GreenSox

This is true to an extent; but they are also mentally damaged right now. and I know I'm a broken record, but the lack of development of young pitching is part of the problem because it requires band aid after band aid when you can't put a guy from the org in there.

Cooper gets too much of a pass. A lot of input into strategic and player personnel decisions. An org guy (i.e. Williams guy), not a RV guy Thornton was a decade ago.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 29, 2016 -> 12:38 PM) They already signed Alexei Ramirez from the Sox, which hasn't panned out. At any rate, that Anderson trade must have had $10-20 million AT LEAST coming along with it to POSSIBLY justify giving up Anderson. There is no justification for giving up Anderson for Shields. He's a dependable innings eater. But his WHIP is also .10 ticks above where it was when he last pitched in the AL. Shields is salary dump stuff. And if Williams thinks that the lack of a starter is what ails this team he has his head in the sand. This team is a headcase. No dumping of prospects for band aids is changing that.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 29, 2016 -> 09:34 AM) Shakes off a loss like that? They've had two straight weeks of losses like that and haven't shaken off s***. I don't know how you shake it off, other than this is about the 3rd or 4th meltdown in the last 3 weeks so perhaps they have been numbed to the effects, and have only one way to go after hitting rock bottom.. I know I have...when the Sox blow, say, a 2 run lead in the 9th I usually feel sick to my stomach. Not yesterday...used to it.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 29, 2016 -> 08:41 AM) While I agree with your underlying point, I'm not sure any team can just shake off a loss like yesterday's. The team needs to string together a few wins to truly to get rid of the bad taste yesterday's loss has certainly left in everyone's mouths. A win today would obviously help though and you can't ask for more than Sale on the mound. You're right...but I wonder if they ever shook off the Texas meltdown. That's when this all began. Yesterday's was monumental...happens once a decade. The Texas-type meltdown happens fairly regularly. For sure, the team hasn't been the same since game 2 in Texas. I remember Ozzie's FIRST game as manager....opening game in 2004. KC scored 6 in the bottom of the 9th to beat us. Ozzie publicly put it all on his back....blamed himself for putting Marte (who got no one out) in a bad position. Sox won game 2. I thought that Ozzie's plus skill early on WAS the clubhouse. But not in the happy summer camp sense.

QUOTE (southside hitman @ May 28, 2016 -> 02:27 PM) Keith Law's second mock as the Sox passing on Corey Ray for Blake Rutherford. He had this to say… I've also heard Rutherford being someone the teams with large bonus pools might try to get to slide into the sandwich round or high second round." He's a top 10 talent. How will teams get him to slide into the sandwich/2nd round? I get the theory of some of this...you reach in the first round, but sign the reach below slot. That gives you money to pay above slot in later rounds to guys who have to be overpaid to entice them to go pro instead of college (like Adams). Not sure how it applies to Rutherford.

As for the "good in the clubhouse" stuff, we'll find out today. A team shakes off a loss like that if they have a good clubhouse leader. Sale is pitching today....shouldn't be any problem. Being good in the clubhouse does not mean running a summer holiday camp where everyone is happy and lazy because there is no accountability.

QUOTE (gosoxgo2005 @ May 28, 2016 -> 07:32 PM) If this is the actual package you absolutely do it. Expensive, yes. But shields is a good pitcher. If shields is your 3-4 starter that's a good rotation. 1.3 WHIP against NL competition. 34 years old Nowhere near what he once was...i.e. another decliner. ON the hook for 2 years after this with a little less than $60 million owed. How does that warrant any substantive package of players?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 28, 2016 -> 05:38 PM) So much for adding the hitter we actually need about 2-3X as much... Well, then again, if Carson Fulmer's not to be counted on for 2017, they have to do SOMETHING, but this isn't the first move that comes to mind. He's owed like $60 mill; should be able to get him for his salary if you must have him.

This is the kind of garbage incompetent trade that has resulted in 1 playoff appearance in a decade.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ May 27, 2016 -> 01:10 PM) Has a lower OBP and OPS than Leury Garcia. Maybe L Garcia should be tried as utility guy. He's been terrible in the majors offensively, but he's never hit like he has in the minors before either.

