Chisoxfn

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 03:28 PM) Any trade I bring up that involves Buehrle comes with the automatic qualifier that the White Sox have tried but feel they will not be able to re-sign Mark. I want Buehrle re-signed and if it took a 5 year, $15M contract to get it done I'm all for it but if the Sox feel they will not be able to lock him up then I'd be all for trading him for the best deal out there as opposed to picking up a few draft picks for him. Gotcha...I bite on that. I just think the Sox need to make sure if they move Buehrle they are getting some potential impact guys and guys that are able to stick around for a long time. What would the Yanks give up for a package involving Buehrle (could the Yanks get desperate enough to give up Phillip Hughes??). What about the Mets or potentially the Braves. I doubt the Dodgers/Pads/Angels would be interested in Buehrle though. And no, I don't think the Yanks would deal Hughes....but Melky Cabrerra and some of there other prospects could be an interesting package.

The Sox haven't spent a ton of money on draft picks so you can't really correlate the money to the farm system. The Angels on the other hand spend an absolute fortune on draft picks and other guys and because of it have a fantastic system. Albeit, they also have done a good job developing and scouting.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 03:07 PM) The problem is the Brewers would have little chance or desire to match what Buehrle gets on the open market after 07', so they likely are looking at him as a two-month rental. Hard to justify trading Weeks for a rent-a-player (even Buehrle) when your franchise is just starting to build upon all its young players. That said, were they they to believe they have a chance at the postseason.... Believe me, if Gallardo was possible, I'd be all over it...but I am certain he's untouchable. Weeks, on the other hand... Ya, I wouldn't expect the Brewers to make such a move, but they may just be serious about winning things now (although I think they would be smarter making a smaller move and not forcing the issue, because if they play things right they should be good for a real long time).

I think the Cards could consider this sort of deal if they were willing to swing other guys to get the prospects necessary to make the deal. Because on there own, they don't have the upper echelon prospects I'd be interested in if the club was giving up a pitcher of Buehrle's caliber. Special pitchers command special prospects (and multiple ones at that in return). Corey Rasmus is a good starting point, but they need to package it around 2-3 more good prospects. I would however, potentially bite on a Molina, Rasmus, Waingright type of deal for Buehrle. Molina is the catcher of the present and future. I think he's a bit over-rated, but he's a very good athlete with a strong arm and his bat has improved (not much of a power hitter though). This also allows the club to move AJ for prospects and gets the club a lot younger at this position (I also think Hall is a very solid platoon guy to go with Molina). Wainwright is now pitching in the rotation, gets good sink IIRC, and had a very successful first full season out of the pen last season. He has struggled in the rotation and I think that is because he may not have enough pitches to succeed as a starter (but overall he gets good life on his stuff). Rasmus, for those that don't know, is probably the Cards #1 prospect and is considered a 5 tool outfielder. He has shown a ton of patience in the minors and has decent speed and is supposed to be a pretty darn good defensive outfielder with 20-30 HR power. He is 21 and has hit 10 (22 doubles) HR's thus far in the Texas league.

I don't think I'd trade Buehrle for Weeks. Starting pitchers like Buehrle don't grow on trees and Weeks is no sure fire thing. I realize some people aren't as huge of Buehrle fans as me, but he's got insane value. He'd easily get 15 or so per year over 5 years on the open market and I'd imagine you could get the two best prospects at a minimum for him.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 01:47 PM) I think....and hope....he meant in our minor league system. Ya, I was specifically talking about our system. QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 01:47 PM) I think....and hope....he meant in our minor league system. Ya, I was specifically talking about our system.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 12:18 PM) Thank you. Floyd has actually pitched very well recently. Let's not write the guy off as a bust just yet. The kid is all of a whopping 24 years old right now. He also has the best stuff in the minors and that is based on multiple reports I've gotten as well as another member here has gotten.

