Chisoxfn

QUOTE(bmags @ Jun 29, 2006 -> 06:43 PM) saw elephant last week and forgot to share how terrible that movie is and how terrible gus van sant is. Longest movie ever and you just sit and wait and its just horrid. Its like 10 minutes of a movie showed over 15 different ways. Why don't I just walk down the street for about 5 minute and than show everyone else's perspective of me watching and call it a 2hr movie. QUOTE(bmags @ Jun 29, 2006 -> 06:43 PM) saw elephant last week and forgot to share how terrible that movie is and how terrible gus van sant is. Longest movie ever and you just sit and wait and its just horrid. Its like 10 minutes of a movie showed over 15 different ways. Why don't I just walk down the street for about 5 minute and than show everyone else's perspective of me watching and call it a 2hr movie.

And Brazil goes down, shutout by the French as Henrier had his 3rd goal of the cup and the game winner.

Henrier with a 2nd half goal and its 1-0 France and France missed a 2nd opportunity which was golden for them to take a 2 goal lead on the Brazilians. Game at the 73rd minute mark.

QUOTE(Frankensteiner @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 01:07 PM) The Angels don't need him; their rotation is full with Colon, Lackey, Escobar, Santana, and the younger Weaver. If they get him, than it could open up the options for them to than go out and acquire Carl Crawford for one of there young starters (one of the Angels young starters).

WOOT...what a comeback.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 30, 2006 -> 02:38 PM) Brian Anderson was the ace of the Royals staff for a time there, hard not to notice him. I remember he was actually half way decent in Arizona too, I believe he's been around for like 13 years now. Came from Anaheim and was the Dbacks first pick of the expansion draft IIRC.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 12:41 PM) Agreed. We would never hear the end of it even if the Sox won the next ten world series. STFU Cubs fans. They could have the greatest 3rd baseman of all time if we win 10 more world series in 10 years.

Happy Bday to one of the best posters on Soxtalk. Hope its a good one Keith

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 12:22 PM) Dude, just let it go. Javier has been average to bad for the last 2 years. Can he turn it around? Sure. But he needs to hurry the f*** up and get going. It's July now. IIRC, again I don't like defending Javy but I think both sides deserve to be looked at, last year he was a very good pitcher if you took away a few starts. If he picks things up and goes on another nice 2 month run, he'll have a very similar season where he has 4 good months mixed with about 5-7 just horrid starts.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 12:14 PM) Good lord. Were you one of those spewing the same s*** back in August of 2004 when Contreras was giving up 9 runs to the Angels? Vazquez has always been on KW's radar. Vazquez is signed through next season and is arbitration eligble in 2008. This was not a trade made for an immediate impact. What has Chris Young done so far this year Milkman? I see Vizcaino (who negative nancies like yourself threw under the bus way too early last season) is having an even worse June then Jazquez and his numbers are sky rocketing. El Duque was already traded from the D'Backs after posting a POS 6.11 ERA, and his now posting a POS 4.89 ERA with the Mets. Javy has been dissapointed this year, but do you guys hoenstly expect him to keep pitching like this for the rest of the season? The rest of his contract? How did Contreras do in the beginning of 2005? Very solid post. I think a lot of people over-rated Vazquez which is why I've jumped on this, but he's more than capable of posting a low 4's ERA over a full season while throwing a ton of innings. Right now he's really bad but what frustrates me is his attitude.

QUOTE(The Critic @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 12:13 PM) Do we have a starter that hasn't gotten pissed all over in a game thread? People stomped all over Contreras when he almost lost a game. Fact is, if Ozzie felt the Sox had a better option in the rotation, he'd be in there instead of Vazquez. Sox management must not feel that McCarthy is ready for it yet. Attaboy AJ! Count is struggling a bit, but doesn't deserve to get pissed on. He has been off a little bit as of late and finally got hit around by Pitt (every pitcher has a slump). Garland, while he had a horrid start, I still was confident because he has good command, can go deep into games and really has a good attitude (imo). Buehrle is Buehrle and he'll go through an ocassional few starts where he isn't as strong but you know what you got. Freddy is frustrating because of his velocity issue, but he's picked things up. Vaz, you really can't point to anything (control, not locating a certain pitch) but he's just getting hit and hit hard and his long term attitude in past seasons gives me reason to be worried. But ya, its a game thread and people are usually a bit more reactive (or reactionary) here cause its happening "now" as opposed to being able to have a day or two to sit back and think things over.

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 12:10 PM) giving up chris young and an aged, injury prone pitcher to bring in Javy as the fifth starter is a bad deal? Luis Vizciano would look very very good in our pen. Thats and Chris Young are the key names. I could care less about Duque. I'd have given him away for free. I loved what he did for us in relief in that Boston series and he gave us enough good starts out of the 5 spot last year (until Bmac came up and took over down the stretch) to get us in the post-season. But he's not someone I'd want to be counting on to take the mound every 5th day, just like Frank Thomas wasn't someone I was counting on to be our DH for 140 or so games (this season or really last season).

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 12:09 PM) Something happened to Javier at the all-star break in 2004. He's been mediocre to bad ever since then. Before that, he was one of the best young pitchers in baseball. f*** Uribe! We don't need that s*** right now. I think a lot of people thought all the innings got to him. He still throws innings (historically speaking) and everything seems to be there, mentally he isn't strong (that has to be it). Its not like he has horrid control where there is something taht really stands out where you can say if he fixes this he'll be fine. The way he goes about business, he just seems to totally zone out and get way too comfortable and teams than get runners on and he steps up or tries to than, but they are on so much that inevitably your going to give up hits.

