Chisoxfn

QUOTE(Wedge @ May 24, 2005 -> 09:58 PM) We're giving up an awful lot in that deal. Maybe Crede, Liotta and one of Tracey, Lummy, Whisler. Otherwise... that's just too much. Ooops, meant to say Liotta or Gio.

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ May 24, 2005 -> 06:20 PM) For those of you complaining about the credibility of the rumor, just sit back, relax and partake in some intelligent baseball chatter. There have been some great--and I mean great--points made by both camps. Personally, I think there may be some vaildity to this "rumor." GM's keep in contact regarding players/talent all the time. I guarantee one thing and I know Jim said it too, but if Chavez is available you know damn well Kenny is going to call and at least find out what the asking price is. Kenny will do whatever it takes to help this club as long as JR ok's the financial aspect of it and assuming it makes sense for the Sox.

QUOTE(JimH @ May 24, 2005 -> 06:07 PM) You are right in the sense of young pitchers being an unsure thing, and going for the established player who can put you over the top. No doubt about it. McCarthy is the best Sox pitching prospect in over a decade. Great mechanics, and he's smart, very competitive, and unflappable. Very rare combo. As you said, if it can happen w/o BMac, bring it on. I do not see the Sox trading any of the 6 starters, they are tired of getting burned by not having starter depth. That's also why they have a couple of retreads in Charlotte ... just in case. It is a long season. I agree...in the end I would be very very hard pressed to ever deal Bmac the way he's pitching right now. He just has all the intangibles plus good stuff and pinpoint control. The guy has a shot to be a similar pitcher to Prior.

QUOTE(farmteam @ May 24, 2005 -> 05:50 PM) Alright, I have no idea what responses were made to this, and I have no idea where the thread headed since I haven't read the rest of it, but I'll comment on this point. Anyways, without BMac, who do we include for Huff? Our strength is the outfield, but the D-Rays bar none have the best Outfield depth for an organization. There's Crawford and Baldelli already at the major league level, and in the minors there's Gomes, Gathright, and Young. There's also Hamilton, if he ever gets his head screwed on right. So, who would we give up? Some combination of Crede, Tracey and perhaps Ray Liotta? Too much? Too little? I'd offer up Crede, Liotta or Gio and than someone like Tracey, Lummy, Whisler. Its a hell of a deal for the Rays, they'd be getting some high potential guys.

QUOTE(Princess Dye @ May 24, 2005 -> 08:33 PM) "AAAAH": Podsednik going home on contact, even if it was the smart call "AE AE WHOA YES": Paulie bobbling the 2 out grounder and then flipping off balance to Buehrle these are the actual sounds i made, i think you all made similar ones. You should of heard me in the stadium. I was going nuts on the one with Paulie. I was just hoping and hoping and when he made the catch me and this Sox fan sitting behind me were screaming at the top of our lungs, LOL.

Crap my mistake. I edited that in the copy I had but I never gave that copy to Dan. I've been so swamped with finals. Thanks for getting that up Dan

Awesome game to watch. Definately the best game I've seen all season. Buehrle was dynomite and I must tip my cap to Fartolo who pitched a hell of a game. Great Win Sox I'm happy I got to see em win for once in Anaheim. May the same happen again tomorrow

QUOTE(dasox24 @ May 24, 2005 -> 07:01 PM) Yeah, that's who it was. That guy is bad ass. He went 7 strong, giving up 0 runs with 9 k's last night. Probably the best pitcher in all of the minors. I saw him throw a game this spring and all I could say is WOWZERS. If he stays healthy and improves his control...the guy will win a cy young or two.

I'm assuming he talked to Bull. I Bull on the site last night and I'm guessing Alex had shot him a PM or email or something. My guess is Bull was borrowing someone elses computer. Bull if you do happen to see this...best of luck in the recovery

For the 1st time this year I finally get to say this...Time to head out to the Sox game

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ May 24, 2005 -> 01:07 PM) I was gonna say the same thing Nuke. He's brought his right had off of the bat a number of times while swinging left handed. It looks like his lead wrist is bothering him. it doesn't seem to be buggin him while he's hitting right handed, hence the bizzare splits this year. Rex Hudler was mentioning this all day yesterday saying how Everett kept looking at his hand when he'd get out as if it was bothering him. I know one thing, he's cheating to catch up to the fastball (still can't do it) and because of that he's way out in front of every off speed pitch down and away. It could definately be his wrist though.

