Chisoxfn

By the way (adding on what you said a few posts ago) - put yourself in Ryan Poles or even Kevin Warren's shoes. I really think at this point its down to Johnson or McCarthy. Johnson is the top young, potential high upside unknown on the market. McCarthy is the stable, high floor, good coach, with a proven track record of getting the most out of his QB's (and by the way his players genuinely seem to love him). You are sitting there in those seats and thinking of longevity - do you go for the homerun that could look like a disaster in 2 years or do you hire McCarthy and basically in reality that should (anything can happen) buy you a few years, if the ship is turning and you are heading in right direction...in 4-5 years you could always now pivot to say, its time to find the high upside coach who can jump in....but you are now 5 years down the road if you are Poles, if you've made the playoffs say 3 or 4 out of those 5 years...you are NOT on the hotseat, and instead are looking at another hire and probably a pretty safe path to say 10 years in the seat. In fairness - anything could happen, McCarthy could come in, you know he's got a high floor and it starts to show that Poles draft's and FA moves have been wrong and now he is out and McCarthy is staying (even in that scenario - if I'm Warren, I at least know I've put Caleb with a proven, bright offensive mind who is GOOD with QB's - so I've protected the franchise from that standpoint). I just think of the above and while there is the allure of Ben Johnson - do you really wait 3 weeks for the chance of Johnson and if you meet with Mike and really say hey this guy is different than what we've had in Chicago for a long time, this guy is Chicago, this guy is really good...do you really let him leave the building and interview for New Orleans while you chase the allure or Ben Johnson (who is going to get a huge offer from the Raiders - no doubt about it in my mind)?

What if the inverse strategy would work - go acquire some extra money if you are the White Sox and than go after these 3 teams hard (a little too late to do that now) - but I could have seen a world where I would have went and grabbed some international money in trades and than leveraged it to buy out some high quality prospects on the promise of certain payouts.

I saw this somewhere else - but this goes back to 2000-2024 and how McCarthys offenses have performed and who the qb was. I will notate 2017 with Packers was when Rodger’s was hurt (i think by Wooten or someone on Bears iirc): Mike McCarthy as OC in New Orleans and San Francisco ('00-'05) 00 - 10th in yards, 10th in points (Jeff Blake & Aaron Brooks) 01 - 10th in yards, 13th in points (Aaron Brooks) 02 - 19th in yards, 3rd in points (Aaron Brooks) 03 - 11th in yards, 14th in points (Aaron Brooks) 04 - 15th in yards, 14th in points (Aaron Brooks) 05 - 32nd in yards, 30th in points (had 4 different QBs start games - Alex Smith, Tim Rattay, Ken Dorsey, Cody Pickett) Mike McCarthy as Green Bay head coach ('06-'18) (Brett Favre through '07; Aaron Rodgers '08-onward) 06 - 9th in yards, 22nd in points 07 - 2nd in yards, 4th in points 08 - 8th in yards, 5th in points 09 - 6th in yards, 3rd in points 10 - 9th in yards, 10th in points 11 - 3rd in yards, 1st in points 12 - 13th in yards, 5th in points 13 - 3rd in yards, 8th in points 14 - 6th in yards, 1st in points 15 - 23rd in yards, 15th in points 16 - 8th in yards, 4th in points 17 - 26th in yards, 21st in points 18 - 12th in yards, 14th in points Mike McCarthy as Dallas head coach (''20-'24) 20 - 14th in yards, 17th in points (Andy Dalton & Dak Prescott) 21 - 1st in yards, 1st in points (Dak Prescott) 22 - 11th in yards, 4th in points (Dak Prescott & Cooper Rush) 23 - 5th in yards, 1st in points (the year McCarthy took over playcalling from Kellen Moore) (Dak Prescott) 24 - 17th in yards, 21st in points (Dak Prescott, Cooper Rush & Trey Lance)

What you said above. I go back to - let McCarthy be Doug Collins to Caleb, I also just think there are too many other good candidates who I'd prioritize over Flores. But there are certainly worse candidates than Flores. If Fields was the QB - Flores for example is more of where I would be going (a QB 3-4 years into the league who you are looking at building the rest of the team). The nice thing is - McCarthy, Pete - I really think they achieve both ends. But maybe I'm biased...and McCarthy despite his flaws also has the whole offensive side of the ball thing.

