GreenSox

All that signing this guy will do is crowd out the necessary and important auditions of younger players. Some of these young players will be part of the next good Sox team and some won't. It's time to find out about the Coats, et al.

Yanks have a position player-heavy farm, so that looks promising.

Scapegoats and saviors; scapegoats and heroes. That’s what it’s all about. That’s what the world is all about. Get solid and you won’t have scapegoats and won’t feel the need to force-feed heroes, most of whom are faux-heroes anyway. The one to look to flip is Gonzalez; if he repeats last year, moving him along won't be a problem.

QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Dec 16, 2016 -> 04:12 PM) I'll be VERY disappointed if we don't have THE best farm in baseball, after getting 5-6more Top 100 talents and a few more lottery tickets. They measure the farm by going at least 20 deep. The Sox drafting has been consistently below par for years, although some argue it's been better recently and perhaps it has been (last year's draft may turn out a lot better than usual, but the drafting still displayed a lot of Hahn/Williams ongoing bad habits). They also short-shrift the international market and were more than willing to throw in their top international prospect when the Padres were just looking to salary dump James Shields. That kind of nonsense has to be corrected or the Sox will rebuild for 10 years. But or now, a top 8 or so system I'd say and the top 10 is in the top 3 or 4.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 16, 2016 -> 10:49 AM) His point is well taken, as it was my own, when we were relying on bargain basement guys to play SERIOUS roles on a competitive team. But Fowler actually was a $13 mill contract, was clearly going back to cubs, and cost a 1st round pick. Desmond also cost a 1st round pick. But 1 year contracts; those lost picks were recouped one year later. And the Sox would have lost a 2nd round pick (or maybe the comp round pick -forget how it works), but recouped a comp round pick a year later. I will admit that this year Hahn has an excuse to do a contract or 2 for a bad player and, on its own, it doesn't really matter; however it hasn't been restricted to tear down years; that's his modus opeandi in "go for it" years.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 12:57 PM) Cespedes cost around $30 million for that season. The mess of one years signings cost the Sox no where near that much. Rick Hahn spent $17.5 million on the following: Morneau, Avila, Navarro, Jackson, Latos, Rollins. Let's add $5 mill for Shields and his ERA near 7 and we get $22.5 million. Desmond and Fowler each signed for $8 million. The Sox can afford it, but $6 million seems way excessive for a pitcher with the production of Holland; and his peripherals were bad. And it is concerning for the future, as such contracts are routine out of Hahn and used in a way to "go for it". Yikes!

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 16, 2016 -> 08:10 AM) This is what Keith Law said: Nick: If you were Lunhow, would you trade Musgrove + Martes + Tucker for Quintana, and why or why not? I go back and forth as an Astros fan but think I’d be happy with him pulling the trigger. Klaw: If I’m Luhnow I do it. If I’m Hahn I’m not even countering because it’s so low. FWIW, I don’t know that that was ever discussed by the clubs. Per Law's midseason rankings from last year, Tucker was #32 and the other 2 guys weren't present. Based on those rankings, it is a light offer.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 15, 2016 -> 06:29 PM) Bleacher report suggested two deals for the sox Quintana to the Rockies for Rodgers, Hoffman and freeland Robertson to the nationals for Stephenson and severino Thoughts? Nationals deal looks pretty good to me; can't say I know a whole lot about those guys; if Severino is adept defensively then I'd say yes. Two good positions, for sure. As or the Rockies, I like Rodgers, but not a big Hoffman fan; can't give a good reason for it, just my feel. I'd prefer Pint...need to stock the back minors too. Don't know much about Freeland, except that his numbers look spotty. I'd hope if we did a deal with Colorado, we could get more position players. But one thing occurs to me is that if they want Q, they may want to deal with some of their excess at outfield. I'd think they may try to arrange a three-way and move Cargo or Blackmon to team C, get Q,and the Sox would get prospects from Colorado and especially team C.

