CWSGuy406

Garland, Anderson, and Everett for Vazquez? I'm sorry, but that's way too much. If you make that trade, you're still at step one, because again -- you only have four capable starters. Giving up Garland (for Vazquez), as well as Anderson, does absolutely nothing for me.

Allen, without having a reliable source (such as yourself -- and I'm not mocking you either), that's what I'd think. If I'm the Sox, and hearing about what 'Zona wants for RJ, why not go the extra step (or, it might possibly be a couple less steps, I think Beane is more realistic in what he's asking for for Hudson than Zona's GM is with Unit) and get Huddy, give him an extension, and have a 1, 2, and 3 that no one (outside of the Cubs with Prior, Wood, and Zambrano) could touch with Hudson, Buehrle, and Garcia. I also believe that the Score is dead wrong on this offer. I believe the offer on the table is in the area of three years, 24-27 million, but not exceeding 27 million. JMHO... Wanted to add, too, that I think even if our offer is reasonable in Clement's opinion (eight million per), that he'll choose to stay in Chicago, except on the other side of town (our side ).

I'd take Washburn as an option if and only if we also got an upgrade behind home plate (Pierz...) as well as Cairo to platoon at second. If not, then just spend the money and get a pitcher...

No, that vote was from me. Actually, I read the whole top thing wrong. I thought it read something along the lines of, "If Clement was signed tomorrow by another team, and Kenny made no other moves, would you be happy?" s***. My vote should be yes. Me = .

Kenny's moves aren't going to be made to spite the fans. I can assure you, while I definitely don't like all of his moves, he does what (he thinks) is in the best interest of the team. He could care less if no one in the world likes the trade -- if he likes it, and his advisors like it, he'll make the move.

I don't think that's true... (steff, I know you're gonna kill me, you've posted what happened/hasn't happened 1000 times, but if can you post it again?)

If I get there in time (damn basketball), I might choose to ask him about Jeremy Reed. I just doubt real highly that Reed wasn't on that board that he always talks, when Reed was really the perfect player for this team -- OBP, line drive/gap hitter, left handed -- like I said, exactly what the team needed. Not a complaint on the Garcia trade, just wondering about that. Unfortunately, over the course of saying this, my voice will probably squeek, and I will get laughed at by White Sox nation...

If we don't sign a fifth starter, capable of doing the job (I shouldn't say fifth starter -- I'm talking about another starter, Clement, Perez, someone capable), then I give the offseason a F. Simply put, we've had one problem that's plagued us the past three seasons -- an inability to find that fifth starter who was able to keep us in games. If we get yet ANOTHER year of the same s*** from the fifth starter's black hole, then Kenny ought to be shot. Remember -- some of you are judging the Lee trade based on the fact that we've freed up money. You cannot tell me with a straight face the Lee for Pods and Vizcaino is fair value. OTOH, Clement, Vizcaino, and Podsednik for Lee... You get the point. We need another starting pitcher.

FWIW, for those of you who do care... When the NHL does resume play (be it next year, five years from now), there will be a shootout to decide OT games. I assume the point will still be given out for getting into OT, but, just something to note. And, I hate the idea. It basically means that the team with the most individual talent will win the game that goes to the shootout, even if the other team played an excellent defensive game and didn't have the scoring that night. It takes the team aspect out of the game, and while the casual fan might love the idea, I'm sure it's going to piss off a lot of the more loyal fans who really love the game. For those following who don't really like hockey but sometimes watch, it's basically like ending a basketball game that has gone to OT, and has to go to a second OT, by a dunk contest. It may be flashy and fun to watch, but definitely not how a hockey game should end... For anyone who's attended AHL games this season, have you attended a game that went into OT? How was it? I won't deny the excitement aspect of it, I just don't think that's the right way to extend the hockey game.

One more thing -- what type of pitcher is Kevin Milwood? I don't really know a lot about him. Is he a strikeout pitcher? Groundball pitcher? Can he eat up innings (if he's healthy)? What I'm getting at, would it be a wise decision for the Sox to go after him at a reasonable price?

