just as you can make a case that Quentin is talent wise a major upgrade over the player he is replacing). Factor that in and if they get production out of 4 of there 5 pitching spots and I'd consider them a definate wild card contender (I don't know if I'd call them a World Series Contender, but if you are in competition you can always find a way to make a trade to get you an extra piece). Stranger things have happened and I'm not about to throw down a ton of money but I can envision ways that the Sox make the playoffs and even win the division. The odds aren't in favor of it happening but I know that the players in play do have the talent to do what is necessary, its just a matter of certain guys reaching there talent much sooner than expected (plus the fact that often times guys never reach there ceiling/talent levels).

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 07:49 PM) Kershaw... Kennedy/Justin Upton/Gio (and I don't think Gio is top 10)/Adenhart/Kendrick. I'd say DSL is a possible top 50 prospect.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 07:41 PM) Ok just for the sake of discussion, who are 10 better prospects in baseball right now than DLS? And what about 10 better pitching prospects also? There are way more than 10 if you ask me.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 06:55 PM) Does he really believe that this is a championship level team? I did see a quote from Beane that I liked, basically said he knew the writing was on the wall and that they could either continue to be mediocre or retool and try to win it all a year or two from now. I fear there is a chance (and a decent one) that we end up wishing Kenny did that (but I've long said Kenny potcommitted himself this past July and at this point he only has one option and I'm just hoping he is kind of semi planning on going for it, but with a major plan B in mind that will help him retool for 09). And the good part is, technically, Linebrink/Quentin/Swisher/Richar (all of the recent moves) all can factor into 09 and beyond.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 06:03 PM) We're getting into the semantics of what an A prospect is, but no, I don't think Jon Garland would net the Sox an A prospect. I consider an A prospect to be one of the top 20 (or so -- this is admittedly a rather arbitrary number) prospects in all of baseball -- could Garland have netted a Justin Upton, a Phillip Hughes, a Clay Buccholz? I'm sorry, but there's no way Garland could net someone like that. And now we're talking about dealing a player at the deadline. So some team is going to give up six years of an A prospect for two months of Orlando Cabrera? Even if I am underselling Cabrera a bit, there's not a snowball's chance in hell the Sox get an A prospect for two months of The OC. You underestimate that if at the deadline you get a run on deals that you end up having teams overpay. The past two seasons there really hasn't been a flurry of action but years past there would be massive deals with teams trying to one-up one another which led to teams drastically overpaying. There is no guarantee that it happens again ,but I wouldn't be shocked if a team or two end up getting a little lose with there prospects, especially if they haven't had a shot at a world series in some time (I think Detroit will be willing, Cleveland will as well, given the fact that CC will be due for a fat contract and this may be there best chance at the series; Anaheim is also feeling major heat for falling short and will be willing to make a splash, same with the Dodgers if they are in it and you can bet your butt the Cubs if they are in it will be willing to make moves). So bottom line, I could see this deadline being one where you have a number of teams willing to give up stuff for a commodity and when you get multiple suitors the price will sore. Again I'm dealing in hypotheticals and you guys may be completely right. Either way I know worse case (for the most part, unless OC puts up a Uribe like season) the Sox have 2 #1 picks.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 06:03 PM) We're getting into the semantics of what an A prospect is, but no, I don't think Jon Garland would net the Sox an A prospect. I consider an A prospect to be one of the top 20 (or so -- this is admittedly a rather arbitrary number) prospects in all of baseball -- could Garland have netted a Justin Upton, a Phillip Hughes, a Clay Buccholz? I'm sorry, but there's no way Garland could net someone like that. And now we're talking about dealing a player at the deadline. So some team is going to give up six years of an A prospect for two months of Orlando Cabrera? Even if I am underselling Cabrera a bit, there's not a snowball's chance in hell the Sox get an A prospect for two months of The OC. I consider an A prospect a top 50 prospect. No, he couldn't get a Juston Upton, Phillip Hughes or Clay Bucholtz but last I looked those are top 10 prospects. I've never said Jon would get you the best prospect in all of baseball of one of the best prospects in all of baseball. However, he could get one top 50 and one top 150 prospect. That doesn't necessarily mean Kenny goes after that as we've all seen how he identifies guys he likes and than gets those guys, not necessarily who BA says are the best in a system (whether right or wrong it is his mo). Here's one thing to take into play. Think about what Bureau has said about DSL. The Sox brass must all feel similarly about him as a reliever and if that is what the people close in the org are telling Kenny, don't you think he considers it a no brainer to move a guy that they think is a top notch set up guy (still 3 years away) if it means getting an all star outfielder (and I think Swish will be a perennial all star in Chicago, but I think very very highly of him). I think people underestimate how much your offense takes a hit from playing in Oaktown. Really if we are going to cringe about giving anyone up it should probably be Sweeney (based on the Sox selling low on him) or Gio (since he is more likely to help now and has 3 solid pitches which makes him more projectable in the rotations). I've long said the thing that scares the hell out of me is the Sox rotation, but it was awful last year and I won't deny that Danks/Floyd have talent (afterall they were both at one point A prospects basically by your definition..ie top 20 guys).

