CanOfCorn

What if Jamar is found innocent? Does that change anyone's mind? And before you go a-flamin' and say, "How the hell can that happen?!?!" I've got two words for you...O-J.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Feb 21, 2007 -> 03:00 PM) This is what they are removing for good reason. If you can give me something comparable other than naming professional sports, then you have an argument. I understand that the Seminole or Ute tribe isn't against it, but if one is wrong, why aren't they all wrong? Would you say that those are both caricatures, too?

QUOTE(thedoctor @ Feb 21, 2007 -> 12:18 PM) nine out of ten times i'd agree with you. i just think that at this point it's weber's responsibility to throw down the gauntlet in terms of what is acceptable and what is not. it can be argued that he's been weak on punishments in the past and that contributed to this incident. i have a hard time drawing a straight-line relationship between the two, but you can make an effective argument that way. i also think some of this decision may not even be in weber's hands. guenther has seen what has gone on in the program over the past year and he must be concerned. i wouldn't be surprised if he's already told weber how this is going to end. To me, coaches are father-figures. They should do everything in their power to help someone get on the right track. If anyone decides to dump Jamar, it should be Guenther. Ultimately, he's the one who should make that decision, with the coaching staff's input, but I would hope the coach would try to stick up for the player. Hearing 2 felony counts is scary, but I doubt that he'll be found guilty on both. I could see a plea happening with maybe some jail time and LOTS of community service and probably a license revocation for a couple of years.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Feb 20, 2007 -> 09:12 PM) Give it 5 years, the incoming students wont give a crap. Pardon me if I'm saddened by this. The Chief stirred my emotions from the first time I saw him in person in 1984. I never thought it was anything but respectful. Of course, I am a white jewish kid from Skokie. To me, there's a very fine line. Chief Wahoo, Redskins, Indians...bad. Why, because those ARE caricatures. If there wasn't ever a Chief, the Illini name would be able to stand, as the NCAA has allowed. BUT, there is nothing but reverence for the Chief. No baby kissing. No mugging for the camera. No speaking when dressed as the Chief. I guess my point is...if an institution is doing it's best to try to make it as reverential as possible, why couldn't the remaining tribes try to find a middle ground. Maybe, in exchange for allowing it to continue...the Chief loses the headdress, has to spend up to a year on the reservation with the tribe, learning customs, authentic dances, etc. In return, the University supplies a certain amount of scholarships, maybe does some research on issues that impact Native Americans, possibly even opening some sort of research facility on the res to supply jobs?

As a sad follower...this is a kid who decided to be ridiculously stupid one night and almost killed his teammate. I don't think you dump him and leave him out to dry. The staff are the adults, the players are the kids. You wouldn't dump your child out on the street, would you? I'm not saying he should ever play hoops for the Illini again, but there has got to be a way to at least offer Jamar a chance to redeem himself without completely turning your back on him. When I was at U of I, there was a party on the fourth or fifth floor in one of those courtyard apartments and a VERY drunk freshman was sitting on the rail and fell backwards, killing himself. The students that threw the party were not kicked out of school. They were sentenced to do community service and I think, if I remember correctly, one withdrew on his own. As I said before, yank his scholarship, pull him off the team, but don't kick him out of school. If he EVER wants to play for the Illini again, he is going to have to earn it himself. If not, then, he'll disappear. But, turning your back on a kid making mistakes that many people his age have made is very rough. Call me a bleeding heart. Call me a follower. It's my opinion, FWIW.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Feb 20, 2007 -> 08:04 PM) I have a free ice cream coupon i've been saving for an appropriate occasion. How's about somewhere in Nebraska? It's kinda in-between.

I'd only give him half a vote. See you all in hell.

Interesting. The Sox JUST reported to camp, haven't played a game and many of you are freaking out. Is it possible...just POSSIBLE that Erstad could have even a good season? Y'know, last chance kinda thing? Or that Anderson knocks the snot out of the ball? Or that Podsednik, when healthy, can be a .350 OBP guy? Relax. They haven't even started to pitch to each other yet. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with trying Iguchi in the 7th spot again. Why not? Try it. It's not like his job depends on it.

