Chisoxfn

QUOTE(SABR Sox @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 08:23 PM) No, there were a lot of balls "finding those holes too." Not that he wasn't getting smoked, but he was getting "too smoked" if you know what I mean. Certianly more "smoked" than he should have been lol. Not saying he wasn't bad, but he was indeed unlucky too, a combination of both. And thats fine. I don't need another one of these arguments. But yea, everything is down now too, and as a result, his GB% (groundball %) has gone thru the roof. Another good sign. I understand the luck charm but I think in general that gets evened out over teh course of a season. Some games some bleeders fall, ohter games some frozen ropes find the mitts. And trust me, I'm not about to go heavy into this. I respect the Sabr methods. I may not agree with them but I respect that train of thought and its obviously worked semi sucessfully in Oakland.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 08:18 PM) To be honest, I'm not one of those fans who's freaking out about his contract. I think he'll be worth it(in the current market) when all is set and done. There are also the people who feel we have way to much money spent on our starters and Jon is obviously part of that. For me, Kenny could use all of the teams money on pitching and I'd be perfectly happy. I was just letting you know the reason that I believe Jon has been more hated on than most players by Sox fans, though Freddy does seem to have become the new whipping boy for now. The big thing I like about Jon is that he's big, he's strong, he throws innings and he seems to for the most part be pretty confident and calm on the mound. I don't see him putting much stress on his arm and I think we got him for a good value (especially compared to what I think he'd have gotten on the open market). But I'm bias as he's one of my favorite Sox players. QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 08:19 PM) That's because he was getting smoked at the beginning of the season, it wasn't bad luck. As usual we see things the same way.

QUOTE(SABR Sox @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 08:17 PM) He was simply unlucky at the beginning of the season. His BABIP was crazy high, now its starting to go down a bit, as a result so are his H/9 and ERA. Good stretch here Jon. He's not out of the woods yet thouugh. The hits are still going to come, and it'll be tough for him to dominate against lineups such as NY or Boston. His K rates are just to low. All I can tell you was early in the season he was leaving everything up and thats why the hits were there. But than again I'm about as anti stat as it gets and prefer to watch the games because I think that tells you a lot more about a player. I have no problem with stats being used as some sort of evaluation tool, but you can't find out everything about a guy from the statsheet.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 08:01 PM) Not by me. For some reason, some people hate the guy. I think it's his pretty boy California laid back I dont give a s*** personality, which some fans take as being a Judy. I think he's great. He beat a team that's been beating everybody except the Sox. Hope we keep it up. GO SOX. I'll drink to that Greg

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 07:56 PM) No one has b****ed about Garland in quite a while and deservedly so, it still doesn't forgive him for being useless in April, horrid in May and pathetic for half of June. Though all in all it's great to see Garland finally comming around after being pretty bad for 2.5 out of 3.5 months this season. As a long time supporter of Jon, I'm really glad to see him get rolling but he's going to have to keep it up and put the team on his back. If he can do that hopefully the other starters can see it and this staff can get back to what it was last year. I'm talking about a staff that fed off each starter who would go out trying to out duel the prior starter. They were all flat dealing and they all built up some serious confidence and weren't to be stopped. Now lets see Javy carry the momentum Garland gave us.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 07:40 PM) He's got a big head. They don't call him Shrek for nothing.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 07:30 PM) Another thing with Crawford, which likely would prevent a deal involving Fields.....the Durham Bulls moved B.J. Upton to 3rd base. Do you think the Rays would consider moving Fields to 1st or LF? I realize they don't really need outfielders but Fields is the type of minor league bat a team like the Rays could use (although they will obviously be more focused on pitching). I could see a 3 team deal with a Sox starter going to a team, prospects going to the Rays plus a few prospects of our own and Bmac joining our rotation. Of course the Rays would want Bmac badly I'm sure. I should also note I'm talking about over the off-season cause no way are we going to get Crawford right now. The Angels, maybe, but only if they stop asking for Santana.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 07:28 PM) Guardado has been closing since he got traded there. Definitely agree with this. Both teams are looking for pitching help and I just don't see anything even plausible to work out with the Reds. I was thinking Coffey wasn't closing anymore but had a brain fart and couldn't think of who would replace him.

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 07:28 PM) I like pushing the envelope here but that's a little much, even for me. I'm glad to hear that Nuke

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 04:34 PM) Bailey is still a high prospect in Cincy. Coffey is still seen as a guy who could develop very nicely for them. They both won't be traded in a deal for Freddy Garcia. Maybe one if you're lucky, definately not both. Isn't Coffey the closer? There is no way the Reds are about to deal there closer plus there only legit front line pitching prospect for a guy like Garcia. It wouldn't be a bad move for the Sox but they wouldn't be getting much to help them this year, unless they were planning on spinning Coffey and/or Bailye to another team to fill a need. I can't see us matching up with the Reds.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 06:52 PM) A couple of thoughts: - Vernon Wells is a superstar. If you can get him, I have no problem giving up Fields, Anderson, and big prospects. - Tampa doesn't want an outfielder in return for Crawford. They have a plethora of guys in their system. Completely agree on Wells. In Crawfords case I prefer a deal over the off-season. In both guys cases you are getting above average players who help you now and 5 years down the road and those are the type of deals where you should be willing to throw in upper echelon prospects to get things done. Also to the poster who suggested that big deal with the Rays. Its nice on paper but there is absolutely no way the Devil Rays are about to take on Garcia's contract.

