Chisoxfn

Does anyone have that score soundbite?

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 08:12 PM) He is talking about how great he has felt the past few days. He was at the Panthers/Bears game last week and all the fans were thanking him. He says he's not bitter at all about being traded. The Sox were the team that gave him a shot. He's just sad that he's leaving all his friends like Crede and Buehrle behind. He said he will also miss the fans a ton. Hell I think they should have Aaron Rowand in and honored when the Phillies are in town to play the Cubs. I'd do whatever I could cause Rowand is one of the key kogs of last year. In 2 or 3 years I'd have zero problem bringing him back (when he's a free agent).

QUOTE(GS1 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 08:21 PM) Rumors in Philly are that Rowand may not be here long. The Yankees may want him, and there is talk of a swap for Pavano. That would make some sense. I know you guys wanted a CFer. I remember seeing something about a Vernon Wells for Abreu swap that was talked around a little bit (dont' know how much truth there was to it). The Yanks do want Rowand badly though. They witnessed what he can do in the field. It was probably one of the most impressive defensive displays in a series (especially because two of the great catches came back to back) that I've ever seen.

QUOTE(MattZakrowski @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 08:17 PM) I think we'll get Frqank, because I can't see another team taking a risk on him. If no one signs Frank, I'm sure the Sox would give him a minor leaguer offer and see if he gets healthy. I just don't see the big man ever doing that. I just don't see why people just expect him to be heatlhy. I did see some positive news in an article today (about him playing golf) but I've heard a lot of bad things about the long term prognosis of his injury and how likely his chances of ever being the same are. I don't think its a gimme that he'll ever play the game and be healthy, in fact I think its far-fetched to feel that way. I do hope he can get healthy and get on a roll. Frank is an awesome player and is the greatest player to ever play for the Sox.

QUOTE(GS1 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 08:13 PM) We have an up and comer at Reading, Michael Bourn, who may be the best defensive Cfer the Phillies will have had since Garry Maddox, who was g-o-o-d! Problem is whether or not Bourn will ever hit above AA. The main reason Rowand was on the block was because the Sox have two guys that can go get it in center. Brian Anderson who is basically a more toolsy version of Aaron and Chris Young. Young is a raw player but he can absolutely hammer the ball. He has one of those live bats. Problem is he has a bigger "bust factor" but if he booms he has a shot to be one of the best in the biz (best guy to play in Bham since Maggs and had he not been hurt for a few weeks he'd have set some Bham records IIRC). As far as that CFer goes, hopefully he has some speed. If he's light hitting, but can learn to slap the ball and bunt and do other things he may have himself a pretty good opportunity. Baseball is going back to the old school basics of pitching, defense, speed at the top and power. But power isn't the focus it once was, nor is OBP or OPS (not as much as it was in recent years, imo). I think people are realizing there are other things to look at than just stats (specifically defense was way undervalued as was a guy that can create on the paths because he doesn't just get xtra bases, he helps the batter thats up, since that hitter would see more fastballs).

QUOTE(GS1 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 08:08 PM) You guys will love Thome. I, for one, will miss him in Philly. I made the one+ hour trip from Lititz, PA - yeah, where all the wild sh*t is going on right now - many times a year to watch this guy crack 'em. Do not be surprised if he still has 48-52 a year in him for you. As much as I think we'll all love Thome. I think Aaron is the type of player that we are all sad to go. With that said, you know you guys are getting a great all around guy and a solid all around player. He's signed to a cheap deal and his defense is just a thing of beauty.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 08:08 PM) Rowand is thanking Sox fans and crying in a radio interview on WSCR 670. Wow I wish I was listening to it. I'm so sad that he's leaving. Never have I been so hurt to see a player leave. At the same time I know Thome can help the Sox repeat. It kills me to see a guy like Aaron gone. He knew nothing but playing hard. What a special guy and I will never forget his years in Chicago.

