Chisoxfn

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 29, 2011 -> 11:12 AM) I still contend that most of you guys are on the wrong track here. You've got $75 million or so committed to the payroll, basically, no matter what you do, correct? It'll be a cold day in hell when you dump all your meaningful players to keep a $75 million payroll for a horrendous team. They're going to trim the payroll to a reasonable level. That may mean trading some of the key performers, simply because you've really got nowhere else to trim salary. That does not mean, however, that they're going to completely rebuild. $75 million in garbage still doesn't mean anything. I just don't see how they contend by cutting payroll into that range. Unless of course you pull off some great deals and get major league ready talent that pans out instantly (which could happen). Thats why I think the question really is what market is out there. If Kenny can buy and put together a team with a chance, than he does it. If he can't, than regardless of the payroll, you need to rebuild, imo. Whether that is what they actually do or not, well thats a whole nother story.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 29, 2011 -> 11:15 AM) Those two things aren't close really. You are talking about a guy who just gave you a cheap six year extension, versus a minor leaguer. Those things are going to be viewed very differently by people outside of the organization who might want to come here. The one thing I'd point out is that he did sign the contract too. I don't think Sergio's sole purpose of signing was to give the "White Sox" a good deal. It was also to guarantee himself financial stability for life. I think when a guy takes a serious home town discount, that is another story. For example, had Paulie taken a big discount and a month after we went to trade him (and got his permission) it wouldn't look good. In this case, a year later and if we go into a rebuilding mode, working with Paulie to ensure his happiness probably ends up being good PR.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 29, 2011 -> 10:05 AM) The picture emerging is of every asset not named Konerko or Ramirez being available. Which means paulie is probably available too. If its going to happen, no half measures. If you deal one piece, look to 2014 and move anyone you can't keep until then, and anyone else you get a great offer for. And it than begs the question, should Alexei be available. The Sox do have a lot of valuable assets. The problem is they have three of the worse contracts in baseball and a weak farm system that has ultimately cost them the playoffs the past couple of seasons.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 29, 2011 -> 10:26 AM) 2 legit top prospects plus some filler, and either 1 of those prospects is top 25ish or both are top 50ish. Otherwise there's no reason to move him. Clearly we both are seeing eye-to-eye on this one.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 29, 2011 -> 07:14 AM) Say the Lions totally crash and burn down the stretch and go 0-fer. Does Schwartz go on the hotseat next season? Or even this offseason? Probably not.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Nov 29, 2011 -> 09:29 AM) Agreed. This team isn't magically getting better by dumping their tradeable assets merely to resign MB. I see it as a lateral move at best. I fear this is indeed the goal though, and I also fear it will continue to leave the organization in between. Not bad, but not good either. I'm not sure why Mark would want to return if this is the case. Barring the Sox getting the green light to spend some money, the best move would be to clean house. I suppose if you get the right packages for Danks/Floyd, you could resign Buehrle and count on other guys, but man, that just seems like an in-between move that ultimately hinders the club.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Nov 29, 2011 -> 09:27 AM) I was told by many here that there would be a line of suitors for Thornton. What gives? I think there are a lot of teams interested in Thornton. The key is the Sox haven't decided what they are doing quite yet. I think if they see room to add to the team via trades and contend, they do that. If they don't see that out there and instead see strong deals for their existing assets, they rebuild. Ultimately though, the Sox are probably looking for a big haul for Thornton or at least holding out for it. That is my hope. The question is will Kenny deliver. I know one thing, when the Sox deal Floyd, I'm going to be bummed. I freaking love that dude.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 24, 2011 -> 05:32 AM) I dunno about Stewart in either role. Basically, to me, Stewart's biggest weakness last year was that his sinker didn't have a whole lot of sink on it. He got a fair number of groundouts but it just didn't look like his ball was as heavy as I'd like it to be. I liked his offspeed stuff, but it was a bit inconsistent. If he's going to be a bullpen pitcher, basically he needs his first pitch to be a solid pitch, and that's his fastball/sinker. If he's going to be a starter, he needs that first pitch to push a lot of groundouts and also add in some additional offspeed stuff. I think he needs to work as a starter just to work on that sinker. You pitch him out of the pen and I see value. His velocity will be in the 95-96 MPH range as opposed to the 91-93 MPH range. A hard heater with that heavy sink would be very effective (nice for DP's, etc). Plus, there would be additional value in the fact that you could use him in a 2 inning or even 3 inning role in a pinch (assuming you ocassionally stretch him out). As a starter, I don't think he has enough secondary stuff to be anything more than a back-end guy and most likely I think he's one of those back-end guys you can't wait to replace. But I do hope I'm wrong. The reports on him when we traded for him looked nice, the more I watched him pitch, the more I thought his stuff was mediocre as a starter and the more I wondered what the heck our scouts were seeing.

QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Nov 29, 2011 -> 09:20 AM) I think that is my confusion, one day the Sox are rebuilding, the next they are going all in part duex, until they make a move I guess we all are sitting here waiting. As for the two guys, I know nothing about them, and I don't know in recent (11 years) how much I trust any arm that comes up through the Sox system. But, it is good to know that Ohman isn't the only option sitting there. Exactly. No one really knows what the Sox are doing at this point. Until they make a move we won't know and to be frank, moving Thornton isn't an indication. Ultimately it comes down to what they do with Danks/Floyd. If they move those guys, odds are it signals a rebuild and it means Thornton and Quentin will also be dealt. It also probably means Konerko would be out there door in time too (assuming he'd accept a trade). It is really unfortunate but this team is really handcuffed as a result of Peavy/Rios/Dunn. And the big question is whether JR is willing to keep payroll at the level it is to give it another go with the assumption that those guys step up. If they do, great, you are a playoff team, if you don't, well you just lost another 15 or 20 million and wasted another year where you could have potentially started your rebuilding process.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Nov 29, 2011 -> 06:38 AM) I know that. Point was the idea of trading a 29-year old closer, even one with a team-friendly contract, isn't anywhere near the potential travesty that some are making it out to be. I agree. At 29 and with this contract he is incredibly valuable. If a small market contender or heck, any contender, was in need of a closer, the Sox would be foolish not to listen. But the asking price starts at 2 top 50 prospects plus a 3rd prospect whose a top 150 or so prospect. Its a steep asking price but given the financially friendly deal and his talent, it only makes sense. From the Sox perspective, it gives you more talent, which we ultimately need. If they plan on trading Danks and Floyd, this team is going to have to rebuild so they might as well move almost anyone who is not going be able to contribute 3 to 4 years down the road (since at a minimum you are talking about a 3 to 4 year rebuilding period if you move Danks/Floyd for spects).

QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Nov 29, 2011 -> 08:51 AM) Is anyone concerned that if they move Thorton, that leaves Will Ohman as the only LH in the pen? Not that I am against moving that bloated contract, just don't know if I trust Ohman all that much. The Sox have Charlie Leesman and Donnie Veal. Not saying that should make you feel comfortable but those are options. I think if you can get a high upside arm or prospect for Thornton and save the cash you do it. The Sox are probably headed into a rebuilding mode and once you do that you need to start moving what you can and collect talent.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 28, 2011 -> 02:12 PM) If he gets fatigued easily...then the solution is...Brewer, Bogans, Korver, Watson, and that other PG that the Bulls just drafted. The fact that he lasted 72 games last year and averaged >20 mpg suggests to me that if I asked him to play in 80% of the games and give me 15-20 minutes as part of a 4 guard rotation, he ought to be able to handle it barring a catastrophic injury. The question is whether there's someone out there who would do a better job at that role or who you would want playing even more minutes than that. There are a lot better options than signing Tmac, imo.

He's a reliever.

