GreenSox

This man was the hero last night and recently. He got the Sox out of the big jam. And then pitches another inning. He did the same thing the last game the Sox won, protecting Rodon's W. Robertson and Q are holding their value, but Swarzak's should be soaring.

They have to move Frazier. No need to keep him around or re-sign him. Davidson's fine for a stop gap, plus an audition to see if he's more.

Some Brewers Brinson 16 Woodruff 43 Hader 61 (fell from 31) Ortiz 67

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 7, 2017 -> 06:36 AM) How about when the Astros recently traded Josh Fields for Yordan Alvarez? That's a really good example because Fields was far worse than any pitcher that anyone contemplates the Sox trading. It would be like getting something for Pelfrey. One can just look at pure scrap-heap pickups to find gems: start with everyone's favorite team - the Brewers - and Jesus Aguilar.

North - has anyone seen Louie Lechich? He's a minor prospect i know, just one I find intriguing. His stats are good, other than he walks way too many. Just wondering how he is progressing.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 7, 2017 -> 06:42 AM) Verlander/Avila to Cubs for Almora and a few minor league pitchers Let's see if the Cubs have any interest in the Sox 1.5 WHIP pitchers. I assume that Verlander has kept his velocity or most of it (considering the apparent demand for his services) but he's also 34.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 6, 2017 -> 07:36 PM) We're talking about a guy who if all goes well could conceivably land an Andrew Miller type return in just a few years, while other potential guys at that spot could very still be in the minors. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't waste an early pick on just any reliever, but I think a guy like Burdi is well worth it. Of course that's only if he turns out to be the absolute elite. What if he turns out to be a really good reliever- say David Robertson. I guess we'll found out soon enough what the flip value is. A really good position player or starter is simply worth more. And, obviously an elite starter or position player is worth a lot more than an elite reliever.

The best relievers - the tippy top -are, what 3 WAR players? Ceiling 3 WAR is not a judicious use of a first round pick. Burdi was the reputed "fastest to the majors" guy in the draft. And the Sox needed bullpen help and were taking their last "we're still in it" gasps at the time. They wouldn't have drafted him in a rebuild. But he looks like a good pitcher, so it's fine.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 6, 2017 -> 01:18 PM) I can buy your premise if the guys we get for Swarzak have a chance to help a contending team someday but I severely doubt that. A lot of good major league players were nondescript prospects when acquired. Acquire enough of them, and you will hit on some. It's a no-lose situation to trade players who are impending FAs, which includes Swarzak.

QUOTE (striker @ Jul 6, 2017 -> 09:55 AM) If he starts closing, he get's more expensive as well, which would impact his trade value. That's certainly true; Andrew Miller had good trade value ( and a low arb salary) with Boston without closing. Speaking of 27 year olds - Miller's another one who wasn't productive until around 27.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 6, 2017 -> 11:50 AM) Why are you arguing against the sox shooting high? The Reds guy has more value, and should cost more, but that doesnt mean the sox should start with a lowball offer I'm not arguing against them shooting high and I agree they should neither start (and this is beyond the start) nor accept a lowball offer. I am arguing for being realistic, esp. as other relievers start crowding the market.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 6, 2017 -> 11:40 AM) The Nats have no leverage, are a legitimate WS contender besides their bullpen, and literally need 4 or 5 arms. The asking price should be astronomical. You can always lower it later. Their leverage will increase when and if more closers hit the market. The Reds' guy has twice Robertson's value: younger, cheaper, more control, having a better year.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 6, 2017 -> 11:21 AM) Yeah, after this winter, hopefully they are asking for Soto and offering no salary relief. He's #12 in BP. That would be a heist. Robertson's not worth that (or even close to that).

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 6, 2017 -> 11:06 AM) If teams want Robles/Soto, I could see why the Nats are aiming higher than Robertson. True, but I hope it's not the Sox asking for one of those 2 because it's not realistic and not happening.

Just hope the Royals keep playing well...they have a lot of good players to sell, should they desire. But they have a real chance at the division and have one kernel of hope that gives them a chance at the big banana: they won the Seasonal Series v Astros (small sample size, admittedly). Swarzak would be a nice, affordable, add to their bullpen.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jul 6, 2017 -> 09:52 AM) Agreed. Even if the best offer isn't great, you gotta pull the trigger. For the sake of getting anything back and opening a spot for someone else on the roster. Unless there are multiple suitors for Frazier, which I don't see, the Sox will get less than Frazier's true production value. Other teams know that he has no value to the Sox in holding him, so they don't have to offer top dollar. Hahn will have to pull the trigger anyway, as you said. The same is true for Swarzak and I think Robertson, too (the Sox retain some value by holding Robertson, but it falls off a lot)...but there should be multiple suitors for those 2, which should help the return.