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 06:02 PM) Are we talking about at the deadline? That's what I thought was the time frame. I think Cabrera could get a prospect like Gio now, but at the deadline at best we'd get a couple of Sweeneys. Garland would fetch more at the deadline purely due to everyone looking for pitching while there will only be a select few teams looking for a SS. Deep down I wouldn't be shocked if the Sox are out at the deadline that the ANgels end up a calling and reacquire OC for prospects. You may be right, you may not be, but while this past trade deadline teams were a bit more careful when it came to giving up prospects but no one can say that will be the case this deadline. Hell, there are times that a player fetches more at the deadline than he would the off-season before simply because you end up having more teams bidding on a player at one time. Say Swisher was openly on the market, you can bet your ass the A's would end up getting more for him than they did today. In fact, I am openly saying that year from now if the Sox wanted to put him on the market they could do better than what the Sox gave up.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 09:16 PM) Just a couple of quick points; 1 - He seems to be slurping the work of Duane Shaffer quite a bit. I'd look more at his record in the draft over the past 10 years or so, and you can't say we've really had many impact players there. It was time for a change, world series win or not. 2 - Rogers needed to look past the .230 averages of Richar and Quentin. Quentin has been injured constantly and when healthy has raked. Richar has a small sample size, and showed enough plate disicipline to suggest if he can raise his average to say .260/.270, he will be a valuable asset. 3 - I like Gio, but even I think he's overrating him there. #2 starter would be the absolute pinnacle for him. 4 - Right now, I'd be very surprised if Sweeney was able to show the same type of power Swisher has over the next 5 years or so. It is funny that Rogers is willing to throw out stats as to how poor Richar/Quentin are (based on major league production) yet ignores the fact that Sweeney has done nothing over the course of his major league games. Plus, I see nothing about how Quentin in his first taste did more than Sweeney ever could have imagined and that a lot of his struggles appear to be due to an injury. I also think he's truly slurping DSL a little early, than again, he did the same with Anderson Gomes and Salvardo Sanchez (Sanchez was the next Juan Gonzalez). I think Rogers is a little over attached to the minor league prospects and I respect that because I think you are either sucessful by being super over protective (and trading no prospects) or taking the opposite approach and being willing to sell any of your prospects at a high level (because over the long haul, by doing so, you will get a major return with only few guys panning out, however if you only do it every once in a while you may end up getting bite in the ass a lot more just based on the odds potentially not evening out).

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 05:42 PM) Judging by what Swisher got and considering he's under contract for 4 years plus an option at a very low level, there is no way you get an A prospect for Cabrera. Maybe a couple of B prospects, maybe. Would Jon Garland have gotten the Sox an A prospect, I think so. Therefor, I think OC does, considering there are many in baseball that believe the Sox got the better of the deal (which would mean his value is > Jon Garland's).

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 05:40 PM) I still want to see how Richar does. I think he's got the potential to give you an OPS over .800 with good plate discipline. My thinking was, acquire Figgins for CF (and to play elsewhere), and use Swisher at 1B (and have him rotate at other OF spots where necessary). Kendrick could always play at 1B as well though. I would be trying to get the best possible talents and Kendrick is a ridiculous talent. Richar is a major if. I think he either really pans out or he ends up being total s***. Kendrick is going to be good to be anywhere from being good to being one of the best 2nd baseman in baseball history (that is how good of a hitter he is, plus 2nd base is historically a weak position when it comes to offense).

