Chisoxfn

Hopefully we get encouraging news of his session today and even more encouraging news the day after (e.g., pain free).

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 24, 2012 -> 11:54 AM) FWIW, if they do want to acquire Greinke, I'd much rather it be using Floyd and then someone like Mitchell as opposed to using Viciedo/Quintana. Completely agree. I can't fathom (pun intended) losing two cost controlled guys like Viciedo and Q for a couple months of Greinke (especially when you get no picks to show for it). The potential for disaster is excessive.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 24, 2012 -> 11:28 AM) The speculation was that the Lopez/Humphries contracts would help them out because Orlando could dump a bunch of their bad contracts in the trade with those two (Richardson, Davis, maybe Nelson or Turkoglu). Kris Kardashian is only on a 2-year deal, so he basically gives them two years of surprisingly solid production while they tank then he's off the payroll. The bigger question is whether the Magic wait till then. There best bet is to trade him now, when a team that acquires him can still get the rights to make a larger max offer then anyone else. That ends if he signs after the season starts (he will lose out on being able to sign that 5th year when he hits FA). Its why I still think the Bulls should go crazy for him. For those that think the Bulls should go into a full rebuild mode, well then the Bulls have nothing to lose by going all in on Dwight, hoping he stays. If he doesn't, you have cleared cap space to get him. If he does, you are in business, and as Deron proved, it is hard for an NBA player to turn down that extra year of guarantee money (and I'd reckon one coming off a back injury would think that extra year to be awfully important).

Floyd is one of the better pieces of trade bait out there. That option is pretty solid and affordable for what he is. I hate giving up too much for Zack. He's going to be gone at the end of the year (as I highly doubt the Sox would sign him) and you end up turning an asset like Floyd (+ other good prospects) into a rental.

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Jul 24, 2012 -> 11:13 AM) I thought they still could, but they'd have to wait until January. But even then, i'd be pretty hard. It depends on whether the Magic want him at that contract. He can be traded in January.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 24, 2012 -> 11:10 AM) Not if they get Dwight. They can't get Dwight anymore. They don't have the assets. All of those plans ended when they inked Lopez.

Sam Smith's take on things: http://blogs.bulls.com/2012/07/bulls-will-...-offer-to-asik/

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 24, 2012 -> 10:53 AM) Yet, all three of those teams made major moves to overhaul their teams in the offseason. Strange how that works Dallas completely whiffed on there plan A. They've made a series of small, under the radar moves. However, as a whole, let me know of any expert that is going to call the Mavs a title contender. The Lakers made a great move in getting Nash, but long-term it doesn't help them. They needed a guy to put him over the top short-term and went with it. The Bulls weren't in the position to make that type of move. Boston is not a title contender either. They are the epitome of a team that refuses to give up (and they should be rebuilding) and they got duped on last years deep run (thanks to Rose going down; they barely even got past Philly).

QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 24, 2012 -> 10:38 AM) I really don't think LA or Dallas or Boston was better than us at any point the last 2 years. Having watched those teams a lot, the Bulls were as good, if not better, then each of those teams the past 2 years.

QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Jul 24, 2012 -> 10:30 AM) Bottom line: everything I hear is 2014 2014, be patient wait 2 years, Rose coming back, etc. 3 of our 4 primary offseason acquisitions (Nazr Mohammed, Vlad Radmanovic, & Kirk Hinrich) merely fit with this plan because they will all assuredly be gone by then. That doesn't strike me as a POSITIVE offseason, which is all I asserted from the beginning. Doesn't seem ridiculous to question the direction that was executed this offseason. Doesn't mean the entire next 5 years are wasted, not everything could have been solved this summer regardless. But none of these acquisitions are even relevant to the long-term plan. Completely understand where you are coming from. I think despite having a more long-term plan, I believe you still have to make decisions for the current rosters.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 24, 2012 -> 10:29 AM) I are frustrate. Fine. The Bulls are great. Yay, I'm super happy. No one said you had to be happy. You can disagree. Nothing about your post had anything to do with the discussion. I don't get how hard it is to see that. Its the exact type of crap that derails threads. Not to mention, you don't have to sell your fandom to anyone. We all know, without any doubt, that you are a diehard fan of the Bulls.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 24, 2012 -> 10:13 AM) Who they drafted is a credit to the organization. Heck with Noah, most of Soxtalk wanted them to take Spencer Hawes, and hated the Noah pick. People also wanted Igodala picked instead of Lu. As for the Rose part, that is spot on correct. Beating 50 to 1 odds is nothing but luck. And at the time, it was pretty 50/50 on who the 1st pick should be. In fact, early on, most everyone thought Beasley was a consensus #1. Bulls might have lucked into the pick, but they also made the right basketball decision and took Rose.

QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Jul 24, 2012 -> 10:09 AM) Despite insinuations to the contrary I have nowhere suggested that: -we needed to trade for a star THIS summer -the Bulls aren't good at drafting -the Bulls front office didn't put together a contender the last 2 years -Derrick Rose's injury didn't destroy us -being patient with the roster in light of Rose's injury is a bad idea I'm simply saying that to go out and add mostly aging veterans and mostly guys who have literally ZERO chance of being a part of your core when Rose comes back simply doesn't jive with the overall plan the Bulls have pushed. Going into this season the only two guys who even have a chance of becoming a part of our core are Teague and Butler, both of which were draft picks. Getting younger on the bench than we did would have made a helluva lot more sense if the plan really was to just be patient until Rose comes back. Bellinelli and Hinrich aren't exactly again veterans. Hinrich is older, however, I won't be surprised if he's still in the league 4 years from now. Bellinari is 26 or so. He's in his prime years and should be for at least 4-5 years. Radmonovich, yes, he's and old decaying player who isn't very good (hits some threes and thats about it). However, signing him was what it was. The Bulls are still trying to sign Malcom Thomas. Isn't he the definition of the type of player you are talking about? I just don't see what the Bulls missed out on. If anything they have 2 guys in Hinrich and Bell who can be solid bench players from 3-6 years (depending on whether it is Bell or Hinrich). That falls pretty nicely with that 2013 or 2014 window. And you might say, well, Bell signed a one year deal. Sure he did, but the Bulls will be able to sign him for more years if they want to (or he can be signed as part of a S&T and thus used as an asset later on). Heck, he might even have value to another contender and can be cut in a deadline move. Look, you are proposing going out and signing crappy 2nd round picks. That doesn't seem like too good of a strategy. Putting good young players with piece of garbage young players could actually hinder and have a negative impact on the young players growth. Additionally, the Bulls still have to make money and want to put as solid of a team forward. They have every intent of making the playoffs and I think part of that is they want the perception to be a playoff team without Rose, so that when they got Rose back and are looking for a 2nd star, said 2nd star will be pretty giddy about the Bulls chances, knowing they were a playoff team without its best player (and are trying to bring in X to be the 2nd star), which would probably make them immediate title contenders again.

QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 24, 2012 -> 09:51 AM) Thibs is willing to give rookies some minutes if they show that they aren't a detriment to the team out there. He didn't give many minutes to James Johnson. Teague, at this point, I'm afraid he'll be a detriment to the team. He can't run an offense, he can't shoot, he can't defend well and from what I saw he had trouble finishing at the rim in summer league. He's just not a good NBA player right now. Giving him minutes would be a mistake, unless the plan is to tank. To be frank, it would hinder the development of other players. Plus, having vets like Hinrich and Bell makes the team better and you can still potentially use those guys as assets in S&T's and other deals in the future (or keep them since you'd retain bird rights). And both of those guys have value on a contending team. Additionally, having more quality players helps with development as practices are more intense and they have better role models to learn what the NBA is like). These are all very important qualities and part of this is why good organizations stay good and lousy organizations that consistently have top picks stay bad (guys never learn how to be successful in the NBA).

QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Jul 24, 2012 -> 09:49 AM) I'm not talking about the guys who were already on the team, I'm speaking to the additions of THIS offseason. I didn't see marquee young talent just laying around. What do you expect, the team to be the most talented in the history of the league and every off-season being able to acquire great young talent. It doesn't happen. It takes a lot of work and the Bulls have hit on low picks better then most teams. They've hit with Thabo (whose a damn solid player for the Thunder), Asik, Taj, Butler (if he turns into even a solid bench player, thats a hit given where we picked him). Then there is Mirotic who looks like a hell of a pick at this point (still the jury is out). You can't ignore that track-record. And even this year, Bell isn't exactly old. Butler is taking steps forward and as a whole the key players on the team are on the right side of 30.

QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Jul 24, 2012 -> 09:44 AM) If this was the route the Bulls were going to take why not ACTUALLY get young and athletic on the bench through purchasing second round picks or such? Rather than not actually getting young and athletic and adding Kirk Hinrich and Vladamir Radmonovic who will assuredly have no chance of being contributors on these healthy Derrick Rose teams we are planning ahead for. Give a couple of guys a chance to see if maybe they can be contributors in two years, which is what we are supposedly planning for anyways. Rather than be short sighted and add age to the bench with guys who have no hope for being a part of those future teams we are aiming towards. I'm just as aware as anyone else that Rose won't be back to 100% for God knows how long, but if that is the case then the direction with the bench simply doesn't make sense. There was barely any youth added to this team that you are supposedly speaking of. Jimmy Butler and Marquis Teague are the only considerable young talents on the roster and they were our last 2 draft picks. I realize Taj is a bit older, but he's still young in NBA terms. Noah isn't old. Deng isn't even old. This team is young. Yes it has some vets around those guys, but hell, I like having quality veterans around to tutelage our players.

QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 24, 2012 -> 09:44 AM) I hope we send him down to the D league. He's not ready for prime time. Thibs is gonna play young guys, he's gonna give minutes to Butler. Jimmy has shown he can handle the NBA game, Teague has shown that he can't even handle summer league. Asik and Taj got a ton of minutes at young ages. I don't quite understand where people think that Thibbs doesn't give young guys minutes. He's always gushed about Butler as well and I fully expect Jimmy to get minutes in year 2. The reality is Teague is very raw, so I don't see why it isn't surprising that the Bulls will use him heavily in practice and work on his game there. Sometimes the worse thing you can do is just put a guy into the game too soon and let him completely stink. Can ruin confidence and hinder development. Sometimes the opposite is the case, but Teague is very raw and given how hard the Bulls practice, he'll learn a lot, even if he isn't in the games (as we've seen/heard about Butler this past year).

Very interesting. I'm curious what has gone on during his struggles since his hot start. Guy has the tools and given how raw he was, you expected him to take time. I know the Sox were still making some tweaks to his swing and I'm hopeful that part of his struggles are related to a necessary step back which will ultimately result in a couple steps forward.

QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Jul 24, 2012 -> 09:34 AM) Right, as I said, they didn't necessarily hurt themselves but did they really take a single step forward? Are they in any way shape or form an ounce closer to championship contention with a healthy Derrick Rose? A healthy Rose is at least a full NBA season away. At least and even that is a question-mark. Bottom line, the Bulls have quite a bit of time (this whole offseason, the trade deadline, and next off-season) until you even get close to panicking and even then, realistically, Rose might need even more time to be back. That is the stark reality. So while they haven't taken a big step forward, not panicking and screwing themselves for the future, has been the right thing to do. I don't know what happens between now and then, but GarPax did a great job putting a team that could win a title together this past year. All the b****ing from everyone in here must make you all forget how good this team was. And they didn't know that Rose would end up going down. Bottom line, they did put the team in a position to win a title. They have drafted extremely well. Yes, they missed out on LBJ/Wade/Bosh, but everyone did. They were the closest to getting them and even after missing out, they went to a plan b that put themselves in a position to be potential front-runners to win the title this past year. Rose's injury has jaded a lot of us, but I don't see how you can ignore the fact that in the past 2 years, the Bulls have been a potential championship contending team, despite being one of the younger teams in the league. After Rose's injury, the time-frame changed and it is clear that the Bulls need a 2nd star. Easier said then done. However, the team has the assets to get said 2nd star. But the team also has the time, since said 1st star is early in his rehab program and still pretty much 2 years from being close to 100% (assuming a perfect recovery).

QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Jul 24, 2012 -> 09:30 AM) The Bulls 100% absolutely, regardless of Derrick Rose, did NOT improve this offseason. That is not to say that the goal of the offseason should have been to improve for this coming season but what steps did they take to improve their overall situation in ANY regard. Other then losing Asik, how did they hurt their situation? Hinrich's contract isn't going to prevent them from doing much. Same for Bell or anyone else. You could argue that matching Asik would have hurt them (again, it all depends on whether you thought the Bulls could move him and his contract a year from now). Other then that, they still have quite a few assets in play, including a $5M TPE. Noah & Deng both have value if you wanted to make a trade. As does Taj. Butler is showing signs of taking steps forward too. Boozer is well, Boozer. Basically put, I don't really see what move that was out there that would have really put the Bulls over the top which they missed out on. Maybe you argue its Mayo over Hinrich and I don't know the specifics but I see value in having Hinrich (even when Rose is back). And I think Bellinelli is a good get, although I'm dissapointed he signed for just 1 yr (vs. 2). Bottom line is the reality is the Bulls are in the same spot as they were when the off-season ended and the only real think the Bulls could have done differently was gotten value for Asik at the deadline. However, they didn't know Rose would tear his ACL. All of the doom and gloom is due to Rose and his situation. And no move out there will immediately solve that. Steve Nash would have been a stop gap, but he doesn't win them a title. Getting Dwight is about the only thing out there of value and I dont' know what the Bulls have done but it sure as crap seems like Dwight is the pickiest guy ever and doesn't want to play anywhere (still, it wouldn't stop me). I'd also go 100% after Bynum in a 3 way deal if I could too.

Another thing to remember is the Bulls still have quite a few assets. They could easily opt to deal Deng, whose value (well once he gets back from his injury), will probably be about as high as its ever been (other then right before he hurt his wrist). Thibbs really increased Deng's overall value (hence his all star appearance last year). For those teams that can't sign a big name player, Deng might be their best option. Twolves have been interested, as have others. Could the bulls potentially clear out Deng's salary a lot sooner, and put themselves in a position to be under the cap next year (and have a shot at Dwight)? They might be able to move him at the deadline for picks. Again, that would be a big risk, but I won't be surprised if the Bulls move Deng after he returns. As a 2nd piece, he's not good enough to win a title. The tough part is, the Bulls would also have to move Noah and then of course Amnesty Boozer, but, Noah can be moved too. I'm sure the Cavs would have interest (and they have young talent). So would quite a few other teams. Basically put, if the Bulls wanted to go a different path, they absolutely could. I don't expect them to, but for those complaining, they really didn't have to do it this off-season, especially since, as we all know, highly unlikely they are going for a title this year.

What if the Bulls ended up having a season like the Spurs had when Robinson missed the year with a hurt back. They lucked into Duncan, got Robinson back healthy, and started a 2nd Spurs dynasty. By the way, just saying. Completely unlikely (unless of course Deng opts for surgery).

Knicks signed Ronnie Brewer.

CJ Watson, who played with Derrick Rose, said Deron Williams is the best point guard in the league

Foye ended up signing with the Jazz.