Mench hasn't produced like I expected him to do this year. He really came on last year and while he hasn't been bad this year, he had one hot streak and aside from that his power has been way down. Doesn't fit here but I think a contender like the Yanks or Angels would have to consider him and there is no way they will deal him to the Angels.

Great posts Jim. I know I was working something with Wilder but every time we tried to set something up it seemed to be a bad time for him. He was real busy though cause I think it was right around the trade deadline and everytime I called him he was in another city. I'll see what I can do but I definately think you guys really summed up the stuff and it would be very interesting to hear what Sox management would say when it comes to stuff like that. QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 07:19 PM) I think as of late, the Sox have drafted some guys who are safer picks because they'll probably get through the minors quickly and they're value will be higher, quicker. With the way Kenny does things, I do believe that is one reason they go with the "safe" pick. Maybe I'm completely off, but it does seem to make a bit of sense. I agree completely with that. The safer picks are more likely to have trade value sooner and right now Kenny is the type of guy that swings his talent for other talent (usually current major league players) but he also isn't hesitant to use his chips to get him a young guy he likes thats fallen out of love in another organization (Juan Uribe, Matt Thornton).

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 11:11 AM) By the way, let me start with one area I think they can do a better job. I would like to see them more aggressively target guys in the draft who drop due to signability concerns, and then really go after them and get them signed. They have started to do this, at least in terms of targeting, by drafting Danks last year and the pitcher from Iliana Christian this year in the 20th round. The obvious problem is, it throws bonus structures out of whack and the baseball fraternity frowns on that, but I say target these guys and get it done. If you like a guy enough to draft him, get it taken care of. Several times in the last few years I've heard that "negotiations went down to the wire, but (name) decided to go the 4-yr. college route". A good example is this lefthander they drafted a few years ago, Donald Veal. They didn't sign him and he's becoming a very good prospect for the Cubs. That's frustrating to me, because obviously your scouts saw something good, it looks like the kid is turning out good, but the White Sox can't seem to get him signed. Now I'm sure this happens to every team but personally I do think there's some room for improvement. Wes Hodges is another name. And I think your dead on and I think its even more imortant to do so since the club has been in a position where they haven't had top picks so you got to make sure you spend some money on other guys and maybe get a few late round steals (guys that slid due for signability reasons). Another thing I'd like to see is the team look a bit more at guys arms. They go the safe route a lot, and I dno't have a problem with that, but I'd also like to see some guys with high ceiling arms. Of course thats easier said than done since I realize those type of arms don't grow on trees and usually they are high level picks.

That said just want to make this friendly reminder and its what LCR said: 1. We have already discussed that the ethnic spelling/speech on the boards (i.e "Joo know wha?" etc.) is prohibited. Have fun, enjoy the thread cause this thread and the game thread are the two threads that are a little more loose due to being more reactionary, but remember, explicit cursing is no tolerated. However the ocassionally exciting thread (which would be winner threads and the ocassional game threads where I understand people get upset from time to time) are cool. Just stay away from personal attacks or incredibly harsh attacks (even if not directed at anyone).

Anderson had a hit today, but he did strikeout with a couple on. At the same time he had a line shot to Inge who made a nice play otherwise it could have been two hits.

Guys....I just want to say one thing...lets enjoy this win We had a rough 6 games (losing 5 of em) and its nice to be able to kick back and grab a win, especially against the best team in baseball.

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 07:00 PM) Great stat brought up in chat...... Tigers are 25-21 against winning teams and 37-9 against sub 500 teams. Notice a pattern emerging here? The Sox are the best team in baseball against .500 or better teams. But the Tigers aren't exactly bad against .500 or better teams. Still its nice to see us get back on track but like I said one game doesn't mean jack. It was a huge win now lets go out tomorrow and take the series.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 06:42 PM) ma boi is growin' ups Now its time to see what he does in the big park known as the Hoover Met. I'm excited to see what type of progress he can make.

Big Jon really stepped up and got us a big win to set the tone of the series. However, we aren't out of the woods yet and we got to keep playing like we did tonight. It starts with good pitching and ended with good pitching but we also had some timely hitting and defense sprinkled into the mix

Grilli has pitched fine since giving up that bomb.

Yep, released and from what I know he hasn't been picked up by anyone. My guess is retirement, but Hideo doesn't seem to want to hang it up.

Garland stepped up like a man tonight. I don't think his pitch count is that high so he could be coming out for the 8th, but either way great start for Jon. 1 down in the top of the 8th as AJ grounds out to 1st.

Grilli strikes out dye but the damage was done in the inning.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 05:55 PM) I thought that hit the wall. Good thing you aren't the ump. The Tigers announcer was saying wall and I was yelling that it hit the fence above it...my mom was wondering what was up.