There are a lot of guys having good years. Not all good prospects are drafted in top 3 rounds. Caveaat, of course, is that I only look at stats, which isn't real scouting. Sox still punt too many draft picks with relief pitchers, etc. Certainly some hitters in Charlotte worthy of trying out on the southside.

Fulmer had a bad delivery in college, but given the success of Sale, the Sox seemed to overlook that and we're confident they could either fix it or teach him to pitch around it. I hope this is a result of them taking the time to try to smooth out the mechanics. He was not a universal top 10. I wante the Sox to take the guy the Cubs picked right after, who was the best college hitter in the draft. I don't know if he's done anything or not.

No need to blow it up. Dump Rollins and Sands, call up Hayes or Coats, insert Saladino to firm up the defense. Move Melky to #2. See how it goes. In July or Augusr get a salary dump pitcher or hitter....but for salary, not the requisite Williams fare of 4 prospects.

No need to blow it up. Dump Rollins and Sands, call up Hayes or Coats, insert Saladino to firm up the defense. Move Melky to #2. See how it goes. In July or Augusr get a salary dump pitcher or hitter....but for salary, not the requisite Williams fare of 4 prospects.

To be fair, some of the hits off of Albers were doinks, abetted by Rollins' lousy defense. He can't hit right handed pitching at all, his D shows his age, and Cooper/Ventura insist that he play 5/7....maybe it's Rollins who should get the DFA.

They could make some changes right now just using Charlotte. Rollins is embarrassing against right handed hitters...play Saladino, he can handle it defensively at least, and letting him hit is an investment, which is more than you get letting Rollins hit. They could dump Sands and call up any number of guys from Charlotte. Why don't they? Is it yet another Robin/Cooper thing?

QUOTE (soxfan85 @ May 26, 2016 -> 10:41 AM) Coop didn't fix 'em. He hasn't fixed much of anything in ages. But Shark wasn't a guy who was supposed to need any fixing.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 27, 2016 -> 10:18 PM) He doesn't need to go, but he should only be used in low leverage situations until he proves otherwise. Agree. he hasn't been pitching well anyway, so why use him with men on base tonight?

Keeps a happy Clubhouse. Willing to let Cooper can call the shots. Along with Cooper, a reliable dugout mole for the front office.

Cooper leaves iffy starters in too long game after game after game. Hire a real manager Williams.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ May 25, 2016 -> 07:53 PM) Just face it. It won't get better until this team is gutted from the top down. Front office is what needs gutting.

Williams' trades over the last decade hurt because they did not help the team. He has consistently used Sox assets poorly. As for Rios, we got a utility infielder for him.....Rios had better numbers at the time of the trade than several guys that people want to trade serious prospects for today.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 27, 2016 -> 08:25 AM) GreenSox, the Twins and Astros are not in the greatest of shape. The Royals and Pirates are getting near that point where their windows are closing more than opening. With the Mets, collecting that many young arms seems to be a little bit of an anomaly or "luck" rather than a systematic approach. And they're still a NY team with NY resources (despite the Wilpons), so not sure we can exactly credit them with "doing things the right way." There is a massive middle ground between the Twins/Astros and what Kenny Williams insists on doing. Every winning team has a solid young core (well it may not be young anymore, but it was when they started winning). The Sox were doing just that and it was WORKING ...but in the Winter of 2014, Williiams/Hahn immediately reverted to Williams' comfort zone and started trading away the young players for veterans, As for the Astros, i would assume that they learned their lesson with their inane trades for Giles and, Carlos "he must be good - he's a Brewer!!!!" Gomez.

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ May 26, 2016 -> 02:37 PM) Outside of batting Rollins second, RV has done little to contribute to this team's sucktitude over the past couple of weeks. Unless one recognizes Ventura's contribution of ordering players (including the team's best hitter) to make intentional outs via bunting, when behind in the games in late innings. Or letting Rollins bat at all against right handed pitching (addressing that, however, would require Ventura to platoon players, and Ventura doesn't know how to do that). And of course there could be some recognition of generally dubious roster and talent evaluation decisions designed to keep Ventura/Cooper happy and comfy in the dugout.