Exactly this. It sounds nice to say next coach for next 10 years but reality is this hire has to be the person who gets Caleb on track to be an all Pro type of qb. That has to happen immediately over the next year plus in terms of that big leap and continued growth. You get this hire wrong - and wrong isn’t this coach can’t win the Super Bowl, wrong is this coach can’t develop Caleb (and the rest of the team) and this becomes a wasted opportunity. That is why I’m looking purely at who can get that right and position Caleb and rest of the locker room as best as possible to get that part of the maturity, development and growth of this franchise to happen. It has to be Pete, McCarthy or Ben Johnson in my mind. I can also get the idea of Ravens OC or Kingsbury…cause in all cases you are going with proven or at least guys with track records of sustained offensive success or with a coach who knows what he is doing and has developed the position (or McCarthy who has done both).

I really want to see this happen - sit back and eat your popcorn, the fireworks will be so awesome and entertaining!

It is - really good vet candidates plus Johnson and Monkin and Glenn. Bears are who scare me.

Pirates also got Morel who was one of the Dodgers bigger targets (bigger than the guy the Sox got).

This is a great thing - was hoping Sox would at least get someone out of this. Just confirming - this was someone in this upcoming year's class (not the previous year). So he was previously committed to the Dodgers '25 pool and now backing out.

Shows you how much really good coaching matters though. Payton had the credible to know what would work, what didn't, but he also had the ability to make the real changes needed no matter the heat. I think people underestimate when you inherit places that have been ran down in terms of legitimate infastructure and expectations and how much it takes to change it. New first time coaches just don't have that sort of credibility and ability unless you are really really unique. Its why I'm so big on hiring McCarthy or Tomlin (if you trade him) or Caroll if I'm the Bears. They have been broke for so long that getting one of those guys with that sort of credibility and proven ability to implement foundational systems and process and buy-in across the board is so critical (and who have enough swagger to be able to make those blow-back decisions and not sweat it; a rookie coach just can't do some of those things to the same level).

I agree with you - I didn't see Nix doing what he did. I still think there is a chance he becomes the Mac Jones of this draft. But he has had an outstanding season. He may have a great coach and all that to help him, but he's done it too and played with a ton of poise. Yeah he fell short but Denver's turnaround was as impressive, if not more impressive than Washington's.

I agree - I think in general this was a really really historically strong QB class. For example - I think Bo Nix will have a long career, but I don't think he is a top 10 QB. Jayden Daniels - I think he's been schemed up, but he has real talent, can easily be a top 10 QB in this league. Maye also has flashed talent - but I saw nothing that screamed he is way better than Caleb (who also flashed top 10 talent). Penix/McCarthy we didn't see a ton - but I loved them coming out of college and JJ sitting given his in-exeperience (I know it was an injury that drove it) is going to be huge for his long-term development (to the positive).

Caleb and Stroud's numbers are actually amazingly similar. In fairness, Caleb benefited with some garbage time points.

I think reality is it is all of the above and that compounded to make it worse than it is. I do think the running game is a major issue. Swift is okay, but Johnson and Swift was a bottom 10 duo. That is on the GM - as there were other backs who got paid similar in offseason who were far better. Poles overrated Johnson (or the Bears offense has way undertilized him). But that combo WAS NOT good. And I think Swift is an okay running back but he has to be part of a broader room....Swift by himself is not a top 10 running back.

