Chisoxfn

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 8, 2007 -> 11:23 AM) There were people talking about sending Buerhle to the cubs. Yikes. The only thing worse from a PR standpoint from not signing a guy to a below market deal, would be to send them to the cubs and help them in their playoff endeavors. Dye for Murton and a prospect. I am all over that though. Oops...just saw you added this part so ignore my post above Do you guys think they would consider Dye/MacDougall for Murton, Cedeno and Jones?

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 8, 2007 -> 11:23 AM) There were people talking about sending Buerhle to the cubs. Yikes. The only thing worse from a PR standpoint from not signing a guy to a below market deal, would be to send them to the cubs and help them in their playoff endeavors. I don't get it. The org should be getting the best talent available and these are two talented individuals (Cedeno and Murton) who the Sox could get for Dye that could actually fit into the Sox plans for the next 5 years. Plus you get Jacque Jones who isn't a bad guy to have around as he is a very versatile outfielder who is much better (even with his awful season this year) than either Erstad or Pods. Lets not act like Dye could get us a #1 prospect from anyone. He could have in April, maybe May, but the fact is you aren't going to get a high impact guy that doesn't have some baggage and the Cubs happen to have a couple guys that may not be high impact but they both fill the clubs two biggest needs (Cedeno with speed and middle infield presence, although he is not a great base stealer; Murton filling the OF which has been absolutely horrendous).

Rogers suggests that the White Sox consider a deal with the Cubs which would send Jermaine Dye to the Cubs for Jacque Jones and a prospect (the prospect being one of Jake Fox, OF; Matt Murton, OF; Ronny Cedeno, SS; Eric Patterson, 2B). I'd be intrigued with a package that could bring you Jones, Cedeno, and Murton with the Sox giving up Jermaine Dye and a reliever. Cedeno is a guy that is a pretty darn good defensive shortstop and I know a couple others have talked him up here. But he's also made a lot of strides down in AAA where he's hitting over .380. Most importantly he's made some strides with his walk rate as well as drastically cut down his strikeout numbers. Plus while he had a horrible OBP and a lot of strikeouts in his major league debut he also hit at least .245 which isn't terrible for a first go round (and he's only 24 years old right now). The only concern I could see with Cedeno is that this is a guy that really came out of nowhere in 2004 and since than he's just gotten better and better with the stick. If the Sox instead opted for Patterson they would be getting a guy with a bit more top end speed but he also plays 2nd and it seems as if the Sox are going to give Richar a chance (Richar is a very good athlete, much like Patterson). Than there is Matt Murton. This is a guy that posted an .809 OPS in his first full season with the Cubs (last year) and in 51 games in 2005 he did an even better job posting a .907 OPS. He doesn't have strikeout issues and has a pretty good eye and is still just 25 years old. The Cubs have written him off for whatever reason (but Lou Pinella has done that with guys in the past) and while he isn't the strongest defensive left fielder it would give the Sox a guy that they could potentially pencil into left for the next 4 to 6 years without any problems. He also would be a change of pace from the typical power hitters the club have as Murton has average speed (and can go 1st to 3rd no problem) and can use all parts of the field (he isn't a major power threat and at his best may hit 20 HR's but I think you'd project him to be more of a 12-16 type of guy). It appears the Cubs have potentially given up on both of these guys and both could come in and be starters for the remainder of the season. Cedeno is the more risky bet while Murton may not have a ridiculous upside but he will be a solid major leaguer for a long time. Plus you get Jacque Jones and this is kind of the trade-off since you are taking on a bad contract from the Cubs. However, Jones isn't even close to being done and while some under-rate him (at least on Soxtalk) others over-rate him (myself) but he would be able to come in and play all 3 outfield positions and hit for some good power at the cell. No an outfield of Jones/Murton/FA wouldn't be the best but it would be significant upgrade from the production you had this year (and you would be able to give Ryan Sweeney or whomever else was acquired via trade plenty of playing time in the mix) with them becoming full time starters whenever Jones is moved (and if Jones plays well, you could be able to get something of value for him sometime next year). The only question is would MacDougall and Dye be enough for the Cubs to make this deal (this is about the only way they can get rid of Jones without sending cash along, imo) or would the Sox have to include another part (which I'd be happy to do) as the club could potentially be getting two long term starters and a stop gap for next year.

