Chisoxfn

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 11:33 AM) If Thome had done anything but struck out, the Rally Seizure would have made an appearance. Thome was smoked on a bunch of changeups and now Pk pops out to Jorge

QUOTE(Soxy @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 11:31 AM) Jas, you just broke your own rule. I have suspend you for 5 days. I just realized that. Fixed

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 11:30 AM) You're strange. It's not helping Thome so far. He's due for a strike out regardless....but maybe he'll connect on an 0-2 count but I doubt it. Gooch and Pods like the new thread though. Come on Jim...good 2 strike hitta

Its time to stirr up some good mojo and the bad pitching ends here. Freddy should be done for the day, the Sox are down 4 in the 5th with 1 out and well its time for the Sox to create some new stir. Double Gooch with a squib infield single.

Time for a new game thread

5-2 now and Phillips scored with ease on a ball that I originally figured would be easy to nail Andy (so did DJ).

5-2 now and Phillips scored with ease on a ball that I originally figured would be easy to nail Andy (so did DJ).

Ya, the warning lights should be on. I'm really hoping Vazquez can turn things around to go with Count and Garland (I hope Garland keeps pitching like he has as of late cause it would be HUGE). That happens and I'll feel a lot better.

QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 11:13 AM) Was Posada running to the mound? Seriously, that was kind of funny. QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 11:15 AM) I don't think that's true. At the start of the season, the sp was pretty solid, but the pen was atrocious. Now it's reversed. Although I wish we could have kept the innings down for the rotation, at the time it didn't look wise. Ya, Ozzie has been openly critical of Freddy and I think right now they are just hoping they can find a rhythm and start feeding off of each other because at this point thats exactly what it is. These guys lack confidence and they aren't able to get in a groove. Thats a double by Andy Phillips with 2 outs.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 11:08 AM) If he really can still throw 94-95 and is just doing what he's doing because he thinks it works better, its time management steps in and shows him some numbers. I heard that once, but I really doubt its true. I think if he did have the ability to throw harder he would. In one start this year I saw him clocked into the low 90s and as hard as 93-94 and than in another start that I was at in person I also saw him in the low 90's. He quickly stopped though as he struggled, took off some speed and pitched better and than I remember him commenting for the umteenth time that he wanted to focus on his offspeed stuff.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 11:03 AM) Hawk and DJ keep talking about how Garcia has lost velocity on his fastball but they have yet to say why. Maybe we should email them and they'd tell us.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 11:00 AM) It's just another example of Guillen not learning from his mistakes. I've just given up on it. Since the start of the season I said Rob can't be anything more than a pinch hitter or a very ocassional starter to give BA a day off (especially against tough righties and no Jared Wright isn't that). Mack can get more starts at another position but he hurts us too much in the field in CF. Its not Rob's fault, its our manager's for putting Mack in a position where he can't possibly succeed.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:58 AM) But from everything that's been written, Beane considers Milledge "front line stuff". So how is it Freddy is going to leapfrog Zito? If they deal Zito, your right he's better thats one guy. There are more than 1 team trying to "buy" though and with him being hte one guy better than Freddy, that tells me the Sox would have almost all the leverage in the world. And I'm not convinced Beane is going to deal Zito especially with the A's in a tight race and the Angels starting to make some noise. Not to mention the Angels are going to land a bat, its inevitable.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:57 AM) ROB MACKOWIAK IS COSTING THIS TEAM GAMES IN CENTERFIELD! Thats been obvious, but I've gotten tired of seeing our manager dick around with our combo. With our pitching sucking ass it becomes more important to make sure our team can field imo. We have enough bats in this lineup.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:54 AM) I wouldn't count out Schmidt, nor Zito, especially if Harden makes some progress in his recovery. Smoltz could be moved. Then you have to lump Freddy in with the 2nd tier guys, Livan Hernandez, Jon Lieber, Tony Armas. So if all the top tier guys are called untouchable, and all the teams owning the 2nd tier guys demand the very best prospects, then you could perhaps command that price for Freddy. I just don't see that happening. Livan, Lieber and Armas aren't near as valuable as Freddy. Although the first two when on are total horses, not the greatest pitchers but definately solid. Armas has a ridiculous injury history. A's aren't about to deal Zito unless they are getting front line stuff in return and there is no way the Giants are moving Schmidt unless they fall out of contention. Plus I Think the Giants are planning on doing what they can to resign Jason.

