GreenSox

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 08:37 PM) Yeah, this removes the need for Bruce but the other 2 still make sense unless they are willing to throw the dice on VicieD'Oh for another year. I think they want to give Vic another year and not sell low on him. I do hope they move Alexei. Most interested in Van Slyke among Dodger outfielders. Is arc is still heading up. Don't need complainers on this team, esp with Ventura as manager.

We got our Dunn back! Heck, I like this. They want to be competitive. Beats a trade. And we needed someone to spell Abreu at first as well. Those heels got chippy.

I don't understand the rules. This guy was drafted in 2012 and pitched one inning in the majors. He's not waiver-protected?

OPS in the mid 700s and dropping each of the last 3 years. He'll be 30 next year. Am I supposed to believe that's worth a top prospect? Heck, go get Carl Crawford. He delivers the same; he's only 32 (seems like he's 40, he's been around so long). We could get him and a couple of good prospects for Alexei. Work a 3 way to get Saunders out of Seattle; he's pretty good and could improve. On the WAR comparisons, I note that both he and Bruce are both dreadful defensively. this is more boom/bust, pay for past performance, get likely less in future performance, again.

Catcher may also be a position in which the Sox have some prospects reasonably close who could turn into serviceable major league catchers. I am anxious to see if Phegley can hit ML pitching in 2015, which I assume will be his last shot. Smith had a good year and I recall Northside being reasonably bullish on him. Neito will probably be the AA catcher; he was overmatched in the majors but wasn't that bad either. Flowers was near the top in baseball in throwing runners out. I'll take league average at catcher. To get otherwise, you have to either a)develop your own, b) pay a huge premium or c)try to convince yourself that the Monteros or Castros are elite and even then the clock will strike 12 eventually.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 02:00 PM) I have to image it would be quintana plus just for bruce. Bruce has 3 yrs on his contract. The Cardinals paid for 1 yr of Heyward and 2 yrs of Walden with 4 yrs of miller and 6 yrs of jenkins. Can't imagine what the red would want for bruce. Tho I can't believe the reds have latos, leake, cueto and Simon all going into free agency next yr. That's sucks to lose 4 starting pitchers all at once. Heyward is a much better ballplayer than Bruce and while not coming off of a good year, not a catastrophic year either. Jenkins is an A ball pitcher - yea, he has several years of control just like most A ball pitchers. The Cardinals also have surplus pitching and a strong farm and can afford to make moves like this that just tap off an already excellent team. They also have a reasonable believe that they can extend Heyward. That's why I want to trade Alexei and his 2 years of control. The White Sox are full of holes. Williams appears impatient but I hope Hahn holds him back. 2005 is 2005 (and a pitching/defense team), but the org underperformed during most of Williams' tenure.

upgrade would be marginal. Sub .700 OPS the last 2 years. Flowers was a warrior out there last year; barely had a day off. LF, SP, DH and some defense in LF are much greater needs. How about some young players with upside?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 11:54 PM) Id keep an eye on one of those guys that are free agents next year as well. There are a few that fit with what they are trying to do. My understanding is that they're trying to position themselves to compete for many years. It will be interesting to see how rents comport with that...unless they are confident that they can get extensions without them hitting the open market (which I have seen only once, and that was Garcia who had an in house connection).

