Chisoxfn

QUOTE(29thandPoplar @ Jun 18, 2007 -> 07:17 PM) I'm not sure why it's a surprise they're doing nothing for now. I too wish they would do something. They have expressed faith in this group all along and it is not a surprise they want to see what a full lineup would do together vs. below .500 teams up to the ASB (except Minn. right before). Not suggesting their approach is correct. But they have said the same mantra all along. Then again it all depends how one defines doing nothing. GM's and asst. GM's and scouts dont just turn off their phones. Williams has a well known rep for being aggressive and its for a reason. That he is not consumating trades at the moment doesn't necessarily equate with doing nothing. Even a small move like the addition of the Arizona farmhand indicates they are, at the very least, planning. After the ASB there are 19 days til the deadline. Plenty of time to get things done. You run the risk of course of something happening to your tradeable players but it can go the other way too (more frenzied market). This is one of the things that makes this sport great. Fantastic post.

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Jun 18, 2007 -> 04:33 PM) What a f***in game so far f***ing garbage, UCI guy leans into the pitch and it grazes his jersey What a tough way to lose. Titans had enough opportunities though and they couldn't take advantage of it. I'll be pulling for the Anteaters to make some noise and make the big west proud.

Ya, the Angels are really regretting that pick up. I boo his ass every game I attend and will be doing so again on Wednesday.

Come on Titans. Find a way to win this thing. Game is now headed into the Bottom of the 13th (UCI is batting).

Geeze...there is barely anyone out there that is less than 30. Hell, after looking at that list, I'm even more convinced this squad needs to deal some of its older veterans to get star young prospects and let those guys develop and than go out and sign some other aging veterans on to fill some holes (guys like Shawn Green to one year deals, maybe go after a guy like Luis Castillo for one of the top spots in the lineup..and than obviously make a push for one of the big name centerfielders). Would you guys be opposed to moving Dye, Contreras and/or Buehrle, Iguchi, and another player or two (AJ or Thome) if it enabled the Sox to get some young position players and starting pitchers (one being a SS for sure). Than with the money saved in the various trades (probably also move Pods/Erstad/Uribe in smaller deals, although I'd probably hold off on Uribe) sign one of Ichiro/Hunter/Jones plus Shawn Green (with Sweeney taking the other outfield spot and than another young player that may have been acquired subbing in and getting Ab's as well). Than you sign Luis Castillo at 2B with one of the middle infield prospects playing SS and obviously Konerko at first and Josh Fields at 3rd (Crede would get ab's eventually once healthy, but only with a plan of dealing him off for additional prospects and cash savings). Yes, it would be old, but at the same time you are getting guys that would likely sign short term deals (sans the Ichiro/Hunter/Jones talk) and would help fill a lineup (but you'd also have young players being meshed in, plus a young rotation). Ichiro Castillo Thome (Prefer to trade him myself) Konerko Green Fields (YOUNG PLAYER) AJP Sweeney (YOUNG PLAYER) SS Prospect (YOUNG PLAYER) Again, pretty rough draft idea, but I would have no problem targeting some of the names I mentioned during Free Agency.

Count me in. Buy Low (if the Cubs are really kind of giving up on him).

