Jordan4life_2007

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ May 8, 2012 -> 11:19 PM) If Taj plays the Bulls can win. If Taj is out, Noah is out, it just would be a huge challenge. No b****ing about the refs tonight? You know the Sixers shot 13 more FTs than the Bulls, right?

QUOTE (Jake @ May 8, 2012 -> 11:08 PM) Well...do we have a chance at this series? They win game 6, game 7 is a cinch for them at home, IMO.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ May 8, 2012 -> 08:02 PM) Josh Hamilton is 4-4 with a 2b and 3 2-run homers. Should have one more chance to bat in the 9th As I said earlier, the Rangers are going to have a DECISION to make. Josh Hamilton is simply the best all-around player in the AL when he's on the field. And was that a f***ing trade or what? Josh Hamilton for Edison Volquez? lmao. Wow. Jon Daniels for the win. QUOTE (fathom @ May 8, 2012 -> 09:15 PM) Cardinals offense is just going bonkers in the desert right now The Carlos Beltran signing is looking like by far the best of the off-season.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 8, 2012 -> 01:43 PM) It is not like revenue determines payroll or anything... People aren't coming to the park to see PK in late June if the team is 10 games out of first place.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 8, 2012 -> 01:39 PM) The point is, you aren't going to get a major haul for him due to age and contract, even though his contract is fair. And you are limited as to where you could trade him as he has full no trade protection. Then if that's the case he stays. Nobody is advocating giving him away. But this "Well, he's Paul Konerko and we need him to sell tickets" stance is garbage.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 8, 2012 -> 01:37 PM) They keep him because people buy tickets to see him. The same people that you say are so fickle and that we need to win a World Series to please?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 8, 2012 -> 01:34 PM) Trading the face of your franchise for esstentially nothing benefits the team how exactly? John Daniels recognized this and held on to his top player who had much more trade value than Konerko did. He also went out into the free agent market at this time. Who said for nothing? You trade him if you can get some worthwhile pieces back. You don't keep him because he hit a grand slam in the World Series 7 years ago.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 8, 2012 -> 01:26 PM) The total rebuild guys seem to think it won't harm the Sox to be real bad for so many years, but if meaningless baseball with bad players doesn't scare you away, how come the end of September game threads are 2 pages long? That's how they would be in April. Even the biggest diehards would cease to care whether you want to admit it or not. And the anti-rebuild guys seem to think it will take 20 years to be good again and the ballpark will house about 100 people. What part of THIS TEAM SUCKS RIGHT NOW DON'T YOU GET?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 8, 2012 -> 01:23 PM) So you're saying it really wasn't a total rebuild. The guys the Rangers traded weren't 36. That's what I'm saying. This is franchise is going nowhere at the moment. PK is just not an untouchable asset.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 8, 2012 -> 01:18 PM) That has been the suggestion for many posters, on many, many occasions. Trade Konerko, don't resign Danks, etc. Trade Konerko? Yes. And that makes sense. Like I said earlier, PK is not in his twenties. EVERYBODY thought Danks would test the FA market and that we'd more than likely lose out. Everybody wanted him back. Those that wanted him gone wanted to see us get something rather than lose him for draft picks.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 8, 2012 -> 01:14 PM) He also kept and extended the face of the franchise in Michael Young. He also kept Hank Blalock though those times, and signed some other FA contracts, such as Kevin Millwood. The Sox did the same with Konerko. Unlike the Rangers, they don't have anything to supplement that.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 8, 2012 -> 01:03 PM) Not a complete tear down. Not even close. He traded Soriano and Teixeira in a span of like 18 months. This is when they were both superstars. That, to me, is pretty much saying, "look, we're not going to win with what we have. Let's go in another direction."

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 8, 2012 -> 12:54 PM) How many times has this been done successfully in a 3 year time period? I can't recall ever. Even the Rays was spread out over at least 6 seasons before finally catching fire in 2008. Jon Daniels did it in 4 years.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 8, 2012 -> 12:19 PM) That is just arguing for the sake of arguing. Balta doesn't do that.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 8, 2012 -> 12:12 PM) They have Mr. Second Half though at 1B. Way more likely they try to get a big time center fielder. Also, they gave up a lot of their intriguing prospects in the Gio deal. Can we just trade Konerko and Alexei to the Brewers for Carlos Gomez? At least Hawk would be happy. Good point. It'll be interesting either way.