QUOTE(illinilaw08 @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:53 AM) I would in a heartbeat. Freddy has 10 wins this year and a decent WHIP even though his ERA is high. Yes his velocity is down, but Diaz would be an automatic loss every 5 days. The Mets are looking at the prospect of Jose f***ing Lima. You can't tell me Freddy isn't better than that. Big AB for Dye here, let's tie this game back up. Finally, I think people are forgetting how bad it was for the Sox when they were trotting out Felix Diaz, Josh Stewart, Danny Wright, Jon Rauch and countless other bums with the automatic loss. The Cards tend to have a couple guys in the rotation doing that while the Mets need a guy if they want to really solidify there rotation and if anyone can point out someone else thats available thats better than Freddy (and yes career numbers do matter when you make a trade because in general people tend to trend to there average unless they are done and Freddy is not done my friends).

QUOTE(SoxFanForever @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:51 AM) Nice hit PK....nice hustle Jim What the f*** was that Thome. We shoudl have runners on 2nd and 3rd now with 1 out but instead 2 down and Paulie in position. Come on Dye, come up with the clutch hit here.

QUOTE(Frankensteiner @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:48 AM) I'm asking if you were GM of the White Sox and our 5th starter slot was filled by Felix Diaz or whoever, would you give up someone like Josh Fields for Garcia? I sure wouldn't. As far as the Cards and Mets, their rotation would still be s*** with Freddy. I'd give up more and take my chances that his numbers (since for the most part his stuff is still there, albeit i'm the first to admit his FB isn't near what it once was, but its not like he doesn't have plus breaking stuff) would get closer to his career trends. And if we had Freddy Garcia (this one) in our rotation we may have another world series ring since we had to suffer through that s*** with Diaz when we had Colon/Elo/Buehrle in the rotation all kicking butt and taking names. And I should mention the Cards rotation doesn't just have guys like Diaz, they got a few guys like Diaz.

QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:44 AM) I don't mean to insult, but are you kidding? A team in a pennant race would trace FOR Garcia? Do you think a team in a pennant race would trade for a pitcher who has been nearly an automatic loss spot in the roation? No team in a race would want him. No one could risk it. You don't pick up a reclamation project and put him in your rotation for a stretch run. 10-5...5 games over .500, how is that an automatic loss.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:43 AM) You think we could get (say) Pelfrey AND Heilman? Agree to disagree on that. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Please... We swing in a guy like Tracey and its a deal, imo. The Mets are desperate for another starter. And I just want to point out, you don't throw 8 shutout innings against a team like the Cards without having some talent. Freddy's done that this year...he's had a full month with an ERA in the 3's, he throws innings and he's just 30 years old.

QUOTE(Frankensteiner @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:43 AM) Yeah, Mark Hendrickson has been pitching better than Freddy at the time he was dealt. If there are GMs who will trade for Freddy based on reputation, then they should be fired. That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a while. Freddy clearly isn't the same pitcher he was in the past. If I can see that, so can opposing scouts and GMs. What about people willing to trade for Schmidt last year when he was pitching mediocre because people expected to pick him up and turn things around. Than Schmidt went on a bit of a run and obviously he was never sent. And I can't believe your actually comparing Hendrickson to Garcia and saying Hendrickson should get more trade value. We are talking about a guy who couldn't hold Garcia's jock strap.

QUOTE(Frankensteiner @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:41 AM) Would you give up upper echelon prospect for Freddy? We're just as desperate for dependable starters as those teams. If I'm the Cards, I'd give up whatever it took for Freddy. If I'm the Mets I'd trade Pelfrey for Freddy. The guy hasn't been near as bad as a lot of you think he has this year. Not saying he's been good either, but he's had runs where he's been just fine and he's still throwing innings. Sure there is a concern he's not throwing hard but I think physically he's fine. Look at it this way, The Cards got s*** in the rotation, the Mets got 2 guys in there rotation and they both need help if they want to even think about a World Series win against any of these AL teams.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:39 AM) I can deny that, though. At least in this market. I can't imagine they won't be able to do better if they're willing to deal Milledge and Hughes. If you'd like to enlighten me on whose available in this market with so many teams in contention? Jason Schmidt isn't available unless a team is giving up a pretty damn good starting pitcher back to the Giants. So if you guys know of any pitchers who are proven winners on the market, do tell.

QUOTE(Frankensteiner @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:38 AM) Do you think other GMs aren't seeing him pitch? Gordon will help us more now than Freddy. If that's on the table, get it done and don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I don't understand your thinking at all. I don't care that they are seeing him pitch, they know the guy has done it and as recently as last year. Plus he's had streaks this year where he was doing it. Teams in the race would f***ing love to pick up a guy like Garcia and see what they could do and they'd give up a fortune. For crap sakes the Drays get an upper echelon catching prospect for Mark Hendrickson and the Angels got a solid outfield prospect with some pop for Jeff Weaver. You guys are kidding yourselves if you don't think we could swing him to a team like the Mets for a top notch pitching prospect and maybe a guy like Heilman.

On a sidenote, I should mention Freddy has had many outings where he recovers greatly after giving up 3 in the first inning.