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 18, 2007 -> 08:47 AM) "We just might be dumb enough to win this thing". Embarrassed would be a better word to describe upper mgmt's feelings rather than pissed. Jerry apologized on the charter before it took off from John Wayne. A Sox staffer had them printed. I remember they were playing the Angels when that deal was made and I cursed up a storm before the game and actually rooted for the Angels. It was the only time I ever recall rooting against the White Sox.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 09:45 PM) Dye and Contreras for Betemit, Billingsley and Clayton Kershaw. Kershaw is now the Dodgers top rated pitching spect with Elbert having surgery. LHP, has a 7-2, 1.89 ERA record. He has given up 1HR in 62IP (that's Eggy like), and has a 82/33 K/BB ratio. This saves you about $15M in salary, and you use that money to re-sign Buehrle. But if you can't use Contreras, substitute Buehrle, and also ask for Chin Lung Hu to be included into the deal. Nah, you got to package Contreras in that deal. I wouldn't package Buehrle in a deal unless you are getting Betemeit, Ethier, Billingsley, Kershaw and Kemp (and no way do the Dodgers make that deal or at least I doubt they do). The key is, deal Contreras and Dye and than see what you can get for Iguchi, Uribe and whoever else in secondary deals (potentially Vazquez although I have no problem holding onto him, unless of course the Mets or some other team wow you with an offer). See if you get Thome to agree to a deal and talk with the Angels. Bottom line, reup with Buehrle, extend Garland....sign a few free agents but also use the money to re-up guys you do like and obviously spend some of it on scouting, etc.

I would absolutely be thrilled if the Sox could pull a Billingsley, Betemeit, additional Prospect (Loney or Ethier or another highly touted prospect) for Contreras, Dye and Brian Anderson (or if they want Iguchi they can have Iguchi) plus cash considerations (if necessary). Clearly the Sox may have to take some sort of contract off the Dodgers hands (or give the Dodgers cash and even then its a big if, unless Dye continues to really dominate and we get a couple fantastic starts out of Jose). Consider it one of my dream deals.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 07:40 PM) Betemit has played some short and from what I've read, he can hold his own at the position. At this point Richar just doesn't strike me as a starter caliber player especially for next season, more of an Ozuna type. Betemeit was initially a top rated shortstop in the Braves system. He continued to bulk up and was eventually moved to 3rd base. I think he projects more as a second baseman because he doesn't have the typical corner infielders power. However, he can still play 3rd and 2b and obviously SS in a pinch (albeit he wouldn't be near as good as Uribe over there defensively nor would I consider him average). That said I can't remember seeing him play SS too often so maybe he'd be better than I think he would be. I would love to get his bat though and I don't see why the Dodgers wouldn't give him up (the question is whether they'd part with Billingsley). I also don't think Betemeit has as much value as some indicate (via trade) and because of it if Colletti is at all down on Billingsley (which could be a possibility) you may be able to get a 3rd part to this deal (either way I'd be happy with those two guys).

The Sox can deal Jose without picking up any of his contract (pretty damn sure they could).

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 05:11 PM) It came off as sounding as you saying Jason doesn't know what he's talking about. That's all I was responding to. Of course I've been wrong and will continue to be wrong on certain things. ESPN commentators? You can't be serious? Yeah, that's why I like those Met prospects -- because ESPN has hyped them. No other reasons, really... By the way Keith, in regards to the point you have about Maine, Oliver Perez and El Duque. I just wanted to say that I think all three have had pretty impressive years (I know I was always for trying to pick up Oliver Perez to see if things could be corrected and he's doing fantastic for the Mets). However, there is no way I'm about to bank my chances on at least two of those guys in my post-season rotation (at least I'd prefer not to if possible and that is if Pedro proves to be his old self once returning...otherwise you are talking about three of them in the pen). Still, you are probably right and the Mets hold off to make any sort of moves (at least ones where they would have to give up a ransom of talent) until they get a better idea of Pedro.

Um...I don't get it. Billy Goat has nothing to do with baseball. A hitting coach has a s***load to do with baseball. Bottom line this offense and the bullpen have been horrendous. The offense has been bad all season while the pen actually was good for the first month of the season. Point being...with a better offense this team has quite a few more wins (same can be said about the pen) and well Greg Walker is the hitting coach so when a team is the worse in baseball (and possesses guys that have produced during large chunks of there major league careers) the blame is going to deservingly get pointed at the guy whose paid to teach and help work with the hitters (whether its his fault or not).