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 05:33 PM) If we were to go on percentages, they're better bets than the Sox are, that's for sure. You keep bringing up Crede... why? If Crede's at third that means Fields is in AAA, and Fields playing but one more game in AAA would be terrible. He has nothing left to do down there. If you stick Fields in left, that means the Quentin trade was utterly pointless, as he -- like Fields -- has nothing left to do in AAA. You also keep bringing up Cabrera, like he'd bring in an absolute haul at the deadline. I got news for you... Cabrera wouldn't bring back anything more than one B prospect (or a couple of even lesser prospects). Teams aren't going to give up top prospects for an average-ish player who you're only going to have for two months. That's really not my problem. It was stupid for Kenny to make that promise -- when thinking about the long-term health of this franchise, saying "we're going for broke in 2008" is stupid as hell. I don't have to defend what Kenny said to JD or MB, especially if I don't agree with it in the slightest. Keith, you are undervaluing Cabrera. He is not an averagish shortstop. As a whole he is an average offensive player, but all the other things he does, including the fact that he does it from shortstop makes him an above average player. I'm not going to say the Sox are going to get a boatload of prospects for him but they shouldn't deal him unless they got an A and B prospect, especially given the fact that if they hold onto him they should (barring some sort of a disaster of a season from OC) get 2 picks for him when he signs elsewhere.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 05:27 PM) You're funny. I didn't say they would do it, but that is what I'd open the bidding at. I also don't think the Angels are going to be serious players for Konerko anymore, not after they made the moves they did. The only way the Angels would start dealing for a bat at 1st would be if they were able to unload one of there high priced outfielders and I highly doubt the Angels are going to take Garret Anderson or Sarge Jr off the Halos hands (unless of course the Angels). However, If the Sox were to deal Konerko I'd happily take Juan Rivera (with Crede entering the discussion if the Angels really wanted him) and pencil him in CF with Swisher moving to 1b. Obviously I'd like Willets too (I think his year was a fluke but I'd take my chances on him if he didn't cost a ton, but the Angels would probably move Rivera to get rid of his 4-5M contract, not that it is a ton of money, but it is more than Willits makes). If the Angels didn't want to give Adenhart, I would ask for Saunders & Santana in a deal (plus a good position player/prospect). Or I would accept Weaver and a position player/prospect (if the Angels preferred to hold onto Adenhart).

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 05:22 PM) I also think Lance has some potential and is certainly now among the best or the best pitching prospect. He still can improve, but I did like his Sept start against the Royals (it was one of the few games that I watched after July), But I had the sense that a lot of people were down on him, though he may have just been in the shadow of DLS, Gio, and co. We can only hope that as Buerhle came through in the shadows of Kip Wells, Jon Garland (who panned out), Aaron Myette, Matt Ginter, and Lorenzo Barcelo....that Lance Broadway can do the same (outplaying Gio/DSL/etc).

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 05:16 PM) Figgins and Adenhart would be the 2 main pieces I'd target in a Konerko deal. Maybe a swap of Rivera and Crede could be something that could be looked at as well. But we do have plenty of options here, even though anything is unlikely to happen. Howie Kendrick and Adenhart.

I saw the Kingdom last night and damn did it freaking rock.

I think we can safely say that barring a move that puts Swisher at 1st, we can put an end to any Crisp rumors.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 04:15 PM) Not to pick on you here, but it seemed that the Soxtalk concensus a few months ago was that Broadway was never going to be anything special. Is the next Soxtalk trend going to be building Broadway as the next savior of the White Sox. Don't pencil me in that group, I really like Broadway and have said as much publicly. I think he is going to surprise a lot of people but I sure as hell haven't seen many people aside from myself and a couple others say much anything positive about Lance.

I got to be honest, at this point, unless it is coming from Levine or it is a press release odds are I don't buy into the rumors I hear surrounding the Sox anymore. Kenny keeps things pretty tight for the most part and I'm guessing that is why we never hear anything about the deals that actually happen where as the deals that don't happen are probably semi intentional leaks that happen after the fact (with the exception of what went down at the winter meetings).

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 01:05 PM) Just an exercise...no particular order implied here. Cabrera - 8 home runs Swisher - 25 home runs Thome - 40 home runs Konerko - 30 home runs Dye - 30 home runs Fields - 30 home runs Pierzynski - 10 home runs Quentin - 25 home runs? Richar - 10 home runs Being pretty conservative overall except assuming a full season for Thome...That right there would come to 208 home runs. 25Hr's for Quentin may be pushing it a bit. I think he's capable of doing that, but even at his peak I don't see him as much more than 30 HR guy. I'd probably push more towards 17-20 HR's in the CY. However, I think on other guys you were relatively conservative.