QUOTE(WhiteSoxfan1986 @ Jul 7, 2007 -> 11:59 PM) The only thing that would make this season worse is if we were to trade for Elijah Dukes. It would at least make things entertaining. We would be waiting for a police raid on the field as he gets taken away in handcuffs.

My problem is the fact that Ken Williams is just so god damn arrogant and it rubs me the wrong way (and that is coming from me, who can be a pretty arrogant prick). I like having a cocky GM, but he almost just throws his cockiness on everyone and is always opening his mouth about something or another. Had he just kept his mouth shut a lot more he wouldn't have put himself in this position (but he told us how he was going to out smart the entire baseball world and now he's really putting himself into a hole). And I usually like his firesome attitude (at least in terms of player personell moves) but after winning the series he is just getting more and more out there and its as if he's trying to one up himself and pull off some miracle of a retooling/rebuilding job.

QUOTE(ROC Sox Fan @ Jul 7, 2007 -> 10:15 PM) Will Buehrle jerseys cost more or less after he is traded? I want one, but am thinking demand may actually go UP when he is traded instead of them going on the clearance rack. They always find there way to the clearance rack.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jul 7, 2007 -> 06:28 PM) The Sox continue to dig themselves in a terrible, terrible hole. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2929267 This is the lowest I've ever thought of the Sox organization. They claim to reward there own but if they were never interested in coming to terms with Mark than why even bother negotiating with him. Why not just tell him he's not in the clubs plans. Doesn't Mark deserve at least that as opposed to him and his life getting completely dicked around for the past two weeks as the Sox put together meaningless negotiations. Sure this deal could turn out fine for the Sox but the way they handled this situation embarrasses me as a fan. This ranks right there with the complete embarrassment that was the White Flag trade (and while that deal worked out talent wise, it is still one of the most embarrassing moments in this teams franchise and to a point baseball history). So Kenny, as one of your biggest supporters I just want to say f*** you for continuing to be classless with the way you handle the organizations own. Please prove me wrong, but I'm sure you won't. QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 7, 2007 -> 07:48 PM) I don't get your point......Konerko had a really good year last year and is now on his way to have a really good year again this year. Buehrle is 28 and has a 3 even ERA at the all star break. Our problem isn't paying really good players a lot, our problem is we have a ton of payroll spent on useless crap. To say Konerko has been a bum this year.....wow. So would I, but we won't. And if the org wanted to move Konerko they could and they would get an absolute ransom for him. Overpaid, bad contract...maybe a couple years ago when he's in his last year you could make that case but not right now.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 7, 2007 -> 10:33 AM) It seemed like he must have thrown 70 balls out of the strike zone off the outside corner against lefties. And after watching replays, that pitch he threw to Morneau was horrible. I saw that Ozzie commented that he liked his velocity yesterday....just how bad was it during ST then? He didn't top 92 mph yesterday, and he got very, very few swings and misses. I saw him get a lot of hitters behind and in ST Floyd was pitching as hard as 95-96 according to quite a few reputable posters here that were watching the games both on tv and at the spring training parks (now those guns could have been loose). I know I want to see him pitch the rest of the season up here and I'm not stupid enough to write him off after one start, even if it was a bad one.

I'm watching Floyd's start right now....that curve he threw on Morneu's homer was a pretty hard good curve. The only bad part you could say is it was in the middle, but the ball was down. Either way I try not to grade guys based on one outing but I have noticed he now has a fastball that he can get that kind of sinks down below the zone which should help him get a lot of ground balls. I just don't get why he's living on the outside of the plate so far in the game (I've only gotten through a couple innings).

Pissed me off cause I thought this was going to be the one where he got past Federer and won it all.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jul 6, 2007 -> 07:44 PM) the O-Dog would be great at 2B for us... Dukes, no thank you. Hudson and Nipper for Buehrle....just shoot me now. QUOTE(BearSox @ Jul 6, 2007 -> 11:09 PM) If we could get O-Dog from Jose straight up... where do I sign up? I could see Contreras for Hudson...that I could see. I still would prefer a prospect somewhere in that deal but I could definitely live with it. I'd be stoked if we could do Jose and Iguchi for Hudson and Quentin.