QUOTE(Kid Gleason @ Feb 20, 2007 -> 05:26 PM) So, anybody else want to join me and say they really don't give a rats tuckus about Britney, Kevin, or any other thing involved with them and their whole freaky and pathetic lives? Kids included? We can all go for ice cream and not think about these morons. If you're buying, I'm in! /Britney Shears career

If Weber has the support of the AD...and the AD has the support of the President, then I see no reason why Jamar could come back. Think of the story it would make if they gave him a chance to clean up his act and let him make the most of it. Of course it could backfire, but he's 19. I would imagine all of you at 19 (if you're there yet) did something stupid. If he was in blackout at the time...it's no wonder he didn't call 911. Stupid, absolutely. But young enough to change, absolutely.

I hope there's a new wrinkle in the Three-In-One where there is a moment of silence followed by a loud "Chiiiiieeeeeeeffffff!" before and after the Alma Mater is sung. They may have taken the symbol, but he should never be forgotten.

QUOTE(longshot7 @ Feb 20, 2007 -> 01:44 PM) People have said everything I would have posted about how awful the Chief is and how the nickname "Blackhawks" isn't. But, this bears mentioning: The word "alumni" is a plural word. You are not an alumni. You are an alum. Male = alumnus Female = alumna

My take: Let him stay in school, but suspend him for the year, and that includes his scholarship. If, he goes to AA meetings, does some serious community service, and moves on campus or with a Asst. coach and meets regularly with his probation officer and/or serves his time, then you give him a half scholarship for his senior year and let him play. If he won't agree to those terms...division 3 is a calling, Jamar. But completely turning your back on a 19 year old kid is a little rough. Offer up a solution, even if it's more harsh than mine...but let Jamar make the choice and be a man.

I'm not too worried about the 5th starter. Floyd has gone from the pressure of being the savior of the Phillies rotation for years to come, to maaayyyybe being the 5th starter on the White Sox AND with other pitchers breathing down his neck. Now, if he doesn't show anything...then you send him down. Bullpen is a lot of heat, but a lot of question marks. I've seen Aardsma pitch in college and if he can harness his pitches, he's lights out. He shut down Stanford in '03. I think Erstad is a great pickup. Not necessarily because of his play, but because of his attitude. Yeah, he may hurt himself on a play, but it's not pulling up lame lollygagging to first or falling out of a hot tub. It's because he goes all out to catch a fly. Or pulls a hammy trying to stretch a double to a triple. So, even if he's out for an extended period of time, I can see him on the other players to hustle. I don't know if that's true, that's just the kind of player he seems to be. And like someone else said, aggressive doesn't have to be team speed. Aggressive is going first to third or second to home. It's taking someone out at 2nd to prevent a double play. It's seeing a pitcher ignoring you and stealing second, even if you aren't the fastest person on the field. It's running over the catcher on a close play at the plate. It's throwing a little chin music to someone crowding the plate. All aggressive, all not having much to do with speed.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Feb 19, 2007 -> 01:54 PM) The difference is they are under contract and supposedly can't look to see what's out there until that contract ends. I don't see where it is bad business to take advantage of exclusive negotiating rights for your better employees while you have them. They did with Buehrle...last ASB. Maybe it was lowball, but they tried. And, I think that after the Belle contract, Reinsdorf and the rest of the White Sox Board of Directors are leery of setting market value for anyone. And honestly, again, I don't blame them. With what the Flubs, Giants and Mets have done in recent years...whew, I wouldn't want to set market rate. If Buehrle, Dye or any other Sox free agent can get more...more power to ya. The White Sox will be around a LOT longer than any of these players will be. We all rooted for the Southside Hitmen in the 70's (well, maybe just old folk), the Winning Ugly teams of the 80's, the Young Guns of the 90's and the Grinders of the 00's. And we will ALL root for the teams of the 10's, 20's, etc. This is one year, let's enjoy it and worry about next year, next year. We aren't the GM, we aren't the manager, let's see how they do before we crucify them. Some b****ed about Magglio. Some b****ed about El Caballo. Etc. Etc. Etc. Foresight is NOT 20/20.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Feb 19, 2007 -> 01:26 PM) While I don't work under a contract, if I asked for a raise and was told I was free to look elsewhere, and I went looking for a better paying position, if I had to go through the process of looking elsewhere and then got a better offer and my current employer said they would match it, I personally would tell him to f*** off. It would be an insult to me, a total lack of respect, that some place where I have invested a lot of time and effort would only pay me what I evidently was worth (if they are willing to match) if someone I hadn't worked for were to offer me more. Shouldn't you do that anyway? I know I do. It makes sense to always look. And since there is a finite number of employers for these guys, I would imagine this is more prevalent than you think. It's not always about respect. It's about business. And if my employer was upfront with me...then what can I say? There are too many factors to say..."they're disrespecting me." Again, at the end of the day, the White Sox are a business, not an XBox game. And it's prudent to see what's out there from both sides. HOw do we know that there isn't another 2005 Jermaine Dye out there? Someone a bit under the radar, but a big talent that won't command as much money? The 2005 White Sox were blessed that everything came together...that doesn't mean it's going to happen again...just look 10 miles to the north of 35th and Shields.