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 09:23 PM) a player has 1 bad year and he's pretty much dead to this board. Bruce had a fairly serious knee injury and it affected him all year. You can't just pretend like the guy didn't have an OPS above .800 the 3 years before last. If he was 34 it would be a serious concern, but he's freaking 27 and people are saying things like "deteriorate and decline"? There is such a thing as a down year. he's a good hitter. That's all. And he has the same weaknesses that have plagued the Sox for years (not good OBP; Ks a lot). And it will take the Swisher trade to get him and that was a horrendous overpay even had Swisher performed. He's not worth 2 top prospects when healthy, just like Swisher wasn't. And top prospects remain in short supply with the Sox. Lind had an OPS in the 800s....what did Milwaukee pay for him? What did the Sox get for Carlos Lee and his 850+ OPS? And then there's the injury - he had surgery early last year and did not recover well. That's a huge risk How much should he be discounted because of that? And 2 top prospects is FULL value when healthy, not an injury discount. he's never been an elite ballplayer. The foundation is nowhere near ready to force trades like that.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 09:49 PM) I'm not against scooping up Ike Davis if the Sox have a platoon in mind, sadly that probably means the platoon would be with Tank. No matter what it must be a platoon because Ike Davis CANNOT hit lefties and makes Gillaspie look good. That would be okay for a cheap stopgap.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 09:01 PM) We can't fill our whole roster with 5-6 year cost controlled guys, just not possible. And one bad year does not mean he's declining, it means he had one bad year. It doesn't necessarily mean that he is...but it could mean that he is. Why pay top dollar to accept that risk? The price will be as if he's .800 OPS+hitter (esp if Williams is involved). Get melky if we must "go all in" this year (73 win team going all in is another story). And he wasn't that great to begin with...not nearly as great as people act like he was. High K, mediocre obp. boom/bust type. We don't have enough quality cost controlled player right now. Sox need more. Let Detroit flail away for one more year and then we'll pounce.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 08:54 PM) How is he declining? Exclude 2014 and you honestly feel you can stand by that statement? And i should exclude 2014...why exactly? He's a medicore OBP ballplayer that Ks a lot. You guys act like he has hall of fame skill. He's an equivalent hitter to, say, Swisher when we acquired him (although the strengths/weaknesses are different). He's a Carlos Lee. What team was giving us top prospects for Carlos Lee? Hell, we traded him of a peak year at the same part in his career for a middle reliever and a journeyman CF. Yet, let's go pay 3 times that price today when he's off of a terrible year? The Sox should be trying to get all of the young talent they can get.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 08:46 PM) Do you throw everyone into the "declining veteran" box? Bruce is 27 years old and had a serious knee injury last year. You can hate on his high K rate, but the dude is not at the point in his career where he should be declining. Maybe he "Shouldn't be", but he is in decline. I do classify them as declining if they are declining, which he is. Clown trades like that are a prime reason why the Sox have 3 playoff appearances in 15 years despite a top 1/3 payroll under Williams' watch. The second we have a decent prospect, got to move them. You guys want to pay top dollar for players off of bad years. It's like giving our top 2 pitching prospects for Edwin Jackson and his 5+ ERA.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 08:21 PM) Early. Revisiting talks. Might take Q + Wow - you mean it will only take Quintana and a top prospect to land a high K hitter with a .654 OPS! QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 08:41 PM) Would anybody do Avi, Semien, and Montas for Bruce? The love of declining veterans is getting sillier by the minute. .654 OBP is not good. Nor is 159 strikeouts Hahn would belong in an asylum if he gave Avi or Montas for Bruce, much less both. Spare parts only.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 09:18 AM) They're very unlikely to trade Norris, and Vogt or Jaso isn't the type of return we'd be looking for on Alexei. If they're willing to trade Josh Reddick AND Vogt or Jaso for Ramirez, then it becomes at least a more interesting discussion. I could see Reddick/Jaso as the offer. Not including Norris and probably not Vogt since they control his rights for a long time. No Reddick has 2 years and Jaso 1. Youth please.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 06:09 PM) I'd take Hanley Ramirez's impact bat over Sandoval any day of the week. The question is his health...but that's the same as Kung Fu Panda's weight issues next year, or especially 4-5 years down the line. We've seen it with Prince Fielder already. Hanley has actually had health troubles and a lot of them. Sandoval hasn't. Hanley had an impact bat 5 years ago. Today it's good. Sandoval is younger and plays much better D. Plus, I get the sense that Hanley's a "me first" player and I don't think Ventura is very good at handling those types.

QUOTE (flavum @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 04:43 PM) He got drafted in 2012, so he probably has one more year on that. Obviously, he has a decent shot of being on the 40-man before next November. Just from the standpoint that he'll be competing for the starting 2B job. I didn't realize that Montas was Rule 5 Eligible. He's 21 and rule 5 eligible? I guess that's a downside to the international guys. You sign them at 16 and 5 years starting from 16 isn't that much time so they have to develop quickly.

Melky can hit and doesn't strike out much, but I wish he played decent D. That was a real weak spot on this team. We can trade Alexei and get a good outfielder plus a couple of good a/aa prospects. Sandoval is the position player available, and by far, imo.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 04:14 PM) We can't forget that, as promising as these guys are, there's a VERY good chance that all three of Beck, Danish, and Montas end up as relievers. The latter two, especially, traditonally profile much better in those roles. Not saying we should give up on them, but they aren't the type of guys, IMO, that we avoid long-term SP acquisitions for to avoid blocking them. Danish profiles as a reliever due to his delivery. Montas doesn't profile as a reliever at all, unless the Sox have to rush him on up and devalue their young players. He's 21 years old and his secondary pitches are improving. He may not fully develop, but that's true for any pitcher. But he doesn't profile as a reliever. Actually it scares me a little that he's on the 40 man. I don't think he's rule 5 eligible, and he won't be ready for a rotation spot this year.

It would seem that they need to add Micah Johnson to the 40 man.

Cool article I will point out that had this been written 3 months ago, the Sox longest tree would be a mundane Mike Cameron---->Paul Konerko. I wonder what the longest tree in the major is, including crossing teams.

I'd take a Dodger outfielder if you can get one for basically spare parts. But not for Alexei or a KW type trade for young talent. Melky isn't a good defender, so I'm leery. Signing him would mean we'd have the same poor defensive team.

The Sox have certainly had worse relievers. Good luck Belasario.

well, to me,Mitchell is not a proven dog, and there are some proven dogs on the 40 man

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 02:59 PM) They still have Jared Mitchell, they just cleared him from the 40-man roster. If I'm understanding correctly, he'll be a minor league free agent after this season if he's not re-added to the 40-man roster. There's still time for Buddy's buddy. Well good; I thought he was at his 5 years (if he wasn't , I'm not sure why he was on the 40 man in the first place).