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 07:17 PM) Guillen has been right about every prospect he decided couldn't play. Anderson, McCarthy, and Sweeney have done absolutely nothing to prove Guillen was wrong. I don't think it's the major league coaching staff's fault that Sox prospects don't develop into impact major leaguers. Ummm...Guillen absolutely LOVES and I mean LOVES Ryan Sweeney so I don't know how you bundled him up with McCarthy and Anderson.

The Dodgers may be more interested. Loney got hurt in today's game (had to get carted off the field with a knee injury). It was only his 3rd start at the major league level in the outfield though.

If I can get time, I'll see if I can get something put together. The problem is time is not something I have too much of right now (at least not in terms of being able to work on the site...pretty focused on rolling out some interviews with some of the new draft picks).

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 04:48 PM) Those two bolded portions say it all, I think. I just hope KW doesn't wind up holding out for the world and winds up with nothing, like Bowden last summer. I've considered that I don't know what I'm talking about. And when I'm wrong, I admit I was wrong. Have you ever considered that you don't know what you're talking about, with whatever? Ya, I admit I'm wrong all the time, but I'm not debating his velocity because I"ve watched games and know what he throws. Whether he will have the command/mental fortitude to succeed at the major league level is another thing. And I'm not even going to go farther into your argument based on your discussions. My past record in regards to evaluating/discussing prospects and baseball is all I need to point to.

QUOTE(Brian @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 02:22 PM) 25, led off the 9th with an inside the parker. Yikes. Brewers come back and tie it off Nathan in the 9th. Holy crap...they were up like 6 or 7 runs earlier today (was watching the game for a bit).

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 04:24 PM) I just wish we could deal Buehrle then sign him in the offseason. That's my ideal scenario. No, he doesn't. Not anymore. His stuff isn't bad -- it's still good -- but it isn't what it used to be back in his glory days as a #1 draft pick. Gavin Floyd just isn't a good pitcher and he'll prove it. Listen...I'm going to make one thing clear. Unless you are watching the games down in Charlotte you should seriously shut the hell up when making radical assumptions. I have it on record from multiple people (some within the org...some outside of the org) as well as what I've seen with my own eyes (watching some of the games on the MILB.TV dealy) and his stuff is every bit as good as it was when he was one of the top ranked prospects in baseball (his command and tempo is improving and he's getting a more consistent release point and more importantly regaining his confidence). The curve he has been throwing is nasty and he has been consistently getting clocked into the mid 90's (good downward plane to the ball as well). Am I guaranteeing success no, but don't tell me about his stuff not being what it once was yada yada yada. You can say you don't think he'll be good, but this ridiculous he's a stiff and will suck for sure is pure bulls*** and I'm calling you out on it.

I know he didn't pitch, but I've heard some improving stuff on McCulloch. Sounds like he's been doing a lot better (stuff wise) as of late. Looks like Lance had a real good outing. I still think he's the type of guy you sell "high" in order to get a young middle infield prospect or outfielder in here. I really want to see Sweeney recalled and was glad to see Derek Rodriguez with a nice start (He's got a real nice arm and I think long term projects as a potential set up man...pretty good FB and slider IIRC).