QUOTE(JimH @ May 24, 2005 -> 04:00 PM) So what do you do with Crede? You're suggesting trading Crede to Cincinnati for Randa, not following your logic ... ? I could see the Reds being interested...but the Sox would have to get something more in return and I just don't know what else the Reds have to offer (that they would be willing to part with). They wouldn't deal Ryan Wagner (even if the Sox through in a guy like Munoz so the deal doesn't make sense, imo). Crede >>>> Randa (trade value wise).

QUOTE(Heads22 @ May 24, 2005 -> 03:59 PM) Ick....Jason and I in the same state. We do have the internet here, ya know. Ya, but my grandparents don't....they don't even have a computer. Lucky for me I do get some semblance of Cable, of course WGN got replaced in there lineup a few years back (meaning I'm Soxless too). Usually I spend a lot of time sleeping (its just such a different life than I'm used to out here...so much slower, well thats cause I'm not actually working the farm...in that case it would be quiet the opposite).

QUOTE(JimH @ May 24, 2005 -> 03:57 PM) Just as crazy is the White Sox giving up Joe Crede straight up for Joe Randa, let alone sending the Reds another player. Crede has way way way more trade value than Randa. Why would the Reds want Crede long term anyway? He's under control for one more year, thru 2006, and I think then he's eligible for FA and his agent is Boras. They have Randa under control thru 2006 anyways. Reds may end up dumping Randa but it'd be for a lot less than Joe Crede. Not to mention Randa will be 36 later this year while Crede is 27. Thank god, at least someone else agrees with me on that. There is no way I'd give up anything more than Crede and even if I did that I'd be hard pressed. I've long said Crede, plus a guy like Diaz/Munoz and a filler (maybe Spidale) could get the Sox a quality 3rd baseman (whose more than a stopgap). I wouldn't not give up a few talented guys because Fields is down in AA. Its not like he's on the fast past to Chicago right now.

Carls bought out Hardy's way back when I think. I don't think Hardy's was always affiliated with them because Carls Jr. was originally started out in New York City as a hot dog stand (IIRC). Personally I am a big fan of Carls, especially back when the famous star was 99 cents.

I'd have to think you could get Randa straight up for Crede.

Ya, its usually right at the beginning of June. This time I plan to be home during most of the draft writing up pieces on it Of course I'll be in Iowa the weekend before the draft..internetless (BOO).

QUOTE(Rex Hudler @ May 24, 2005 -> 03:25 PM) MLB players on rehab do not count against Charlotte's roster, so in effect, they should have 26 active players right now if they are at full strength. There is a limit on rehab time, however, so if that time is surpassed, and the players kept in AAA then moves to clear space would have to be made. I think that limit is 20 days.

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ May 23, 2005 -> 03:38 PM) Just throwing in some Bears news rather than starting a thread. LJ Shelton in Chicago right now visiting, PER: NFL Networks Total Access. I read that in one of the articles in the paper and was totally bumped. It looks like they'll use some of the savings on Rdub if he'll agree. He's a talented LT that has had some attitude problems. Still, that would give the Bears a vastly improved line. Tait and Shelton (tackles), Brown and Miller (guards) and Kreutz in the middle. Big upgrade from last year.

QUOTE(Cali @ May 24, 2005 -> 02:38 PM) Damn! The freaking game right after the Padres series, could have seen him come back live and in person. s***, I just thought about that. Obviously they don't want to have him wasting on the bench solely as a pinch hitter down in San Diego so he'll be making his return in Chicago. Maybe Frank makes it back before than and us Californians will be lucky enough to see his return