FWIW, my buddy called me up and said his dad heard on the radio (I'm assuming it's was on ESPN 1000, WGN 720, or 670 the Score) and said the Sox are interested in Pyrzinski (sp?), former Twinkie/Giant catcher. Take it FWIW, I'm not seeing anything on rotoworld or any rumors anywhere else yet...

Good power, excellent range, and a cannon at short. I can see how one can question him being our everyday starter, but I believe it's his time.

Does it really? Let's look at the Red Sox. Two very poor fielders in Bellhorn and Manny. One average fielder in Millar. Then, average to above average fielders in Cabrera, Mueller, Damon, and Nixon. IMHO, too much is made about defense. You pitch well and you hit well, then you'll be alright... The reason we haven't won the division the past couple years is because we've never had the right combo of both at the same time.

Carlos Lee not clutch? I beg to differ. In some of the biggest games this team has had, Carlos has made some huge hits. I.E. 2004 vs. the Cubs -- After Glendon Rusch absolutely mowed down the Sox lineup for eight innings in a row, Carlos Lee comes up in the ninth and bashes a homer out to left center field. And, a couple years earlier (2001 or 2002), didn't Carlos hit a grand slam in extra innings to beat the Cubbies at Comisky? To say Carlos isn't clutch is bulls***. He's come up with his fair share of hits as much as anyone.

Juan Uribe @ a little over league minimum >>>> Edgar Renteria @ Ten Million.

My team has lost two in a row, to Bremen (very poor first half, down 14 going into the second half, cut it to three, but couldn't finish the job), as well as Stagg (played OK in the first half and took a three point lead, then Stagg puts up 32 in the third quarter, dominating us). The game we all look forward to -- Hillcrest -- is on Friday. If there's ever a chance to beat them, now's the time. My team is so f***ing pissed, we've played real poorly the last two games, and we're coming back home, to what will be a pretty packed house. Hillcrest plays HF on Saturday, so they are surely overlooking us Bengals, looking ahead to playing against Julian Wright and gang. On a side note, check in tomorrow's Star/Southtown -- I'm hoping I got put into the paper (my buddy got put in the paper and he only had two points) -- I hit a tre-bird as the seconds died down in our loss to Stagg. Man, my points per minute are through the roof, not to mention a 100% shooting percentage from beyond the arc (1 for 1)...

I'll say this -- wanted to comment about Phil Rogers' Paul Konerko comment. If Paully is willing to stay here for less than six million, then I re-up with him. If not, then there's no need to lock him to a multi-year deal that (if Kenny is dumb enough) might get him upwards of nine million a year. Maybe I'm wrong on those estimations, but I really don't think Konerko is worth anything above seven million. I believe you can find a guy to give you power from first base for under four million, and you have Ross Gload, who's hit everywhere he's been. Who knows, maybe Kenny will make me happy, trade Konerko and get a starting pitcher for Paully, and then sign a power bat (Ideally, JD Drew -- stick him at first, and I'll bow down to Kenny at Soxfest)...

I sort of have a feeling -- just a feeling, I might be way off on this -- but I really think that Clement might take one or two million less just to stay in Chicago. He knows how it is here. He knows how passionate fans of both teams are, maybe his wife is telling him that they really love the city, and that he should really take a good look at the Sox and see if the two sides can come together. Just a thought.

Or, it could finalize the last player in the Milwaukee deal, too...

