SoxAce

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 18, 2009 -> 05:00 PM) Here's my problem with his K's...I can't figure out how it'd be mathematically possible for him to continue hitting at a solid average while striking out 150+ times. In the minors, when he was on fire, and now in the AFL, he's been putting up BABIP values of >.400. Now, I know all the other caveats that go into that about how hard you're hitting the ball, how much bat control you have, etc., but bear with me here. Even the great players can't sustain those type of numbers once they get to the big leagues. Mauer pushed .373 this year with that stat, and his career mark is around .350. If you look at the guys in MLB who struck out 150 times+ last year, which is the pace D2 makes in the minors, you have 2 types of guys. You have Ryan Howard, Adam Dunn, Mark Reynolds...guys who don't give you a great batting average but you don't care because they're hitting 40 home runs. The other guys with 150 k's however, are guys like BJ Upton, Brandon Inge, Mike Cameron. These are guys who are playing because they give some performance with the bat, but they're out there either in the hopes that they'll develop (Upton) or because they have very good gloves. They wind up hitting below .250. Because they're not hitting the ball out of the ballpark, they're not putting the ball in play enough to put up a solid batting average with that number of strikeouts. If Danks stays on the 150k/year pace and is a 15-20 HR guy at best, then he's going to wind up hitting somewhere in the neighborhood of .250/.260 for his career. Against major league pitching, you just can't sustain that number of strikeouts and a really good batting average unless a lot of your hits are leaving the park. Good post and for the most part I agree. It will probably come down to pure potential with Jordan. Scouts have long said this guy has 30+ power potential but so far hasn't fulfilled it. Now I'm sure hitting in the cell will greatly help him (or even the bandbox in AAA like it did Chris Getz) and we all know that he is a very good defensive OF already. We can only hope that he can be a Granderson/Sizemore lite type player that will K 150 times, but still average a good walk rate and good power potential. Who knows though.. he could be traded before ST hits.

Now I really regret forgetting about Pearl Jam (and god dammit the Beastie Boys should be a band. ) I guess hopefully if Knight makes a "fav rap acts list" thread we can wait that out then. As long as the RHCP make the top 10 in this list, all is forgiven in the world.

QUOTE (Fantl916 @ Nov 18, 2009 -> 04:36 PM) This is exactly how i took Konerko to the Angles. We have heard numerous Konerko-to-the-Angles before Those god damn Angles do make alot of sense. I mean they just merit adjusting at times.. with them being all angle-like about it. Sometimes it pisses me off how off those angles are at times myself.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 18, 2009 -> 04:05 PM) Rios has been striking out in about 17-20% of his at-bats since he came up (including his rookie year). Danks has been striking out at 25%. Rios struck out 109 times last season in 630 PA's; at the pace he's been on this year, D2 would K about 150 times in a full season. Alex Rios never had the same plate discipline as Jordan does though. Hell this year, which was Jordan's worst overall (bummed wrist or not) in AA, he still walked 37 times in 284 abs. Alex Rios in AA walked 39 times in 514 abs. I don't care if Jordan strikes out 150 times (which BTW K's are very overrated in baseball even if Riccardi [who lost his job now] doesn't think so when he bashed Adam Dunn) as long as he continues to have good discipline at the plate averaging a good walk rate and hitting at a solid average, he will be fine. Now if he's striking out and averaging Joe Borchard/Brian Anderson type walk rate/numbers.. then there's a problem. I will agree though that it would help if he did put the ball in play more. I will give him the benefit of the doubt that his wrist and hamstring issues did more harm than good in the second part of the year when he was doing very well prior in AA. BTW, what's up with Retherford? Is the work load catching up to him (I believe he's had one of the most PAs comming in to the AFL) or is it just bad luck?

Tracy.. probably the biggest no brainer to win that award for the NL. Scioscia you can more or less have an argument (Gardy probably did more with less talent, even though they needed our help) but you can't mess with the mental boost he gave that Angels team with all the crap they had to deal with.

Peo Javelinas so far has 3 hits. Jordan Danks has 2 of them.

Well wish we woulda done this 2 years ago, but I always liked Blanco's defense, arm and game calling. It'll be interesting to see how he handles the bat here in the more superior league, even as a part time player. Ramon Castro didn't exactly do too well when he came here compared to his Mets days. IF Flowers is traded/org. wants him to get a bit more time in AAA, then I would not mind Blanco at all, especially defensively (hopefully he's at least serviceable with the bat as a backup player).

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 17, 2009 -> 09:59 AM) I was thinking the same thing. They are going to sign triplet 12 year deals. I'm serious, that's a serious guess! Supposedly Duncan Keith will get the long contract and Kane/Toews will probably get shorter contracts, more or less in their prime years to be free agents again similar to Hossa/Lidstrom. http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nhl/news/story?id=4664001

Wow.. I was stunned to see the Kings were an above .500 team (now at .500 after the loss) entering that game. I don't know if they are that bad, but the Bulls made them look that way.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 17, 2009 -> 04:22 PM) If the Bulls could possibly freaking get Ellis for Kirk I'd scream with glee. Agreed. Anything that gets Kirk Hinrich (and that contract) out of here is always a plus in my eyes.

