GreenSox

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 09:41 AM) You do realize Holland was brought in to hopefully flip, and Pelfrey was signed to a minor league contract after being released as depth? Hibbard and King were potentials in Himes' core. But after that season they both fizzled. King got traded for someone worse in Cory Snyder, and Hibbard after a couple of mediocre seasons was taken in the expansion draft. After 1990 they both pitched about like what Holland and Pelfrey are giving the team now. Hibbard and King were in their mid 20s with very little mileage on them. Yes they had short shelf-lives*, but they were nothing like Holland. They weren't great, but they "bridged the gap" while the big guns developed. The Sox record on picking up these old veterans is putrid....they are so bad that they are unflippable. *each had basically 1 bad year and never pitched again - could have been injury. I just think some competent pitching, while rebuilding, will help. I am also not in favor of intentional tanking for the sake of a couple of draft spots advantage, while many are (and I understand their reasoning).

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 09:12 AM) Ah yes, the comp pick. That's what it was. This is when comp picks first started right? So Beane traded Adkins for Durham and then got a comp pick (or picks) in the 2003 draft after he walked. I loved me some KW as GM until recent years, but good god did he have some epic fail moments. He had a lot of talent to work with when he took over. Looking back, I think his biggest weakness is that he frequently lacked pitching...2001-2004 was plagued with fifth starter problems; and 2012-2016 had 4th and 5th starter problems. They rent what they thought was a top of the rotation guy, when they really needed some good rotation depth. That's why I really hope that they start silently loading up on pitching as they move some of their pre arb players (who probably have some value) as they bring in the better prospects. Plus, the major league team needs some more dependable young pitching, instead of another round of Holland and Pelfrey. 4th or 5th starter types like they used to rebuild in 1990 - Eric King and Greg Hibbard were 4th starter talents, but they stabilized that 1990 rotation in what was a very quick rebuild after the team was torn down a couple of years before.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 09:03 AM) Dude, I still remember where I was when that trade went down and couldn't believe that's all we got. Did we simply refuse to eat any money on his contract? I forgot why the return was ultimately such garbage. Because Kenny Williams was naive and inexperienced. We'd have gotten more with a comp pick. Not only did they sell him for a dime on a dollar, I didn't know why they had no interest in re-signing him. He was consistent as heck and didn't sign for that much.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 08:58 AM) That still is disgusting Yep

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 07:54 AM) If we are getting back much of anything for our rentals, you can't be really disappointed. I agree for this rental and Melky. Swarzak is producing - I'd like to see a little something for him.

QUOTE (Al Lopez's Ghost @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 11:25 PM) Twitter says Ockimey, Hernandez,and Lozada That would be highway robbery.

I'd like to see Renteria push another inning out of Shields and save the bullpen...not so much for the relievers that pitched tonight, but it carries over to the guys who will likely pitch tomorrow night and whom they need to protect. He was under 100 pitches and it was a good start for him (albeit with an ERA of 6).

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 11:17 PM) Maybe Davidson goes full time 3rd and Delmonico becomes the full time dh? Just throwing s*** out there. Makes sense.

QUOTE (JLarucci23 @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 10:44 PM) Who is Rick Slattery? Is he the prospect or the source of the rumor?

What does "Cheap prospect" mean? heck Devers is cheap - minor league salaries aren't much.

A certain familiar outfit just blew an 8-0 lead....they could use a bullpen upgrade themselves.

I can't be picky for Frazier. There will be a lot of oohs and aahs for pop ups that fall 30 feet short of the Green Monster.

QUOTE (Knackattack @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 09:16 PM) I feel like if this was close he wouldn't be playing Agree

Has he been pulled?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 08:39 PM) He's ready to play now. That means moving TA/Moncada/Sanchez...considering where our window is, I'd have preferred Jimenez as well. I could go either way. Jimenez certainly has the better hit tool. They're going to have to address Sanchez/Saladino soon enough. Sanchez is #15 in WAR - middle of the pack is well above utility infielder. Could get something decent for him (young pitching! ).

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 08:35 PM) Definitely like Jimenez/Cease over Albies/Newcomb, even despite Newcomb's handedness. Albies just was never a good fit for us. Why not? Not exactly flush with SS. One issue is that a lot of these guys don't really have a position. They will hopefully grow into one.

Have no interest in any intentional tanking...I'd like to see the maneuvers start to rebuild this outfit. Hopefully some young pitching for some of these Sanchez types perhaps. It will be a bad record anyway. To keep it going, they'll always need pitching in the pipeline. Lack of it really cost the Sox in the last decade.

QUOTE (beautox @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 02:17 PM) I'm all for eating Frazier's remaining money(6M) while eating 1/2 of Sandoval's remaining contract; roughly 50M including the buy out. To get a package like Groome + Chavis + Okimey & Beeks. Essentially paying 25m for Groome and Chavis, Sox would be giving them roughly an additional 20M of breathing room since they wouldn't be getting hit with a 40% overage, so in essence nearly clearing them from the tax burden of the contract and give them more flexibility in free agency and acquisitions in the future. And for whom would Boston need to clear that salary room so as not to hit the Tax? Re Sandoval, just DFA him upon acquisition, please.

Undetermined. The teardown went fine and is nearing completion. Soon, it will be time to build the team back up. It may be that time already. The buildup is the hard part.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 01:26 PM) I don't even necessarily think he is a flash in the pan...but I don't think he has the ceiling that Andrew Miller has...that dude is just unreal. If the offer is there to get a guy you really, really like, you move Kahnle. But otherwise, I'd be willing to gamble with him a bit. Yea Don't move him for a meh prospect. Move him if it gets the Sox who they want.

Melky would be an upgrade for the Royals at DH and a offensive upgrade in LF. Since he's not worth much regardless, trade him for high K and high BB Skoglund

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 09:37 AM) Realistically, a guy like Hand should get 1 Top 50-100 prospect and 1 more decent prospect (organizational top 20) in return. The ask can be higher, but I doubt they get a Miller/Chapman level return. Kahnle is interesting as his peripherals are outstanding this season, but the track record is not great. Relievers are getting to be very valuable trade chips now, as 7th/8th innings in the playoffs are seen as crucial to success. Will a team like the Nationals be willing to part with significant prospects for relief? They likely will have to. I'd be inclined to hold Kahnle, and let him close for a year. There's some risk that he disintegrates, but it's worth the risk, imv. Hand will be interesting.

QUOTE (balfanman @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 08:53 AM) Victor Caratini Cubs got him for Bonifacio. Man they recycled their garbage well.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 08:13 AM) In regards to Robertson, that's because he's a "closer" on a team that doesn't win much. It's tied to his usage. Swarzak gets a lot of high leverage situations which ideally, on a better team or even just on a team where he was utilized more properly, David would get too. That's true. Volume is an ingredient in WAR. I think Swarzak has earned his #8. He's produced in those high leverage situations.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 07:11 AM) I didn't get the sense that Theo or the Cubs would be criticized for making this move. I actually think Theo being willing to do this somewhat dispels the notion that Rick has his sights set too high. Hopefully other GMs will step in now (Hello, Mike Rizzo!) and under the cover which Theo has provided and have the spine to augment their ballclubs. Professional GMs understood the true value of Quintana (although few were willing to pay it). Fans (not the Sox fans, but others) way undervalued him. But by the same token, I think fans may over value Robertson. He's 37 in WAR among relief pitchers (maybe he's better than that on the more advanced stats - don't know). I think any real value is tied to "proven closer" - which probably begins and ends with Nats. By the same token, Swarzak is #8. Wonder how high the sights are set on him; not sure where they should be set either.