While taking my shower, I was thinking about this deal, and, just about a lot of things White Sox in general. Let me lay out my problem first, then I'll ask the questions, see if anyone has any insight towards the answer. First, let me put out the starting staff, bullpen, and lineup as I see it, with the number next to their name indicating the number on the 25 man roster (so, no specific order, obviously). First, the starting staff: Buehrle - 1 Garcia - 2 Contreras - 3 Garland - 4 Diaz/Grilli/Schoney/FA Pitcher - 5 And, the bullpen of (this is where one of my problems lie -- does this move kick Adkins out of the bullpen?): Adkins - 6 Cotts - 7 Hermanson - 8 Politte - 9 Vizcaino - 10 Marte - 11 Shingo - 12 And, here's the lineup: Burke/Davis - 13 and 14 Konerko - 15 Harris - 16 (Another question lies here. I'll alude to it later.) Uribe - 17 Crede - 18 Thomas - 19 Rowand - 20 Pods - 21 Dye - 22 And finally, the bench (Good news for Cheat, I think you'll appreciate this -- it looks like Timo Perez will be the odd man out.): Everett - 23 Gload - 24 Valdez - 25 Burke/Davis - 13/14 (Whichever one doesn't start). Alrighty then. First, my question about the bullpen -- do the White Sox normally carry 11 or 12 pitchers? If it's 12, then my question is answered. However -- if it's 11, does that mean Adkins/Cotts and the rest of 'em will be fighting for that one spot? Also, while I really hope that Ginter is the final player of the deal, I'm starting to doubt it more and more. It would kick one of Valdez/Gload/Everett off of the 25-Man, and Ozzie wants, and needs all three of them. I wouldn't call Valdez a need, but if Ginter were to be included, and Valdez were to be sent to AAA, we'd have ONE SS on the roster -- IIRC, Ginter doesn't play SS. I think that's the jist of my questions. I just can't see Harris getting the full reigns of second base, especially how brutal he is against lefties (maybe they're considering Valdez vs. lefties as a platoon?), so that's why Ginter would be such a good addition. But I'm going around in circles -- because if he were to be added, who would we dump? I'd prefer to dump Everett, see if there's ANYONE out there who will take the four million for a low prospect, and use that money towards Clement/Perez. But this is the ideal situation, and of course, Kenny will do anything to make the situation everything but ideal... EDIT: OK, I see that in Kenny's conference call, he says the PTBNL will be a minor leaguer, so screw that thought. Also, you should probably throw my Everett thing out the window -- totally forgot about the whole "Frank Thomas injury" thing... :banghead

One more thing (last post in this thread tonight, I promise ): While it's all nice and good to build a team around pitching and defense, isn't it kind of stupid to build a team built on pitching and defense when you play in the second biggest hitters haven in the major leagues? God, I really hope they move the fences back/move home plate back before the '06 season...

SSI71, in response to your reply: I think a lot of you view as a 'home-run hitter', and that really isn't true. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Carlos Lee was the most complete player on this team. No doubt about it. He's shown consistency in his batting average (.300+ Average both at home and away), he's shown a consistent OBP (IIRC, it's always in the .340-.360 range, which is very good for a power hitter), he's always been a big RBI guy (he's a lock to knock in 90 every year, more like 110-120), and, as been mentioned, he completes this all with his power (30+ homers). People are saying we're going to get better defensively, but I don't think that's true. Carlos Lee played one hell of a LF for us last year, and he has the LF dimensions known inside out, at this point. He knows how far back he's got when he's tracking a deep fly ball, he plays balls that go into the corner (whether on the ground or in the air) almost perfectly, and he's gotten much better on his routes to the ball. His arm has also improved to the point where it's at least somewhat respectable, a far stride from when he could barely three-hop it to the second baseman... EDIT: Gashwound, after seeing your posts, I put the same reply to you. Carlos Lee simply isn't a power righty who K's a lot...

He had a mid-2 ERA on the road. If he's pitching anywhere besides here (and Coors), people would be talking about him as one of the best pitcher's in the game. I have no doubt he'd have, at worst, a 3.50 ERA, if he pitched anywhere else...

But see -- that's what I don't get. You're waiting to judge this deal on what Kenny does with the money... Take it as it is. The trade is, Carlos Lee for Scott Podsednik (sp?) and Luis Vizcaino, with, a PTBNL coming our way (Bruce Levine reported it would be an impact player, but others have reported that it will be a minor leaguer). That's the trade -- if you're judging it based on what they'll do with the money, than your accepting the fact that it's a salary dump -- which is what I believe it is. I'm not gonna go around b****ing about this deal, and annoy the hell out of everyone (like I don't already ), but Kenny just got a lot more unpopular with me with this deal.

I'm definitely more of a Madden fan, but I view this as a bad thing. Now, rather than having competition to put out the best game out there, EA can now slack off and create a sub-par game, just because there is no other competition out there. I don't really like this... (Hehe, I'm not liking a lot of things today...)