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 10:03 AM) No. It was to ref Mike's comment about Sox fans being bandwagoneers. My comments in green are my serious opinions. I'm not surprised you'd agree. Everyone on that coast is fake. No, I agree with the comments you made (not the green sarcasm color). I think they were dead on.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 10:16 AM) I doubt they would be mentioning additional charges and toxicology tests in the case of a professional athlete unless they had a reason to be suspicious of him. Those kind of things aren't mentioned in most accidents. Based on what I know from a friend that was completely sober and involved in a similar type of accident (with a fatality involved), it is standard procedure to put them through all those sort of tests and wait till the results are back. It is just in this case it is an athlete so it was mentioned.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 10:13 AM) And this is the exact type of reason that John Paxson wanted nothing to do with Smith. Cause he ran a stop sign and got in a car accident? That happens and so far I haven't seen them indicate any wrong doing of Smith. Now if he was boozing or something I'd quickly retract that statement but I feel very sorry for Smith.

Don't get me wrong, this team is capable of winning, but to win it is going to have to make some adjustments to wake this thing up and Jermaine Dye is the type of move that could bring in some serious athlete's and fast.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 09:59 AM) But even then in that little statement you just made, you are telling the fans you are quitting. A statement like that doesn't say we want to get better for 2008, it says that we are quitting and this one player deserves better than to stay here. That perception is very important, I cannot stress that enough. Who cares, Dye isn't playing good. You aren't saying your quitting, you are saying what is going on isn't working. If the club doesn't make moves it has the potential to suck for the next 5 to 10. If it makes the right moves it could either spark itself and give it a shot for the second half or at least give it a shot to compete in the next couple years.

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 09:56 AM) It's amazing...we won the 2005 World Series with a team that was playing above it's respective heads and was incredibly lucky. That luck has changed...dramatically. Who would have thought that this team would be hitting so poorly? Who would have thought the bullpen would have blown up to this extent? How about this injury bug (and don't give me the Erstad, Pods crap, Dye was considered an "injury risk" too when he came here and that worked out ok). I don't know if you can trade people just to change luck. This team is pressing. And trade talk certainly doesn't help that. If something comes along that helps the team, I say do it. But until then, try to win with the team that brung ya. JMHO...fire away. The 05 Sox were not lucky. They were a fantastic defensive team, with a solid offense that could manufacture runs and a studly pitching staff and pen. It was one of the more dominant teams in the recent era when you factor in all the strenghts that club had (albeit I know a lot of people whined about the offense because it wasn't one that would put up 10 plus runs a ton but it did consistently get the runs necessary). Obvioulsy people will say the club was lucky based on the number of one run games it won, but that was because the bullpen was stellar, the defense was good, and the team could get a run off a leadoff walk because they had a guy like Pods that could snag extra bases.

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 09:45 AM) I'm ok with that. I do not agree with this at all. Those that spend the money are smart, knowledgeable, and passionate fans who despite not spending the money, if that's what they choose, still follow the team religiously. Those jumping off cliffs and throwing in the towl at the first sign of struggles and/or rebuilding are the bandwagoneers, IMO, of course. Maybe, maybe not. Still, doing what he did was bulls*** and the players let him know in the form or t-shirts they wore every day in the clubhouse and under their uniforms for the remainder of the season which read "we just might be dumb enough to win this". He has yet to make another mistake of that magnitude. Is that in green for sarcasm cause I totally agree with your post Steff. I also think it is ludicrious to sit here and not make some sort of moves. Plus, Kenny worrying about what Ozzie does is a bit different because if Ozzie does too much he gets fired and gives the Sox a horrific perception, but when it comes to the day to day baseball operations you can't focus too much on what the fans think (and I really shouldn't say fans...rather the casual fans, because I think most of more intelligent baseball fans will realize moves need to be made and this "offense" needs to get younger and quick). I do disagree with a couple people when it comes to the farm system, I think Sweeney and Fields are keepers (I never thought I'd say that about Fields) while I could give two craps about BA and I doubt BA will be around past the trade deadline. Right now, I'd strongly consider moving Dye now. Dye could bring in some young talent and energy. See if that can make a difference (try to acquire a front line starting prospect and a front line outfield prospect). Than at that point you could hold off making additional moves. I'd hold onto MacDougall (unless we get a stellar offer because he has a fantastic arm and is signed to a very good deal, same goes for Aardsma as I still think both have good futures at the major league level). You could than take a holding pattern after moving Dye and than if things still don't improve, I'd turn to the next level which would be trying to move Iguchi (unless of course we think he's going to be a Type A compensation as I think we'd get a lot more value with the draft picks than what the club would get via trade). I'd also think you have to consider moving AJ if in one of the deals the team acquired a very good young catching prospect ready to share time with Toby Hall (I think AJ would have a good deal of value on the market to the right team, potentially a club like the Angels, although Mike Napoli has started to hit). I think it is important to get a catcher that can actually throw runners out (I also have no problem if the club holds onto AJ). AJ, Iguchi, Dye can all be moved, imo. Podsednik if he comes back healthy and does something could still help a contender looking for a spark at the top of the order. You move him simply to open up another spot, same could potentially be done for Erstad (both of those guys are gone at the end of the year so why not give it a shot and see if you could get some lower level prospects for them). Yes...that leaves a lot of holes, but I'd imagine the club would be able to acquire some things and could still buy other parts (parts that it feels will be valuable for the next couple of years) and you also have to remember you still have a rotation of Garland, Buehrle, Vazquez, Danks and Contreras (I'd hope they could get Contreras and be able to convince him of a trade) which means this team still contends next season (its just a matter of getting time to evaluate guys this season). So I sell AJ, Iguchi, Dye and potentially one of Buehrle/Contreras (perfect case has you convincing Contreras of a deal and yes a contender would be all over that, while you than offer Buehrle a fat contract). I than buy on an outfielder or two (using prospects not named Gio, Sweeney, Fields rather guys like McCulloch, Broadway, etc). Even if Mark gets a 4 million dollar raise from last season, you've cut salary in AJ (4-5 mill, Iguchi 4 mill or so, Dye 7.5 mill or so, Pods 2 mill or so, Contreras (10 or so), Erstad (saving his option from next year).