QUOTE (Felix @ Nov 17, 2009 -> 04:15 PM) Rise Against is above Talking Heads AND David Bowie? This makes me feel bad about having Bowie on the outside looking in, barely. I guess I'll consider that payback for the Soundgarden over Pearl Jam ordeal. See it evens out

Just got the response myself.. It is f***ing ridiculous. Now I'm praying this deal goes through making that moron look like even more of a douche.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Nov 17, 2009 -> 12:55 AM) Wow, all three before the road trip? That will be a fun press conference. Hawk fans, enjoy this season. 2011 is going to be rough. Lol, first it was 2010 being rough now 2011 Tony? Will it ever end? I hope we resign Hjalmarsson too. Few friends of mine who watch alot of hockey (for a long time might I add) said he's probably been the best defensemen THIS SEASON for the Hawks overall. (though a couple said second to Seabrook) Should be interesting to see who will probably be gone after this year.. OT: BTW at Seabrook's charity event it pains me to see Kane rocking a Cubs hat, though Duncan Keith's Sox hat made it more easier to stomach. Though it coulda been just politics in the city. I think I remember in an interview Keith preferring the white sox anyways.

QUOTE (bulokis @ Nov 17, 2009 -> 12:49 AM) Good news on Toews, Keith and Kane's extension. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/hocke...0,1592678.story Wow.. Duncan Keith too?! Thats amazing.

Some good quotes by Beckham. One I put in my sig. http://blogs.suntimes.com/whitesox/2009/11..._al_rookie.html And it's good to see the kid wants to improve his D even at second base.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 10:43 PM) I like the outside the box thinking on that one. That would have never crossed my mind but that's an interesting idea. Does Pat's contract end at the end of this season? Yes it was a 2 year/16 mil deal, and not a bad idea at all KHP. I just hope that he doesn't have the "Edgar Renteria" syndrome.. you know.. hit well in the NL, suck in the AL. Then again.. Edgar went back to the NL and sucked again (though he didn't do that 4 years ago).. so who knows.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 09:55 PM) If you read my post you know exactly what I'm saying. Your prior post went on about how Miguel Cabrera has accomplished so much and yet he still hasn't even hit his prime. I read that as if you were saying that once in his prime years Cabrera should be expected to improve upon his current production. If that's what you were saying then I completely disagree with that. If not, I don't know what you would have talked about his prime for. No, no, no I read it.. I just couldn't believe what you said it mostly. I am entirely too lazy tonight though to actually reply back to that however so your off the hook. QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 10:18 PM) Could you imagine the run-producing/OBP potential we'd have with Beckham, a healthy CQ, Gonzalez, and Nick Johnson!?!? It would fix our scoring runs problem and overall offensive production thats for sure. All four of those guys have the "potential" to put up an OBP or .370 or higher. All of those guys (depends on Beckham as the 2 spot might not net as many as more than likely Ozzie will leave him there) and even an Alex Rios will drool of the RBI chances they will net.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 04:38 PM) Cabrera is in his prime now and just because he's entering the ages where most OTHER players break out doesn't mean that holds true for him. There are some very special hitters who reach their primes very early in their careers and he is one of them. Uh.. what? QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 06:06 PM) meaning the guy who owns the site verified the source of the rumor, then posted it on Soxnet and soxtalk. Dont get us wrong, nobody is saying that this deal is signed, sealed and delivered. However, the homework has been done before this report was posted, Soxtalk doesnt want to be known as a site that is just throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks and this is no exception. :headbang Pretty much spot on Kyyle. Net Adrian, sign Nick Johnson to DH (or see what Jason Bay is commanding, though I doubt we net him anyways, and I trust Herm who is one of the best in the business to help keep Johnson healthy) and maybe take a small flyer/minor league deal for Austin Kearns for RF (see if he finds it again, and is outstanding defensively, cause I highly doubt we can trade for Crawford as well IF this rumored deal goes to plan) maybe find one more good BP arm, (maybe KW trust a Nunez, Link, etc?) and I'd call it a hellova offseason. Our defense will be much improved. (barring how Teahan does at 3B.. could even be much, much improved)