QUOTE (flavum @ May 8, 2012 -> 12:03 PM) He's 36. I love what PK is about, but there's really nobody on this roster that I'd cry over if they moved them. Obviously, guys like Reed and Sale aren't going to be moved. But they need to move on without Kenny Williams, get some new thoughts in there, and let the bad contracts die off without handing out new bad contracts (see: Danks, John). I'm really going to keep an eye on the Nationals. That team looks like it's for real. And it helps that the Phillies can't score. If they're in first or right around first by the deadline, I definitely see them being extremely interested in an impact bat like PK.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 8, 2012 -> 11:47 AM) I'm pro-rebuilding, but I'm also comfortable with the idea that Konerko should be used as a trade chip. I don't think everyone on this site would be on board with that. Other than emotional attachment, which is understandable, there would be no reason to not be on board. PK is not 28. He's 35. He will not be with this team by the time they're ready to compete again. If you could get some legitimate assets, you do it. And he deserves to play for a winner anyway because he's so god-like.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 8, 2012 -> 11:37 AM) Famous last words. BTW, the last time the Sox were irrelavant in your estimation, they still had guys like Lee, Ordonez, Thomas and Konerko in the organization. Thinking they could tear it all down now and rebuild with their current players, it would be hard to imagine it could be done in less than 5 years. If the Sox lost 90+ for 5 years straight, I bet Soxtalk would be pretty dead, and those are the most loyal fans. Frank was coming off his second sub-par season. The other three guys you named were unknowns. Cleveland was winning the division for like the 6th consecutive year. Yeah. I'd say they were pretty irrelevant. As far as what's going on now, we're a virtual lock to miss the playoffs for the 6th time in 7 years. Assuming we finish below .500 (a safe bet), that will be 4 years in that span in which we've had a losing record. Attendance is already sagging. Minimal amount of young impact talent on the major league roster. Not a damn thing in the minors. What I'm saying is, it's already bad. More bad is not really going to make things worse than they already are.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 8, 2012 -> 11:28 AM) Why not? Nothing in the 12 years between 94 and 06 worked, despite having some very good teams, including a division winner. So in other words, we're already defeated no matter what? Because a World Series is definitely not in the cards for this team in the next 5 years.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 8, 2012 -> 11:19 AM) Great point. It took them 12 years to recover those numbers. I don't feel like a decade long rebuilding plan. The White Sox don't have to win a World Series to get out of their current situation.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ May 8, 2012 -> 11:03 AM) I think you are over-estimating the strength of the Sox fanbase anyway. Other than the opening of the new park and the 2-3 years after the WS title, Sox attendance has always been pretty crappy. It's more returning to the norm, not disappearing forever. Eventually someone will produce a winner and the fans will come back, that's White Sox baseball. Cleveland had the longest sell-out streak in baseball history and now is in last place in attendance, that's a way more extreme example. Exactly. Listening to Dick Allen, 2K5, and the anti-rebuild crowd - this franchise should've never recovered from the '94 strike. That was much worse. By '99, the payroll was like $20 million and the Sox were as irrelevant as just about any team in baseball. I'd say they recovered quite well.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 8, 2012 -> 10:53 AM) The Arizona Diamondbacks say hello. If you don't think a decade of horrificness hasn't done anything to harm their fanbase, you are being naive. People who would have been fans had they at least been competitve, moved on to other things. Its happened in Toronto, its happened in Cleveland, and it would most likely happen on the South Side of Chicago. White Sox attendance already sucks, though. How much worse is is supposed to get?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 8, 2012 -> 10:53 AM) The Arizona Diamondbacks say hello. That's a special case. Look how that team was put together.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 8, 2012 -> 10:42 AM) No, the years from 1998-2007 when 91 losses was their best season. If your team is awful for its first 10 years of existence, you may have lost at least one generation of fans, if not more. Nobody expects an expansion team to do anything in their first 5 years or so. Yeah, it took them a while (aka Andrew Friedman taking over). But there's no way in hell any practical fans would be demanding a winner right away. Especially in their division. This argument might've been passable in 2008 when many thought they were a 1-year wonder. But it's 2012 now. They're legit and they're set up for the long haul. There's lots of reasons you can point to for their crummy attendance. Being bad pre-Friedman just isn't one of them.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 8, 2012 -> 10:12 AM) I would say the market probably isn't the best. The ballpark is hard to get to, but not being able to draw 10k is a problem for a team with that roster. They don't have the fanbase a successful team should have, and he could be very right that's part of the reason. Look what happened in Cleveland. They sold out for years, got bad for a long time and now are lucky to get 15k a game even when their team is good. People found something else to do and may never be back. I truly believe if the Cubs ever get down to 15-20k a night regularly, they won't get to their pre Sox WS title levels until they win a WS, even if the team is good. Eventually the hot restaurant or hot nightclub isn't so hot anymore. I think the same thing might happen with baseball teams. Sorry, I don't buy it at all. The Rays haven't been around 15 years yet. Do you really believe a reason the Rays can't draw despite the amazing success they've had is because they sucked in 2004? No way.