He's light years better than a lot of those guys and would be a real nice role player in the lower part of the order. However, I would admit that he's slowing down a bit. Still, I'd have no problem picking up Ichiro or another name, plus adding a guy like Jones and than giving someone like Sweeney the other spot.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 09:33 AM) Jose continues to have a full no trade clause this season. Ya, I realize that...but what if you come to him and say we are going to move you in the off-season, but we think there are more suitors now and we will do our best to get you into a place you want to play. Basically put if we can trade him now, he'd have a lot more control of his destination and I think Kenny could potentially get him to buy off on waiving that clause.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 08:11 AM) You don't think that the Chicago writers will spin the Sox trading two marque players into a White flag scenario? There is a group of writers that will torch the Sox as soon as any deal is done, especially if it is done this early. If you don't make moves because you are afraid of what the writers or fans will think than you have failed and should be immediately fired. The media and fans did a lot of ripping of the Sox in the 05 off-season (I sure didn't) and the end result was a team winning the series.

Now is the time to make the moves. The team is doing horrible, so worse case your moves spark things and create some energy and life. I still hold off on Buehrle if Kenny and the Sox are actually willing to sign him long term. I would try to talk with Contreras and move him though. Plus think of it this way, what better way to sell a firesale than by moving Dye and Contreras yet in the process giving Buehrle a 5 year deal worth a minimum of 70 million.

QUOTE(shipps @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 08:56 PM) Sometimes I am such a hypochondriac I swear I assume the worst with every little twinge that I feel.Is there many others like this?I dont even go to the doctor which makes it even more absurd. Who'd have figured Mario would be the tough guy and you the sis.

QUOTE(FlaSoxxJim @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 05:49 PM) I didn't know you and Paris dated. Why else would he have gotten that summer job. He had to pay for that clymedia (CLAP) medication somehow. Note: Even still i'm jealous Alex...jealous

QUOTE(shipps @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 08:50 PM) Sorry guys but Knocked up was far from hilarious you guys dissappointed me with the reviews that are usually reliable.But I did enjoy it in a little wussy kinda way. You a wuss....DUH.

QUOTE(3E8 @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 08:07 PM) Did they push the release up a week? I thought it was 6/19.. I'm just a little ahead of myself...your right, comes out next week. I really dig the single they released. Been playing a lot of my old school Chili Peppers lately...I forgot just how amazing Flea is.

Is Oceans 13 worth seeing? Did anyone see it? QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 11:46 AM) Enjoyed Ocean 13. Ellen Barkin has a very scary boob job. Whoops...I should have read before making this post. Was it better than the 2nd one (wasn't much of a fan than the second one).

I don't think I hated it...I liked it a lot but love is a bit wrong. I loved the episode before...but this episode was pretty fantastic as well.

Wow...pathetic.