Is Torborg with the Sox? Last I remember he was with the Marlins?

QUOTE(bmags @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 07:55 PM) and mike sirotka for david wells...worked out poorly for both teams... so he is a fair trader... I don't know, i love this trade cause we see Jim Thome in a sox uni, but honestly, the phils made out pretty well in this deal, i think this is pretty fair. Billy Koch and Cotts for Foulke worked out poorly in the short term for the Sox, but the deal made total sense from a logistic standpoint. Foulke was going to walk and wanted to get a big time deal (plus he wanted to start). Koch was coming off a fantastic season and was a guy the Sox would be able to control for an extra couple years. Unfortunately he was on the juice and as great of a guy as he was, he wasn't able to do anything on the Southside. However, Cotts is a stud and that deal over the long term will work out beautifully for the club. Cotts is one of the premiere lefty relievers in the game and he isn't just a loogy.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 07:50 PM) I know. I was just using hindsight to show that many times prospects don't turn into the super studs that people think they will be. Kenny Williams makes out well on most of his trades. Aaron Miles for Juan Uribe Miguel Olivo, Jeremy Reed, and Michael Morse for Freddy Garcia Esteban Loaiza for Jose Contreras And Carlos Lee for Scott Podsednik and Luis Vizcaino worked out for both teams. I can safely say there were two Ken Williams deals that I slammed to high heaven. Matt Guerrier for Damaso Marte and Ruddy Yan (turned into a darn good deal) and the Todd Ritchie trade. And fact of the matter, every deal Ken Williams has made in his tenure has a reason behind it. They haven't all paid off, but you can see the logic behind all of them. The Ritchie trade was to get the staff a veteran starter who they thought was going to turn into a good pitcher(and Schueler has taken the blame for this deal). The Boomer trade was to give the Sox the veteran ace that could get them not only back into the playoffs (in 01) but to get them over the hump. The Pods deal was to change the makeup of this club, but more importantly (and sometimes this wasn't looked at near enough) freed payroll to bring in a 5th starter (Duque) a catcher (AJ), and a 2nd baseman (Iguchi). The Everett and Alomar deals were ones that were supposed to and I thnk everyone thought they would, put this club over the hump (the 1st time). Hell that was as talented of a Sox team as I've ever seen. Joe Torre even said (during the playoffs) that the White Sox were the best team in baseball (too bad they choked). Basically put, you can say Kenny gives up a good amount, but for the most part its a fair deal and usually he deals from a surplus in the organization and they are typically guys he likes less than the other prospects that fill the same position. There are exceptions, namely Miguel Olivo and that didn't bite the club in the ass.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 03:51 PM) I disagree... (FPCT/RF/ZR career at 1B) Thome: .994 9.30 .823 Konerko: .995 9.48 .826 PK looks better to me, though they are very close (and both very good, and both improved in recent years). Konerko hasn't had back problems like Thome has. I'll take PK at 1B and Thome at DH. Plus PK has the best arm of any 1st baseman in the bigs (maybe Erstad can match it). No one turns the DP from 1st better than Paulie.

QUOTE(White Sox Josh @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 03:35 PM) Thome is a better defensive 1B than Konerko. People forget that Thome, when healthy is good with the glove. Umm...Konerko is one of the better 1st baseman in the biz and is much better than Thome with the glove. If Konerko had a little more range I'd probably say he's a gold glover. In the AL, Tex and Erstad (who should have won the gold glove) are the two that are hands down better (I can't even say it with Tex, but I'm basing it on him winning the gold glove and I don't really think thats the right thing for me to do).

QUOTE(rangercal @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 01:44 PM) at this point IMO Frank contract with incentives > 14 m Konerko Totally disagree. Plus Konerko isn't getting 14 million. Regardless relying on Frank Thomas to do anything in 06 (aside from getting hurt again) is a no no.