Wow, awesome. So this is what happens when hell freezes over and I buy a mac, haha.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 23, 2011 -> 02:18 PM) No. They have a horrific QB. I was wondering if they'd end up turning the reigns over to my boy Stanzi. If Orton learns the system he should be a good fit. I personally think he's better than Cassel. Plus, KC has two physically impressive wideouts in Baldwin and Bowe.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Nov 23, 2011 -> 01:45 PM) Coop was on XM radio today and said Zach Stewart is better suited for the bullpen FWIW. I completely agree. I don't think he'll be a very good starter. You put him in the pen and his velocity will move into the mid 90's, with his sink and a relatively rubber arm, and he could be a very productive set-up guy. I don't think he has enough "good" pitches to succeed as a starter.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 21, 2011 -> 11:43 AM) Of course, the other answer still remains...he tired out middle of the season, and so he became a 3-4 inning pitcher who the manager insisted needed to pitch 6. Agreed. He was fatigued and tired. I think his stuff was still there and he was effective but just wore out so quick that he got hit up prior to getting the hook (and pretty early). For some crazy reason I feel pretty confident in Humber having a quality season for the Sox (not an ace type year, but a solid middle of the rotation starter).

Sox made the right decisions regarding both of these moves. Pretty much no-brainers. I've been really burried at work so I haven't been too up to speed on the baseball off-season but I'm pretty stunned at how few signings there have been so far.

If KC claimed him, it would be a double suck, since it makes K.C. better for when we play them and potentially hinders us if Hanie struggles. I should point out I am more than willing to give Hanie every opportunity. He is mobile and has the ability to make some plays but he has to limit his mistakes and the Bears have to be very careful regarding their play-calling, etc.

It has to be Houston. Why wouldn't they make that claim, regardless of the fact that they signed Klemens. You know Leinart sucks so get Orton and you might be able to save your season to an extent.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 23, 2011 -> 09:08 AM) Dude, they had Todd Collins last year. They are saying all the right things, such as the "Hanie will start and Orton will backup" stories that are being leaked. That's what you say, because if KC claims him (highly likely) you can't have Hanie thinking he was going to get replaced and they have zero confidence in him. Hanie probably starts this weekend regardless, but if the Bears are awarded the claim on Orton, he will absolutely be starting against the Chiefs at home the following week. The question is, do the Chiefs want to blow $2.5 million with a 4-6 record? You'd think they'd look at all their injuries (DB's, Charles, Cassell, etc) and chalk it up, but who knows. I completely disagree. The Bears will give Hanie every opportunity before handing things over to Orton. You have to remember that this offense isn't easy to learn. Heck, look at how long it took Palmer to get up to speed and he was pretty much jumping into an offense he was familiar with (having worked with the head coach when he was the OC in Cinncy).

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Nov 23, 2011 -> 08:02 AM) I know a lot of people were ripping on it, but my wife and I are really enjoying Terra Nova. The wife and I are enjoying it as well. I will admit that it has moved slow but this weeks episode seemed to create some interesting plot twists. I will admit that it doesn't hold a candle to some other shows that I've previously enjoyed that were cancelled or have ended (e.g., Lost, Jericho, Flashflorward).

QUOTE (HeGone33 @ Nov 21, 2011 -> 03:20 PM) Where are these career stats? Only career stat is yards per catch, which I'm not saying Gore is the better receiver. I've had 3 people warn me I won't win vs. the Homers here, I can see why......you people probably haven't even watched Gore in a game since they played CHI in 2009 I go to the bar every Sunday to watch games. There is a reason people were talking about Forte being an MVP. I haven't heard that same talk regarding Gore. It isn't a knock. Gore is a very good RB but he's not as good as Forte.

ROFL.

QUOTE (HeGone33 @ Nov 21, 2011 -> 01:35 PM) Gore is about to become the 49ers all time leading rusher behind names like Craig, Watters, Hearst and Perry... When Forte has the career Gore has, I'll hear you out... And going by your logic, Philip Rivers is better than Cutler......... I don't give a crap about careers, I care about who is better now. If we had Brett Favre as our QB would his 20 year career matter, no, what he did for me this year would matter in terms of who is better now. If two players were equal I might put more weight on previous seasons as potential evidence of who you might be able to expect to continue at a certain pace. Since Forte has joined the league he's 3rd in yards from scrimmage behind Chris Johnson and Adrian Peterson. The guy had one not so good season and it was when he played the full-season with a partially torn hamstring. In no world is Gore better than Forte at this stage in their careers. And this isn't a knock on Gore. Oh, if Cutler stays healthy, he will probably set every record in the Bears books, doesn't make him better than Aaron Rodgers (who, most likely, will not set every Packer QB passing record).