Kenny may just make the moves before game 2 of the double header.

5 errors...yeah.

QUOTE(diegotony06 @ Jul 6, 2007 -> 01:57 PM) Reyes has been getting absolutely rocked this year. I don't want anything to do with him. But who knows, maybe Coop can fix him. Reyes is a horrible idea. Rasmus sure, but I really don't know what the hell else the Cards have to offer. There system is absolutely HORRID.

Josh Fields...yes.

QUOTE(Controlled Chaos @ Jul 6, 2007 -> 01:30 PM) This f***in blows!!!!!!! Whoah...if the Red Sox throw some cash the Sox way and the deal enables the club to get Bucholtz, Ellsburry or someone else plus Willy Mo than I'd bite at the deal. With the Sox obviously taking Julio Lugo as well and Boston getting Juan Uribe or Tadahito.

3 errros...yeah.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 6, 2007 -> 12:49 PM) Yeah you could debate whether he should have brought in Masset to face Kubel, as 8-4 is still reasonable and that Grand Slam seemed inevitable if Jon was left in, but this is on Jon realistically. If he just fields his position like usualy, it's only 7-4 right now too, as bad as he was. He was still horrid, but you are right...if he makes those plays it wouldn't have been as bad, just like if the defense stepped up earlier you may have had a run or two less. Still, in the end, Jon got hit hard. And the Twins are continuing to hit up even after Jon is out.

Well...Bulls get Noc back and I have absolutely no problem with that.

QUOTE(FlaSoxxJim @ Jul 6, 2007 -> 12:48 PM) You're right about Extra Innings (if only I could sell back all the cr@ppy games this year ), but I though you had to buy mlbtv by the month. That may be it, but I think thats only like 8 or 9 bucks a month which isn't horrible.

QUOTE(G&T @ Jul 6, 2007 -> 12:43 PM) Well that's fine, but I don't see why Ozzie should be blamed when Garland has a terrible outing and it's best to keep the pen ready for tonight's game with Floyd pitching. I never blamed Ozzie. I just said Jon didn't have it, plain and simple.

QUOTE(ChiSox_Sonix @ Jul 6, 2007 -> 12:41 PM) I hadnt heard anything about this. Could you expand at all on it? But, if true its not surprising b/c Jon and MB are very close and they pretty much have been in Chicago together most of their careers Its in the Tribune's blog but Buehrle didn't say it necessarily meant he was out the door...rather he doesn't know what will happen and he wanted to get things cleaned out just in case.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Jul 6, 2007 -> 12:39 PM) I am planning on seeing whether our cable company here lets you pay for one game in the MLB Extra Innings They won't. YOu can just buy one game on mlb.tv though. Or at least I think you can.

QUOTE(G&T @ Jul 6, 2007 -> 12:35 PM) No, Garland needed to have a good outing in case Floyd sucks tonight. Masset should have been saved to back him up but that obviously won't happen. Hawk did need to shut up, he was saying how this is a bigger series for the Sox than the Twins. Thats just BS, because the Twins are actually playing for something. The only series this is big for on the Sox is the guys that are potentially going to get dealt and the youngsters because I want the youngsters to play well and the guys that are about to be traded to play as good as possible to increase trade value.

QUOTE(joesaiditstrue @ Jul 6, 2007 -> 12:32 PM) i hope this post doesn't go unnoticed, as i'm really curious what is wrong with jon today? seriously is he tipping his pitches as well as simply not getting his other pitches over for strikes? something is clearly different today Just not his day. When you rely on control and mixing your pitches you are going to have those days where you just get smacked around. It happens more so with sinker type pitchers because they are taught to pitch to the contact and when they just don't have the command they are gonna be in trouble because they don't have the upper 90's stuff or the ridiculous hook to semi get away with things. Jon just has to forget about this one cause he's been superb all season long.