QUOTE (rowand's rowdies @ Dec 15, 2016 -> 04:30 PM) Just saw Matt Adams is available. Without knowing their values too much, what about more MLB ready hitting talent like Adams & Grichuk? Pair those two with Reyes for Q? Maybe we throw in Melky? Am I way off base? Last year it would have made sense to go after them to plug holes; it might make sense in 3 years to get similar players. But they are average players with too little time left of control for it to make sense now.

While the urgency on Quintana is more on the Astros side than the Sox, it is in the Sox best interests to get him moved by July, if not by the end of March. This is a unique period in which the free agent pitcher class is dismal. That will change next year; as such, it won't be near the seller's market as that which exists today.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 12:04 PM) Up to $8 million for Holland of all people? Ugh. I was hoping it'd be half that. That seems excessive. Did they look at his dismal peripherals? Hahn doesn't go down easy paying this money to these declining veterans - it's something he has to get out of his system before he starts building the team back up. It's no big deal this year, but it's not the way to fill holes on a winning team.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 11:46 AM) I can't see the rangers putting a package together that wouldn't really hurt their mlb roster Their farm took a hit with their deadline deal for lucroy and jeffress. Gallo can't hit, don't even talk about profar... I don't see it working I have little interest in a Ranger ML roster package anyway - Profar can't (or at least hasn't) hit and he has only 3 years of control; Odor is good, but he has 4. Mazarra came down to earth in the 2nd half. Gallo looks to be a flop. I assumed they had a bunch of good prospects, but apparently they don't. I guess it's Astros and Rockies. I seem to recall the Rockies having a 3B prospect who was blocked by Arrenado...he may have backslid some. And they have a few top 50 guys.

No. I will not and simply cannot root for the Sox to lose on a day to day basis. The losses will happen and the Sox will get a high pick. And as per above, the Cubs got a lot in trades of mediocre pitchers...lucky really. The Draft helped them. The Astros are the team that was really fueled by the draft. They got very little in their dispersal trades, but a lot of their acquisitions were riskier low minors guys.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 10:38 AM) You do not just trade Sale and Eaton and call it an offseason, that would run counter to performing an impactful rebuild Trading Eaton and Sale effectively punts on the next two seasons, so why keep players around any longer than they need to be? I will not trade them for less value than they are worth, but by the deadline in 2017 you will see pretty much every tradeable asset moved Agree..and hopefully Quintana is moved before the start of the season. I keep looking at AL west...The Astros Rangers and even Mariners are reasonably close and someone should push the chips in for him.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 09:08 AM) He'd never clear waivers. I think the idea is that the player would be a FA (such as when you don't offer an arb eligible player) and would sign back with the club that released him.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 06:41 AM) It's way too early to assign a ceiling to guys like Call & Fisher. They may not have flashy tools, but other organizations have had great success drafting pure baseball guys like them and ending up with 3-4 WAR type players. Or even 2-3 WAR. Other than 1 more bat, that was what was lacking the last few years. The Sox just weren't solid around the diamond and on the mound. Some 2-3 War volume, instead of 1-neg 1 WAR volume, who have made the difference. Now they needed a lot of that volume. That said, they will need some all star level talent; hopefully that can be developed and attempted via some of the silly-stuff we've seen the last decade. As for Q, I think the Astros will come back to the table. The Sox negotiated down from Devers to 2 other players; similarly, they wanted Musgrove and Martes; just take one and 2 lesser players, plus Tucker (who should be a must). I also wonder about Seattle...they sure could use Q.

Isn't the idea that teams will use some loophole - sign him for a modest amount, agree to DFA him after 1 year (or whatever it's called when you let a player go early in career, and he agrees to sign back for some predetermined massive amount?