QUOTE(knightni @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 01:08 PM) It's possible he could be back if the Sox don't sign Konerko. Imo there is maybe a .1% chance of that happening. His days are done in Chicago.

QUOTE(phillychuck @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 07:38 PM) We'd love to hear what you WSox fans have to say about Rowand, Gonzalez, and Haigwood over at http://www.philliesphans.com/phorum/viewforum.php?f=1 . From our perspective, we hate losing probably the classiest guy in baseball and a prototypical LH power bat, but either he or Howard had to be traded, and the salary issue made Thome the expendable one. Something you guys may not have heard is that Thome's rehab regimen has been highly successful--reportedly, he's in the best shape he's been in since his mid-20s. Also, his elbow injury was related to throwing, something he may not have to do much in the AL. We hope he hits 50 HRs for you and we see you in the series. Is Rowand more likely to perform at his 2004 levels, or his 2005 ones? Did he hit many more Groundballs because Ozzie wanted him to, or was it his own idea, or simply a swing mechanics issue? We understand pretty much everyone likes Gonzalez, but Haigwood's numbers are unreal, and he's closer to the majors--is he the real thing? Congrats on a well deserved World Series win. Hey Chuck Thanks for the invite. Let me tell you, Haigwood is the best of the two prospects you get. He doesn't have the hype/love from Baseball America but he's the better pitcher. Thats not a knock on Gio because Gio has good to great stuff but a very slender build. I think a lot of scouts question his durability, plus whenever your in A ball or lower you still got a while so a lot of things can happen. Haigwood has turned it on and really had a tremendous year in Bham (a pitchers park) from his mid-season promotion. The guy has a plus changeup and can locate his other pitches in the zone. He gets good downward action and knows how to show hitters different levels and keep them off balance. Definately not a pure stuff guy, but his changeup is a near plus pitch. Very under-rated prospect you got. I think in terms of Aaron you'll see something closer to 05 as opposed to 04. That said Aaron has more power than he showed this year, but the beautiful thing about Aaron is his personality and defense. He is one of the 5 best defensive centerfielders in the game and knows nothing but 150%. He has problems recognizing breaking balls and really seemed to have problems turning on the ball this year. He usually produces a good number of Xtra base hits and is what I'd deem a smart player. I think he could do something like .275-.285 and 20. Will never be a high OBP guy (unless he's totally raking). That said if you guys get the Aaron of 04, you have yourselves a steal of a trade.

QUOTE(lemon44 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 07:30 PM) If we don't re-sign Konerko let's trade for Glaus. If we don't resign Konerko, than I still think Giles at the right price (and for 3 years) makes a lot of sense. He could slide into CF if need be and the Sox can than maybe find a platoon type bat for 1st base (even a guy like Mueller). If the Sox had Giles and Thome in the middle I have zero problem with Mueller playing 1st.

QUOTE(JimH @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 07:20 PM) Can they pry Freel away from the Reds, he's the kind of guy Ozzie likes. I saw Freel, but he has some mega off the field issues and from what I heard they are a lot worse than whats been reported in the media. I think he's a guy that would fit, but also a guy that the Sox will stay away from.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 06:48 PM) Some guy named Kong I agree with you on that. They will sign Konerko by the end of the winter meetings. I'm leaning towards it being a 4yr 52 mill deal with a 5th year option that would be right around the same amount.

QUOTE(DukeNukeEm @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 06:35 PM) Joey Gathwright? The Drays aren't going to trade a speedy outfielder, and a cheap one at that, that they have the rights to for a while.