QUOTE(aboz56 @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 01:50 PM) I can see both sides to the argument, but it's only really a problem if he doesn't stay inside the batter's box. If he wants to stand there and get hit, that's his prerogative. The way I see it, you hate him if he's on the other team, but you love him if he's on your team. Maybe he's got a little bit of Biggio in him.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 02:24 PM) Fixed. And yeah, I can't really dispute that. Let's just hope our GM doesn't make the same judgements based off of tiny sample sizes that you seem to be making. And I think those expectations are well out of whack. Again -- it's three months for Buehrle -- not three months plus the extension -- for a combined 18 years of those top prospects. If Minaya liked Buehrle enough, he could throw gobs of money at him this winter. I didn't respond to it because I didn't feel I needed to. I don't really give a damn about hype. I judge each prospect on their own merits, and I read and hear what other people think about these guys. I make my own judgements about whose opinion I'm going to 'respect' (for lack of a better term) -- for example, I'm not going to believe and listen to Steve Phillips if he tells me Lastings Milledge is going to be the best player to ever step on a baseball field. I like Milledge because he's a guy that both scouts and 'stat' guys like for his combination of tools and performance. I like Pelfrey because, well, it's hard not to like one of the top pitching prospects in baseball. Ditto Martinez. And since we seem to be getting into semantics here, here's what I initially said: I take 'bet' to mean if I offer $500 and, if the Sox don't get that package of players back, I'm getting $500 players back. But I understand that with me using the word "offer" in the next sentence, it's going to mean me just giving up $500 dollars. If it means me taking a hit to my manhood, though, for not giving up $500 dollars on something that I'm thinking one way and you're thinking another, then -- damnit -- I just don't know how I'm going to live the rest of my live. Might as well just pack it in, really... Throwing money at Buehrle this winter, doesn't help the Mets win the world series NOW. The whole point in making a deadline move is to help your team get to the series now and in doing so you have to sacrifice some of your future (sometimes the trade a team makes will also help them a couple years down the road). In this case it could (Buehrle goes to NY, likes the Mets, maybe stays there...either way they could give a crap if they think he's the guy that puts them over the top). QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 04:17 PM) I don't want to come off as a dick with a vendetta but the truth is that Floyd has no major league pitching future and if we make any deals with the idea that Floyd is a difference-maker for the rotation in future years we are going to be f***ed. The kid that makes everything possible is Billingsley for Dye. Wow....glad to know you know the future but I'd prefer not to write off the guy with the best arm in the Sox system (in fact he's got the best arm of any Sox starting pitcher not named Javier Vazquez).

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 03:15 PM) Oh, gross. -- This all goes back to Billingsley for Dye. I'd do that straight up. Makes it a lot easier to deal another starter and keep Buehrle and sign an OFer, too, preferably a good one (Ichiro, who pays for himself). We deal another starter for a hot prospect (Milledge?) and there you go. Re-stocked. A lot of guys have to go, though. Not just because it frees up money but because this team needs to be rebuilt. The Sox absolutely have to get a very good young outfield prospect or two depending on the trades that are made (I also think another middle infield prospect or two is a must as well). In Dye's case I'd take one good outfield or middle infield prospect plus a top notch starting pitching prospect (Billingsley clearly fits the bill and because of how good he was I may be willing to give some lee-way in terms of the other prospect, however, Dye should command a good package, especially if he could heat up....plus you know the Pads will be interested as well).

QUOTE(DonnyDevito @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 02:41 PM) maybe they noticed the white sox can't figure out their crap OF prospects (joe borchard, brian anderson, jerry owens, ect.) from their good ones (cunnigham, young, ect.) so they wanted to rip the white sox off just like they did last time. we can hype this SS up all day but i've heard all the hype in the world with borchard, mccarthy, ect. that's why they call chicago the windy city because chicagoans talk up their young prospects like they're the next coming when in reality they flop time and again. I Think that used to be the case but now I really think they under-value some to most of there prospects. That said, it is a fact that this team has little to nothing when it comes to high upside high impact prospects. Kenny made changes this year and you could flat out tell that they are getting a little more agressive to find higher impact guys (taking power arms with the hope of developing and honing the secondary stuff). QUOTE(Beastly @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 03:05 PM) We should have just kept Ray-Ray because he was exciting to watch and IMO, is still better than Iguchi. But maybe the times have changed. Speaking of which, can you see KW trading Iguchi to Anaheim or Seattle since he wants to play somewhere warmer? (Possibly closer to home?) Anaheim has a zillion various middle infielders so that would be a no (Aybar, Kendrick, Wood, Figgins, Cabrera, etc).

Fields is fun to watch and I can't call the loss pathetic based on the offense, rather based on the absolute stupid baserunning and defense. Nice play by Bay to rob Thome of the go ahead homer.