Ideally let Robertson close for 2 months, hope he's lights out and trade him in early June. Jones the closes for 2 months and trade him in late July. Maximize value for both. And to turbo maximize, let each pitch 2 innings a few times....that seems to be an appealing feature these days. I just don't see Robertson bringing back more than a couple of modest prospects right now. I'd roll the dice with him into 2017 as there is room for improvement. Another approach would be to reverse their roles. There's no question that Jones is effective but can he close? Let him show them. No question Robertson can close, but did he lose his effectiveness? That can be tested in the 7th and 8th just as well as the 9th. Jones' overall game and peripherals might have beeen maxed last year- a few more saves would help though. But no necessity to move either now.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 13, 2016 -> 10:06 PM) Wouldn't be a surprise to see Engel or May up there as well...especially if Tilson is reinjured or can't hit well enough to hold down the position, and/or if Melky Cabrera is finally dealt. Nothing would be totally shocking, not even Courtney Hawkins getting at-bats if he somehow manages to pull off a hot streak in the minors. Absolutely. Open audition time.

I suggested Holland a couple of weeks ago. But, honestly, he'll probably be like latos. Those K totals from last year are alarmingly non-existent. But, then again, why not.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Dec 13, 2016 -> 05:40 PM) Slight exaggeration here. He has his flaws, but is still a legitimate MLBPer, just not as good as we all had hoped when we got him. Too many posters here treat him as if he were some hobo off the street corner. Well by the grace of a sell-off, he's got another year to show the world he can hit. I've always had a lot of patience with him (although it's about dried up) because he actually walks...that suggests that there is at least kernel of pitch recognition in his skill-set. That's what this year is for anyway. the Sox will try out their ML ready prospects and see who is a keeper: Tilson, Coats, Avi, Davidson, Saladino, Sanchez and others should all get lots of playing time. Maybe there are a couple of keepers in the lot. And they'll do the same with all of those (what seem to be) AAAA relievers they loaded up on the last couple of years...a few got several outings last year.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 12, 2016 -> 09:40 AM) I would love to see them dig into the Dodgers position player prospect stash, and taking on a player or two in salary relief to do it is perfectly fine with me. They just have so much talent laying around, including power bats, catchers, July 2, and Cuban players so you really can build any kind of deal you want with them. Agree The Dodgers aren't the Stewart/Larusa Diamondbacks...aren't selling prospects to save money. And the Whitesox don't like bad money.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 12, 2016 -> 05:42 PM) I'd target Arroyo and Beede easily. Their system is much to be desired, so I think we can definitely get a couple of their top prospects. For Todd Frazier? doubtful For Frazier, the team doesn't need a great farm. Maybe the sox could take Trevor Brown off their hands plus a prospect; he looks to be a capable defensive catcher.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 12, 2016 -> 04:53 PM) Tucker is a fine centerpiece to the deal and gives the Sox a monster corner OF prospect to lean on. Agree

QUOTE (kwill @ Dec 12, 2016 -> 04:13 PM) I actually think that Frazier is an extension candidate if he wants to stay through the rebuild. Reasoning: Right now people want to underpay because he had a bad year. My belief is at some point in a new contract you will have an opportunity to trade him. His defense will likely improve making him probably in the range of a 3 WAR player. We have currently no replacement in the system. This will give them time to develop somebody. Turner got 4/64. I would assume Frazier gets under that, 4/55-60. Pretty reasonable deal. Downside: He is in his prime and will be leaving by the contact ends. Paying for 2 years where we will not be competitive. More downside Last year was the worst full season of his career; it came after a dreadful 2nd half of 2015. He's okay defensively - but I Don't see how his defense improves. On other notes - Yes, Jones should have good value; to max it, let him close; of course, Sox may get more marginal value building up Robertson until July; last year's mediocre year stares trading partners in the face. But Jones should absolutely be on the block. Here's another one - Burdi. He was drafted for quick ascendancy to the major league bullpen; well that isn't the priority any more. Put him out there, and trade him if he pitches like they think. Hahn has done a good job tearing down and trading for minor leaguers. But he and Williams have got to do a better job in their own house: drafting, development and international signings. Further, they have to improve their major league scouting (someone scouted and recommended Shields). But most of all, Hahn and Williams have to do a much better job building around this new core than they did building around the Sale/Q core.