Jordan4life_2007

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Feb 17, 2015 -> 05:05 PM) People forget that during his MVP year and the following year, Derrick Rose was god damn near elite defensively. His problem was playing down to competition, but when he wanted to he was a nightmare for opposing PGs. This years Westbrook is close to MVP Rose, but people are really forgetting how damn good he was, even when he couldn't buy a call to save his life. No way. He's either as good or better than MVP Rose. He's putting up the same or better numbers across the board in about 5 minutes less per game. Westbrook is currently 2nd in the league in PER. Rose was 9th in '11.

QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Feb 16, 2015 -> 06:40 PM) The same Jordan that averaged like 30-7-12 against the Lakers that year? The Spurs that lost to Heat in 2013 was largely the same team in 2014. Give me the '91 Jordan who's also better defensively than the 2014 Lebron and I will pick the Heat. Also, I don't see how a 37 year old Duncan, Splitter, Diaw or Donner could contain a prime Shaq. A Shaq and Bosh front line would be the ultimate pick your poison if I've ever seen one. I don't blame Lebron for that Finals loss, but that Heat team could definitely beat the Spurs with a God mode Jordan or Shaq. No, they couldn't. Not with a broken down Wade and a mostly aging supporting cast. 4 straight trips to the finals took it's toll at the end. In hindsight, the Bulls breaking up in '98 was the best thing ever for their legacy. Or else they would've looked a lot like the Heat had they faced the Spurs in '99.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Feb 16, 2015 -> 12:04 AM) He deserves criticism for the loss to the Mavericks. Last year he played really well against the Spurs and the Heat lost because they couldn't defend the Spurs at all. There's nothing LeBron could have done to change the result of that series. This. You could replace LeBron with '91 MJ or '00 Shaq and the Heat still get dusted by the Spurs. They were that good.

Kyle Korver is the greatest shooter in nba history.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Feb 15, 2015 -> 09:24 PM) Rose has never been an efficient scorer. He doesn't shoot higher than 45% for a season Well, good luck getting by LeBron, let alone the western conference champion, being that inefficient with a 31.7 usage rate.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Feb 15, 2015 -> 08:55 PM) Until the end of the season. Rose has flipped the switch since the new year started and nobody has been noticing. He's shooting 41% from the field and 32.5% from 3 and getting to the line just over 3 times per game for a ts% of .488 in '15. For a point of reference, old, fat, unathletic MJ, his last year with the Wizards, had a ts% of 49.1.

QUOTE (Boogua @ Feb 15, 2015 -> 08:48 PM) I always thought guys like KG and Robinson had more trouble in the playoffs because they were big men that weren't true post players. Relying on shooting makes things harder in the playoffs. This is a good point. For all the nostalgia over 90's centers. Other than Shaq, who played like a truly dominant post guy? Certainly not Robinson or Ewing. Hakeem to a lesser degree. But all these guys were shooting a lot of jumpers.

QUOTE (SleepyWhiteSox @ Feb 15, 2015 -> 08:40 PM) The Admiral had actual skill to go along with athleticism And in today's world, he'd still be labeled a soft, underachieving choker. LeBron gets s*** for not taking the 2010 Cavs, a team with Mo Williams as his second option, to a title.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Feb 15, 2015 -> 08:23 PM) Just wait Wait until what?

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Feb 15, 2015 -> 08:22 PM) He wasn't as good as Hakeem or Shaq, but few are. It didn't help that Hakeem punked him in the playoffs (he was just as good as Olajuwon in the regular season). His teams also sucked until they got Duncan. He was considerably better than Dwight. Being better than Dwight was not my point. Robinson routinely under-performed when it mattered. Think about if twitter was around in 1995 after getting bent-over by Hakeem the way he did. It'd be brutal.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Feb 15, 2015 -> 08:17 PM) Westbrook is taking over now Remember when Rose/Westbrook was a debate? Westbrook is the Shaq of pgs.

I LOVE the nba we have today. But I can't wait for the day the conferences are more balanced. When the west can come with Durant, Westbrook, Paul, Dirk, Lillard off the bench? My goodness. That's just not fair.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Feb 15, 2015 -> 08:06 PM) I'm speaking more about the playoffs. He was arguably one of the best regular season players of all time, but he repeated lost to guys like Hakeem, Barkley and Malone in the playoffs. If Twitter, etc, had been around in the 90's - Robinson would've been roasted the same way people roast Dwight today. He was a great player. But he was lacking quite a bit compared to other greats of his era.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Feb 15, 2015 -> 07:47 PM) I've probably gone on this rant before, but I shudder to think what David Robinson would do in an era with fewer good centers. I mean look at some of this s***... He wouldn't do much more (if any) than he did during his time. With no illegal defense/zone defense you can do things with post guys you couldn't in 1994. He'd be great. But if you think he'd average nearly 30 you're crazy.

QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Feb 15, 2015 -> 06:38 PM) I can agree to that. But the last champs prove that fundamentals will always be an integral part of good basketball and IMO, more important than freakish raw athletic ability, aside from Leonard, who else on the Spurs would anyone consider athletically gifted? Even on those dynasty Bulls aside from Jordan and Pippen and maybe Grant and an older Rodman, I'd be hardpressed to call anyone else an elite athlete. You're right though, a combination of great athleticism and a decent skillset has a higher level than flat footed elite fundamentals guys, it's just infuriating in my eyes that a player like DHoward can look like a doofus inside with his horrible low post footwork. Olajuwon, never known for his elite athleticism, would destroy Howard prime vs prime. I think I would take above average athleticism combined with an elite skillset... Hakeem is one of the top 10-12 players ever. And you underestimate how athletic he was in his youth/peak.

QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Feb 15, 2015 -> 04:42 PM) Being called a Jordan jocker by someone who named himself Jordan4Life, doe True, there's a much bigger emphasis on athleticism in the NBA than before but there is also a noticeable drop in fundamental skills. You have a bunch of guys in the league today who can run and jump out of the building but do pretty much nothing else. What I want to say, and I've had these discussions on other hoop forums, is that while athletes in general do get bigger and faster with modern sports training and medicine, it doesn't necessarily make them better basketball players. Someone like Larry Bird will be great no matter when he plays because of the high hoops IQ and the elite skillset he had. I firml believe the 86 Celtics would manhandle the LA Clippers if they played a 7 game series. Also, athletic freaks with a great skillset like Wilt, Shaq, MJ or LeBron will always be an outlier, every generation produces that one player who has the combination of great athleticism and great skillset. Just because you can run really fast and jump through the roof doesn't mean you're actually a good NBA player... And on the other side you had guys with these "fundamental" skills that couldn't play dead back in the 80's and 90's because they were lacking everywhere else. You'll always have scrubs or guys that can't play no matter the era. But give me the physically gifted, athletic freaks with the higher ceiling over the fundamental dudes with a limited ceiling all day, every day. Of course, ideally, you'd like a combination of both.

QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Feb 15, 2015 -> 02:48 PM) By 2025, every small guard will be a better than Jordan, fowards like LeBron will be a dime a dozen and centers like Shaq will be the norm. They'll be taking off from the three point line for dunks. Just like in the modern age, guys like KLove will be rendered useless, what hope does he have to pull down rebounds against such athletic freaks? Steve Nash type players won't win MVPs since he won his MVPs like 50 years ago, Paul Pierce is so lucky he wasn't born in 2000... Jordan*jocker*alert!!! Extreme hyperbole on your part for some reason. Nobody suggested any of what you said here. But the fact of the matter is the league as a whole dwarfs the 80's, 90's, s***, even the early 2000's from an athleticism standpoint. As training methods, medicine, etc, continue to improve/advance, it'll be even crazier 10 years from now. That's all I was saying.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Feb 14, 2015 -> 11:27 PM) I love when we get spectacular dunks that don't need props. These athletes today are just incredible. I don't want to think about what they're gonna be like in 2025.

Lavine. Zach Lavine.

For the college basketball crowd - as we all know, I detest college hoops. But I've been watching A lot of D'Angelo Russell. Is this dude for real. He can f***in' ball from what I can see. He put a crossover on this scrub from MSU that I've never seen before.

Cleveland murdering the Heat. Funny how teams either go lotto or become completely irrelevant once LeBron leaves.

Again, Harden trade=one of the worst in nba history.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Feb 9, 2015 -> 06:59 AM) Barring injury, this kid might hit better than Frank, IMO. He won't necessarily get the same career numbers, because he got a later start in the bigs. But we will be looking at several MVP type seasons.

Yeah, this thread needs to be locked and banished. s*** got out of control. Do your thing, brother Q.

James Harden for Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb, and picks has now got to be one of the biggest ripoffs in nba history. It's him or Curry (with LeBron lurking) for MVP at this point.