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 04:27 PM) Isn't that pretty much how everyone is viewing Adrian, as a 2 year player? I also dislike the term "rental" here. Would you call a FA on a 2-year deal a "rental?" Probably not. Cabrera is paid what he's worth, but it's pretty unreasonable to talk about the length of Cabrera's contract at those figures as a good thing for a team like the Sox. I don't expect the Sox to get any crazier than Peavy's deal, and if we do get Adrian, I'm not going to expect the Sox to lock him up for the long haul. That's pretty much why I called him what I did. The term "rental" mighta been a bit of a stretch, but you know where I'm comming from in this.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 04:26 PM) Are you sure about that? His OPS/OPS+ in both years in the AL are lower than they were the 3 previous seasons in FL. Uh.. yea Year 1 in AL: 129 OPS+ Year 2 AL: 142 OPS+ He's gotten better adjusting to the AL. I think you misread what I was saying. The AL is the superior league to the NL and he had to adjust in year 1, and made the adjustment in year 2. Hell his first year in the AL.. that is some (or a good number of) players' BEST years which is just scary.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 04:18 PM) Come on guys. Miguel Cabrera's OPS at home has actually been much higher than on the road. Sure, Comerica isn't a hitter's paradise, but comparing it to Petco is a f***ing joke. I just hope Adrian does this consistently then I can see it and hopefully isn't a one year thing. Miggy has put up the numbers his entire career (also playing in the NL) and has gotten better considerably making the jump to the AL overall. If we net Adrian.. he'll already have an advantage that Miggy probably will never have.. hitting in a hitter's park. I just find it amazing that Miggy is damn near a full year younger and still isn't even gonna reach his prime yet till next season as far as hitters.

QUOTE (daa84 @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 04:03 PM) miguel cabrera has been a better hitter over the course of their two careers yes. that said...what matters most is what they will do over the next 5, not what they did over the last 2 or the last 5 or whatever. Given the fact that Gonzalez is left handed, a GG defender, doesn't have enormous question marks about his conditioning and commitment (ie getting hammered and driving home at 4 in the morning to fight with your wife the dya before your teams biggest game) and has a ridiculously reasonable contract for a couple years ....id prefer gonzalez over cabrera just about any day of the week You have to remember how incredibly talented gonzalez is ...what he is doing now is what everyone expected him to do when Florida made him the #1 overall pick... bottom line is they are both tremendous, tremendous players and are enormous impact MVP type bats in any lineup Good post and this might be the most reasonable so far, as far as that debate, but I will still disagree with you. Miggy drinks and all that sure (dunno what that has to do with his hitting but I'll play along) but you don't know if he would do the same stuff here, especially considering he and Ozzie are very good friends not to mention Ozzie is alot harder on him than Leyland. Ozzie himself told Miggy to lose the weight last year and Miggy came into Tigers camp in the best shape he was in for like 4 years. That doesn't happen by accident. He said it himself that Ozzie was in his ear that whole offseason about getting in shape. I'll agree though that Adrian does have better defense at this point, but Miggy could improve that (he was playing 3B/corner OF majority of his career) and he's also not been blessed in playing in two horrific hitting parks in Florida and Detroit. I can't even agree with the contract argument as Miggy is basically paid what he's worth into his prime at about 19 mil a year as we can only pray that Adrian would accept anything like that or less when his two years are up. You could potentially say he's a two year rental whereas Miggy is locked up for another 6-7 years at the age of 26 but as of right now.. sure Adrian's contract is much, much better.... as of right now and next year.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 03:58 PM) Close over a 2 year span in which Cabrera had by far his worst season out of the past 6 and Gonzalez had by far the best year of his career. That's dishonest. I mean it's completely ridiculous in my eyes to not see it. Jesus I never thought of seeing Miggy as underrated when he's just a crazy beast of a hitter who happens to be also a year younger doing this now in the AL and getting better year after year.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 03:52 PM) I believe I said one could argue that he's better, and that he's a top 5 hitter in the league. Oh my bad.. "He's more impactful than the great Miguel Cabrera" who was playing 3B and RF before he made the switch to 1B. I just don't agree with that, but f*** the whole Miggy vs Adrian debate and just let the good times roll. QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 03:53 PM) And your argument is based largely on an assumption that his numbers would improve upon leaving a pitcher's park, something that does not always come true and something that never happened to Cabrera. There is no argument to be made that isn't based on conjecture. Exactly. IMO.. take Miggy out of the "great" hitters parks in Florida and Detroit and put him in the Cell and IMO.. he's more of a beast than Adrian would be here.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 03:46 PM) Cabrera's OPS the last 2 years; .915. Gonzalez; .913. He's not exactly better than him for his full career, but Gonzalez's numbers last year were just sick, and he's been trending upwards year after year. Adrian has had only one OPS+ over 150 which was last year. Miggy has done that 3 times before he turned 25 and just had a 142 OPS+ last year adjusting to the AL (which will probably continue to go up this comming season and is a year younger). I love Adrian but saying he's "better" than Miguel Cabrera is utterly stupid. And you can't even use the park factors cause Miggy hasn't had the glorious hitting parks in Florida or Detroit either. Sure you can say they are "close" or even Miggy is "slightly better" but don't bring that hyperbole in this thread. That's all I'm saying.