Tatis #22

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jul 6, 2017 -> 09:02 AM) I'd lean towards holding on to Kahnle, as I doubt the right return would be on the table for him at this point. If he continues to pitch this well he could be a very valuable asset at the deadline next season. Agree

If Kahnle starts closing games once Robertson is moved, and if successful, then he would look a lot like Thornburg in basic stats. Similar age, too. Probably better held than traded at this point.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jul 6, 2017 -> 07:47 AM) There are posters who think Hahn is going to gut this team by the end of July. I really doubt that. I think he will make a big splash with either Q and/or Roberston as well as 1 reliever and Melky and/or Frazier. If he unloaded numerous players from the roster, he would have to turn to Charlotte which is a very mediocre AAA team. That in turn would require backfilling from AA etc. In essence, by wholesale dumping as the ML level, you promote young players at all levels who are not ready. I think Hahn will make a few deals this month to add young prospects from teams that are desperate. But he will wait until the offseason to unload the rest of the deadwood. There really isn't much deadwood to sell in the offseason and I don't see them having to dip too much into Charlotte. Trade Robertson and Swarzak (who again is a FA) - down 2 in the pen...this will be a big downgrade and require some Charlotte filler - but they have no choice. Swarzak can't be moved in the offseason, and the Sox will lose a lot of Value on Robertson by holding him. Robertson has got to be moved. If they trade Q, then, they just move Holmberg back into the rotation and the Sox are where they have been for most of the season, but with Rodon replacing Q for the 1 competent pitching spot in the rotation. Frazier and Melky are free agents. And if they move them, then Davidson plays third every day instead of DH; and W Garcia or someone plays left. And that will create room for L Garcia when he comes back. The starting staff, minus Rodon, is deadwood, but they're all FAs. Unfortunately none are tradeable (maybe Holland, but not for much). On another note, the Cardinals might have been a good spot for Frazier...but they are fading again.

QUOTE (maxjusttyped @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 06:58 PM) This finally being the year players ~12-25 on the roster aren't complete back holes is ironic considering that's what prevented the Sale/Eaton/Q/Abreu teams from ever really competing. If Leury, Davidson, Yolmer, & Avi were producing like this last year the rebuild likely never happens. Maybe not, but they'd have still had a 3 man starting staff (like they had in most "go for it" years) and they'd have either had to fix it to an extent (doubt there was much in the farm to get more than 1 starter) or it would have been about like this year, with maybe 5 or 6 more wins. I would also point out that they couldn't produce like this last year, because they didn't play on the ML team for the most part.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 10:42 AM) For the millionth time, minor league W/L records system strength. There's certainly a causal relationship in A, A+ and to some extent AA if you're looking top-bottom and beyond the top 15 players. It is mostly prospects who are playing the games. AAA with all of the AAAA players, not so much. Rookie leagues - a lot of players are at different stages of development; if you are loaded with college players and not winning, you are inept. As for the system, maybe top 3-5 as far as top end talent, but it was never top 5 from top to bottom...still a lot of work to be done.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 12:17 PM) Song=crap. Flawed player with little likelihood of being MLB guy. That's not off the table at all for Swarzak. The guy has performed very strongly though. I think his lack of track record will bog him down despite a great 2017. He was decent in 2011, good in 2013, decent in 2016, despite the ERA; He was bad in 2012 and 2014 and basically sat out 2015. He's inconsistent, but he's good in 2017 and only 2017 is being traded. There will be worse relievers moved. Lack of track record would apply Kahnle as well.

If some team offers the value equivalent to the way he's pitched, they should absolutely move him.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 28, 2017 -> 08:39 AM) It also may come with an opportunity cost...let's say the Braves made Albies available but we felt the need to stick with TA because of the extension...which, whether it is Albies or some other guy, to me seems like a plausible scenario. I hope the guy bounces back...the last couple of games he at least has had some good PAs. Then that would be the FO ignoring sunk cost. The Astros signed Jon Singelton to a premature (in retrospect) pre-arb extension, and instead of compounding their losses, he's sitting in the minors...despite the fact that First Base remains one of their weaker positions (relative to the Astros). Further, this is rebuild...they need to acquire the best talent regardless of position. They can't start penciling in prospects onto the major league roster this early in the process. A lot of these guys will flop....and when one does, it's "next man up."