For the record - I still think Caleb is the cream of the crop - but will admit Daniels clearly looks legit too. I am not gaga over Maye or Nix for that matter. I do think Caleb did a lot well but the fact that the Bears made things so complicated for him on offense I think really prevented him from having the easy throws and things like that which not just take away the read or simplify it, but they help drive more consistent footwork which hugely impacts the deep ball accuracy, etc. Caleb flashed it in droves throughout his college career - and I imagine he will get it back. But he's got to work on stepping up into the pocket and clearly has to work on some of those mechanical things to get them right. This offseason will be big but he has a ton of experience now to build on too and has a real feel for the differences that exist in the NFL.

They aren't the best job - but they are attractive and Jerry will pay. But you also have to deal with Jerry. But I could see this playing out that Johnson goes to Dallas, McCarthy to Bears. I actually think its a win for everyone (except the Lions - who loose a really good OC - but they'll be able to find someone good to step in).

This is why Mike McCarthy or Pete Carroll are so intriguing. They know how to win, they bring a program that works. McCarthy in particular is very intriguing to me as he is an offensive mind who was at the ground level in Rodger's development (and also helped get Matt Flynn paid) and than did good work with Dak. Monday through Saturday he is a professional coach who knows what it takes to win. The only real knock on him is his in-game management and at this point, I think the Bears have been so broken for years, getting someone to get the Monday-Saturday dialed in and who can work with young QB's and develop QB's would be a huge homerun. If in 3-4 years the team is falling short IN the playoffs - than at least you have the system in place and franchise to a point it has actually moved forward and can find the next coach (ala let Mike McCarthy be Doug Collins to Caleb Williams). You got to get this right and I think McCarthy should ensure you have the stability and process in place to provide Caleb with an environment to grow the next few years into the type of QB he can be. With Johnson he might be brilliant at X's and O's but I have no idea if he can do the other stuff right and quite frankly I think that is the most important thing the Bears need. Crazy cause I don't think McCarthy is an elite coach - but he's a no doubt good coach and he's on the right side of the ball.

I think this is them doing him a favor and getting him in the news. It also is the first interview that counts toward the Rooney rule. I want nothing to do with Ron - unless it is as an assistant head coach.

This is interesting. I kind of like this theory.

I am so sick of the payroll disparity in baseball. I’m so sick of JR too.

Kind of interesting at least they are getting to talk with a legend like Pete.

Just the way he spoke - he is just so in over his head. Don't know how else to describe it. It isn't like he's a bad speaker, he just has no alpha in him (or at least it doesn't come off) and he doesn't strike me as someone overly confident or assertive either. So many things he said where I was like well that doesn't sound great, or that doesn't excude confidence. I really go back to - Bears pride themselves on sharpest interview answer and most Corporate company CEO type of person and less on who actually has what it takes to run a professional football organization and drive real change. Ryan Pace had way more of that in him than Poles. I just hope I'm wrong and its just more of a - he doesn't want to be overly negative on past regime and prefers saying nothing and deep down he crushes it. But its back to - he saw this stuff in training camp, let it all slide, ignored it. This wasn't his first training camp - like come on.

I listened to Poles talk today - I could not have been less impressed with anything he said. Gave me absolutely zero confidence...in fact it gave me negative confidence.

Also requested Monkin (Ravens OC). Lamar is impressive so don’t know how much is Monkin vs Lamar and having Henry.

Flores, McCarthy, Vance, Arthur Smith, Johnson, Thomas Brown have all been confirmed requests. Vrabel I saw one place but haven’t seen reported as widely? Am I missing anyone yet? I know McCarthy isn’t sexy but he is 13th all time in wins and very experienced…think it is smart to at least pick his brain and get his perspective. Same with Arthur Smith…if you are going with Vrabel do you want to at least “talk” To Smith to learn who he is and maybe get an idea of how interested he might be in joining Vrabel? Obviously Steelers could block it…but maybe he gets assistant HC gig plus OC so it is considered a promo?