QUOTE(hi8is @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 07:36 PM) rowand was a class act from day one.... and he was a class act on the way out: "B.A. is a good player. He's going to be fine," said Rowand of Anderson. "He can hit. He plays defense. He plays the game the right way. Chicago fans and the White Sox are going to be happy to have him." I hope Aaron can come back to Chicago one day later on in his career.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 06:40 PM) I just remember the entire media saying that we overpaid. Instead, Olivo is not even on the Mariners anymore, Reed looks like the weakest hitting center fielder in baseball, and Michael Morse got busted for using steroids. I said it was a fair deal. I think on the most part Kenny makes fair deals. I could see this deal working out for both teams. I could also see it busting up for both teams (Thome is hurt and is done, than the Sox are busts cause they give up at least one sure thing in Aaron). Thome hits 40 Hr's 3 straight years and the Sox kill in this deal (especially if none of the prospects develop). However the most likely scenario is both get what they wanted.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 06:29 PM) Cheat summed up my feelings (that I couldn't put down in words) in his blog entry at SouthSideSox: I don't mind giving up Haigwood. He seems like a nice prospect, but you're going to have to give up more than Aaron Rowand to get Jim Thome. That's fine... But Gio too? Eventually we're going to need another league minimum, cheap option for our starters. Right now, the rotation is on the cusp of being really expensive, with Contreras and Garland due big raises in the coming years. I'll digress, and say I'm going a bit overboard on my Gio love, but losing him hurts. A lot. I'd say it hurts more to lose Gonzalez than it does Rowand. BTW -- I'm sort of hoping they don't resign Konerko, but go after someone else (Giles. Giles. Giles.). Konerko and Thome seem to have the same sort of baseball skills, with the edge going to a healthy Thome. I just don't think Konerko will be worth his contract. Thome, I can deal with -- $7 million a year, that's a bargain. Any ill feelings I have towards Kenny would be immediately washed away by signing Brian Giles. I'll state it right now. Of the 2 minor leaguers the one I miss more and that we may regret the most is Haigwood, not Gio. In fact there is a shot Gio never pitches in the majors (due to injuries) while I can't see Haigwood not being a 5th starter at worse). Just my 2 cents and as usual I think these were guys Kenny probably didn't want to give up but had to. At the same time I'm sure these were guys Kenny didn't see the upside in as opposed to others. Of course Lummy had no trade value due to injuries and Liotta is still raw and doesn't have the name that Gio has. I'm still not that concerned. The odds of them both becoming good major league starters are low. If Thome hits 40 hr's next year and the Sox repeat, its all worth it. Heck if Thome plays well for the next 3 seasons and is healthy its all worth it. I don't think as highly of Gio as most though. The thing that stings to me is that the Sox have very little depth in terms of pitching prospects and they may have dealt there most ML ready one (not named McCarthy) when they traded Haigwood. Stuff wise I still feel Tracey has the best arm in the minors (right handed) but I don't know if he'll ever develop the control and the necessary secondary pitches to be a great starter. However, I think worse case he could slide and fit nicely in the pen (total rubber arm) and he gets great downward action on the ball.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 06:44 PM) No. PTBNLs can even be major leaguers if they are in different leagues. Also, I don't think the Sox can add Castro because their roster only contained 39 at the deadline. I can't imagine baseball would allow them to add Castro after the deadline (even though a spot was open at the deadline) now that they have made a trade. Being that was the case, I'd agree. I thought it had to deal with being in a different league (and that you were able to trade major leaguers or PTBNL as long as they were there) but wasn't always sure. Thanks for explaining that to me. I still doubt anyone would grab Castro and keep him on their roster the entire season.

If Thome is healthy for the next 3 seasons this is a fabulous deal. If he isn't, obviously it brings problems. One thing for certain Thome fills a serious need when healthy and the move makes total sense. Prospects are prospects and in this case they were spun for a player who can make a huge impact and be a big part of a potential repeat.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 06:18 PM) That brings up another interesting point. The 40 man roster is now at 38 players for the Sox. I wonder if we have a rule 5 pitcher in mind? I assume the Sox would be able to move Fabio onto the 40 and protect him now? Sox won't go after anyone in the Rule V though. It would make no sense. A contending team isn't going to keep someone on the roster for the entire season. Of course they would have the option of eventually trading for the player, but I still find that very unrealistic.