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ May 24, 2005 -> 02:29 PM) You're right, it would be a good deal for us even if Bmac turned into a good pitcher. But I don't expect him to turn into a good pitcher. I expect him to turn into a great pitcher. If he were to turn into a great pitcher, 35 starts a year, 15-20 wins per year, etc., then this would be a terrible deal for us. I just think its too hard to go to that extent. Who would of figured Juan Cruz woudln't of turned into a stud or Edwin Jackson. So many things can happen that to predict and expect greatness and to turn down a deal because of that (when your getting a great player in return, who isn't just a stop gap solution) would be a mistake, imo. I agree and am Bmac fan numero uno, but at the same time I woudln't pass up on a chance to help this club win now and Chavez is a player that would be around a long time. I'm saying the bust potential of this trdae would be low. Even if Bmac becomes a stud (possible) you will have 4 or 5 years with Chavez in his prime (maybe not as good as Bmac doing his thing and obviously more expensive, but its not like they get nothing). If on the other hand Bmac is a #3 pitcher (probably just as possible as him becoming an ace) than this deal is a win for the Sox, especially when you factor in this team is playing for the World Series. Of course we know my take, I'd move other prospects and just tell Beane Bmac ain't touchable. If your not interested than I'll be on the phone trying to acquire Huff and give them a package of anyone but Bmac. Hell I'm the person that would let Bmac start from here on out (assuming he pitches like I feel he's capable of) and would just forget all about Duque and deal him for middle relief help at the deadline (i'm sure a team in the Wild Card looking for a starter, the Sox, and a 3rd team with a good reliever thats out of contention could work out a 3 way deal with the team that got Duque giving up the prospects and the Sox picking up a very good reliever). There are a lot of options on the table. Right now if I were the GM I'd of identified two needs for this club. 3rd base and a replacement for Viz. I'd be on the phones from here on out figuring out what teams had players that fit the bill and would go from there. This period of identifiying players to fit woudl take some time and if those guys worked themselves out so be it, if they didn't, I'd be ready to strike when the iron is hot and add the necessary parts to give this club as good of a shot possible at winning the series. Luckily the Sox have the best record in baseball, so they have the ability to wait a little longer to identify needs than a team that is a few games back needing to pull the trigger immediately. Regardless this is a good club, but to win the world series its got to improve in certain areas. The same can be said for every other team in baseball too.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 24, 2005 -> 02:27 PM) I think it would be extremely risky to trade B-Mac, considering El Duque's history of being unable to stay healthy (he's injured right now, go figure). If I was confident that El Duque could stay healthy for the rest of the season, I would consider this trade. But if we traded B-Mac and Crede for Chavez and El Duque got injured again, we would be f***ed. My thoughts are if you deal Bmac and Crede and it happens to be that the Sox need another starter, they could move some of their other prospects. They got a lot of chips. Of course you could say the Sox would be mortgaging the future, but hey, if they are still leading the majors in wins and feel that this move puts them over the top, then you do it. It could backfire, but a team with Chavez at 3B as opposed to Crede is a much better team, especially when you factor in the main weakness of this club has been the offense (and Viz). I'd rather give up Gio and Tracey or something along those lines. I think those two easily equal Bmac, especially with the Sox taking on Chavez contract. Still, after hearing some comments from KW in terms of being able to keep this team together it would surprise me to some extent if they acquired a guy with as long of a contract as Chavez had. It would obviously spell the end to Konerko at the end of the season. Regardless this team has prospects and not all of them will make it or become good players so there is no harm in hedging your bets and picking your fav's, holding onto them and using the rest to improve the major league team. Every once in a while you trade a guy you shouldn't (luckily I can't really say the Sox made that mistake. Reed was by far the best player the Sox have given up in a trade under KW).

Interesting. Thats a bit longer than one would expect. I'm guessing they will wait for the road NL games to be over with before activating him. I don't really have a problem with this because I think more AAA at bats will make it that much easier for him to come up and have success right off the bat. Still maybe my numbers are off, but June 13th seems like it would be over the 20 day maximum rehab stint.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ May 24, 2005 -> 02:21 PM) One huge difference is BMac is a pitcher. The Sox have a few OF prospects, although I bet one day they will regret trading Reed. Good starters are very expensive. BMac will be pretty affordable for several years. Not with Anderson/Sweeney/Owens/Young down in the minors. I'll take the proven pitcher in Garcia anyday for Reed. Reed will be a good player, never a superstar. Olivo is looking more and more like nothing. That was a tremendous deal for the Sox cause Freddy is a good pitcher. Chavez for Crede and Bmac would be a good deal for us even if Bmac turned into a good pitcher. If Bmac busted or didn't live up to the hype it would be an unbelieavable deal for the Sox. Chavez is a proven stud...Bmac a minor league stud. Now I think Bmac is going to flat dominate, but there is no guarantee of that. Now if I were making any offer, I'd be offering the entire rest of the farm system but Bmac, but if it came to Crede/Bmac/Filler for Chavez and maybe a little cash, I make that deal every single time. Chavez is an all star and one of the best 3rd baseman in the game. I'd still hate and cringe at losing Bmac (he's been the best prospect to come up in a long long time). That being said, I think if KW played tough enough he could put together a good enough package without giving up Mac. Plus I still think Oakland could use someone like Brian Anderson just as much as Bmac. I do think the A's will dump Chavez though because they are in financial mode and don't want to pay his contract.

QUOTE(AnthraxFan93 @ May 24, 2005 -> 12:08 PM) Be years end you will wish we had.. Nah, I've already seen way too much of him down in Anaheim. The guy is way worse than Eckstein.