QUOTE(winninguglyin83 @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 12:08 PM) i said haeger over Vazquez. we only gave haeger one chance. he's been solid most of the year at Charlotte. Could trade Vaz and get a functioning part in CF, maybe somebody who could really swing the stick, hit .190 and remember to touch first base when he hits the occasional ball into the gap (See Game Three agaisnt Pittsburgh for details.) I'm not a huge fan of Haeger w/the Sox but I do think he will have a couple sucessful years somewhere (probably for a losing team) but one thing I do think you hit the nail on was the whole "one chance". Regardless of whether a start is good or bad, if your a talent evaluator you can't judge a pitcher by his "first start". You can look at his stuff and judge that a bit, but you can't look at the actual numbers. I"d look a lot more towards his minor league track record, what type of stuff he flashed consistently and than go from there. Usually in your first ml start, you aren't near the pitcher you usually are because of nerves and ocassionally you are way better than you are due to the unfamiliarity of the other team or you pitching over your head. Fans, like scouts and executives have to be patient when it comes to players making there debut.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 12:07 PM) God, what a terrible, terrible trade that was. Its not a terrible trade, but if Chris Young lives up to his potential, it could go down as one of the worse in franchise history. However, if Vazquez pitches like Coop, KW and a lot of people (who I happen to think are wrong) think he can, well in that case its a good deal for the Sox. I just don't see it happening, mainly because I'm not a fan of his attitude.

QUOTE(beautox @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 12:06 PM) the reason it happened is because, KW doesn't want to pay a preimum for pitching, Garland and Count hadn't signed their 3yr contracts, and it was a move both out of panic and point. Count's agent kept misinforming him until KW finally had a heart to heart with him. that is why we Got Vazquez. I totally understand that. I still have my doubts as to whether that really is the reason why Count and Garland signed. I think we all know Count was misinformed from his agent (Jose found out about the supposed offer and called Kenny asking him about it and that went really quickly) and I think Jon would have signed. I do understand that point and it did work if in fact we wouldn't have signed those guys (or been able to) without the added pressure of having Vazquez. But I'm not a fan of trading an upper echelon prospect at a "need" position along with a pretty damn solid reliever who can throw a lot (Vizcaino) for a 5th starter with some baggage who was good a few years back. And by baggage I refer to the fact that he b****ed and moaned in NY and than when he was sent to LA (that wasn't good enough for him) so he ends up in Arizona and demands a trade again. I'm sorry, but Vazquez is a crying baby and thats what has long pissed me off about acquiring him. Plus we took a guy like Brandon (who was key for us down the stretch; we don't make the playoffs without his performances) and converted him into the pen when we could have just let him grow (into a far better pitcher than the current Vazquez is) all while having a legit reliever throwing out of the pen (Viz as opposed to Bmac) and a little more money (although I was a fan of getting rid of Duque and I think we'd have found a taker either way for him and been able to pick up some sort of bullpen arm, even if it was a raw one).

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 12:04 PM) You know you suck when Jason starts clowning you. Good post! I will say this, any team in baseball would be glad to have him as there 5th starter, the problem is we have really high expectations for our rotation and for Vazquez since we gave up a very very promising player in Chris Young (the type that doesn't come around very often). We also stunted the growth over a very promising pitching prospect (Brandon McCarthy and may have messed up his long term future by throwing him the pen). But I have never been as enamored with Vazquez as a lot of people have. I get enamored with guys when they struggle because of control or something else, Vazquez really doesn't walk that many people or have problems with that so I had my doubts as to what Coop could do. Mentally I don't think Javier gets it and he pitches with runners on all day long or so it seems.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 12:02 PM) He's been bad all year. Period. Technically that isn't true, for the first two months of the season you could argue that he was the most consistent starter we had next to Jose Contreras.

Vazquez and prospects for Shields and Figgins would be a pretty sweet little deal. If we had to take on some of Weaver's contract (just to make the Angels happy, than thats fine too). Put Mac in the rotation (somewhere he belongs and we can end that experiment and hopefully get him back to where he was last year, which was a pitcher that was pretty darn good).

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 11:59 AM) Still waiting for the Vazquez apologist to come back and defend their man. Who would possibly defend this turd. He's been s*** for a few seasons and is vastly overpaid and his stuff is vastly over-rated. I'm not saying he doesn't have good stuff, but its far from some of the best in baseball (despite what some people think). People are still thinking of Javier from Montreal and he's not near the pitcher he was than. Not to mention he's got no cohonies. But thats coming from someone who was left shaking his head when we made the deal. Not necessarily cause I hated it, more because I didn't get it.

QUOTE(Greg Hibbard @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 11:09 AM) I have a feeling we're gonna a have a LOT more chances to score than that, guys Problem is, so will they.

You Da Man

He has really struggled this year and I hope he can get healthy and get his swing/confidence back in A ball and than come back to AA for a little while late in the season.

Liotta is one of those guys that I don't think makes Kenny's 3 or 5 year lists and will be moved eventually.

Fabio is a really talented lefty and it was a good move by the Rangers and the Phillies. The thing that really irks me is I really think we could have gotten some good value for him since we had to know we weren't going to be able to sneak him past teams during the rule V. Fabio is officially gone cause there is no way he'll ever get through waivers and come back to the southside this year.