I don't know how many people on this board are out of school and work full-time...but many times I have heard someone go in and ask about raises and the response comes back, "You are free to look elsewhere." AND, I would be happy if that were the case. That means they respect me. That doesn't say to me that they wouldn't match or exceed the offer, that says that they don't to limit me. Maybe that's optomistic, but so what? Sure, they could think I won't find anything better. Or, they'll just let me go because I'm replaceable. But, the decision is left up to me...the person who does the work. Ya never know, I just might take less to stay, because I like it here. And I have no problem with Kenny being honest, as long as he told the players first before it went to the media.

Kenny doesn't want to set the market. He wants to see what the market will bear, talk to the powers that be and then see if it's worth matching or exceeding that mark to keep that player. I see nothing wrong with that from a business standpoint. I like that Kenny said this. But he said it to his players FIRST and didn't out them in the press. Which is different than the past. And, the White Sox are more than willing to pay. They like to find players that other teams want to get rid of, either because they feel that player is finished (Thome) or wants to get out from under their salary (Vazquez). Relax people. Why are we all worrying about 2008 when 2007 is right around the corner? Let's enjoy this year and then worry about next after the White Sox bring home the championship again. Winning conquers all.

QUOTE(Tmar @ Feb 16, 2007 -> 02:26 PM) My testicle was the size of a can of corn. What are you going to do now DAMMIT!!!

QUOTE(Kid Gleason @ Feb 16, 2007 -> 12:48 PM) Grohl, though a nice guy maybe, sold his soul to corporate rock in a desire to make more money than he did with Nirvana and to be more successful than Nirvana. Or so it would seem. I think that is the key here. I think he wanted to separate himself from all that. Maybe he "sold his soul," but maybe it wasn't for money, but to distance himself from the grunge Nirvana years and be his own man. And the Queens of the Stone Age CD he played the skins on was the best music they have put out. Maybe Foo has sold out, but Grohl is still damn talented.

QUOTE(hi8is @ Feb 16, 2007 -> 02:01 PM) when i was 15 years old my right testicle was the size of a mango I will never eat mangos again.

QUOTE(Kid Gleason @ Feb 16, 2007 -> 02:12 PM) Maybe on the last day of his appearance they can have the Chief standing centerfield, have a white man walk up to him and hand him a blanket. He can then die from Small Pox and be carried off the field. Or would that be too authentic for the mascot??? I think the two students should be shipped off to the University of Oklahoma.

Wouldn't it also depend on playoff exposure? For instance, if Buehrle does re-sign with the White Sox and the Sox go on to play in another 6 post-seasons with a World Series or two in there and Buehrle is consistently our best pitcher...wouldn't that play into hof selection? Not sure, just asking. But, I think no one on teh current roster.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Feb 16, 2007 -> 12:27 PM) Wrong. The closest decendants of the Illini are the Peoria Tribe. I believe the Peoria has about-faced on this topic in recent years.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Feb 16, 2007 -> 02:23 AM) again I ask...did he have to rant about it? He could have just as easily said "I want nothing to do with them" and left. It's vague but suggestive, and it ends everything. Or he could have realized how hateful his words were and he could have kept his prejudice to himself, and just said "No comment." Which is basically saying the same thing. Yes, he SHOULD have done that, but he didn't. The opposite side of the spectrum is Alex Rodriguez. He measures every answer and the people and the press come pretty close to crucifying him for it. He's too worried about his image. He's not interesting because he doesn't say anything inflammatory. Hardaway is an ignorant bigot. BUT, he was asked a question and he answered it honestly. Now, he has to live with the consequences of that. I can't fault him for saying what he felt, but I can ignore him from this point forward. PS...Mel Gibson was drunk and ranting and Michael Richards just flew off the handle. No one asked them anything, they did it on their own.